SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Moderna's vaccine appears to be easier to store as it remains stable at minus 20C for up to six months and can be kept in a standard fridge for up to a month.

that's a nice additional bonus
 
The other good thing about Moderna results is that there were zero serious cases in vaccinated arm (Pfizer press release didn’t give any info on severity)

The big issues we still need to know are:

a) duration of protection (will be months/years before this becomes clear)

b) are the vaccines preventing infection or just preventing illness (we’ve no idea about this yet, for either vaccine)
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The other good thing about Moderna results is that there were zero serious cases in vaccinated arm (Pfizer press release didn’t give any info on severity)

The big issues we still need to know are:

a) duration of protection (will be months/years before this becomes clear)

b) are the vaccines preventing infection or just preventing illness (we’ve no idea about this yet, for either vaccine)
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I have a feeling that b won’t be binary. I’ll be surprised if the vaccine has no effect on transmission whatsoever.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The other good thing about Moderna results is that there were zero serious cases in vaccinated arm (Pfizer press release didn’t give any info on severity)

The big issues we still need to know are:

a) duration of protection (will be months/years before this becomes clear)

b) are the vaccines preventing infection or just preventing illness (we’ve no idea about this yet, for either vaccine)
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Yet again the long covid group has been ignored. They are suffering because their bodies are severely overreacting to this virus for months on end. Due to this, almost wilful, oversight all these vaccines could add a much larger minority into this suffering group by next year.
 
Dumbstar said:
Yet again the long covid group has been ignored. They are suffering because their bodies are severely overreacting to this virus for months on end. Due to this, almost wilful, oversight all these vaccines could put a much larger minority into this suffering group by next year.
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A vaccine causing side effects similar to long-covid would be captured in the phase 3 safety data. Also a vaccine is not the virus, we still don’t understand the underlying cause of long-COVID. Are there recorded instances of vaccines causing ME/CFS? Not that long-COVID is necessarily the same.
 
Tony Babangida said:
I have a feeling that b won’t be binary. I’ll be surprised if the vaccine has no effect on transmission whatsoever.
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Yeah, definitely. I heard one of the BioNTech guys saying that he predicts 50% efficacy at reducing transmission for their vaccine. Which would be decent but probably rules out viral eradication as a realistic goal.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Yeah, definitely. I heard one of the BioNTech guys saying that he predicts 50% efficacy at reducing transmission for their vaccine. Which would be decent but probably rules out viral eradication as a realistic goal.
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Global eradication is a long term project anyway. Don’t need a sterilising vaccine in the first wave.
 
Looking forward to the Oxford results now. Hopefully also encouraging, as from a selfish point of view the UK and Aus really need that one to work.
 
Moderna’s news is the real gamechanger. The storage temperatures means it will fit in logistically within existing primary care network and other vaccine delivery systems.
 
Wolverine said:
Moderna’s news is the real gamechanger. The storage temperatures means it will fit in logistically within existing primary care network and other vaccine delivery systems.
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Massive game changer as it sounds like it can even work for villages in hot climate countries, so will help places like Mexico, India or Africa.
If their results are robust, it’s perhaps more useful than the Pzier one.

Anyone know what the Zeneca/Oxford storage specs are?
 
jojojo said:
Just to close this loop. I had a call from the Novavax trial team on Saturday. Another set of medical history questions and an opportunity to ask them any questions.

I did ask about the placebo group given the possible roll out of an (approved) vaccine in the first half of next year. The trial protocol says that if there's a vaccine being rolled out to my age group, then I can ask for my trial status - and just return to the NHS appointments list if I'm in the placebo group.

Not surprisingly, it's something they've had to take seriously, particularly since the Pfizer news. So, I'm now scheduled for a mini-medical and Jab 1 (of something) on Wednesday and Jab 2 three weeks later.
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When are those results for the novavax due to be published?

thanks for your participation to help us all!
 
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Tony Babangida said:
A vaccine causing side effects similar to long-covid would be captured in the phase 3 safety data. Also a vaccine is not the virus, we still don’t understand the underlying cause of long-COVID. Are there recorded instances of vaccines causing ME/CFS? Not that long-COVID is necessarily the same.
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These are good questions. Not sure if any vaccine trials had any assumptions, considerations or entry/exit criteria for long covid (not the same as CFS as you say). Why? Because it's so new or just not worth considering right now. That's why I was wondering if there was any medical data that long covid was considered. I'm not finding anything with Google.

We don't know what triggers long covid. Could be a heavy dose from a sufferer passing it on, or a very minute RNA in a vaccine, for example.
 
Dumbstar said:
These are good questions. Not sure if any vaccine trials had any assumptions, considerations or entry/exit criteria for long covid (not the same as CFS as you say). Why? Because it's so new or just not worth considering right now. That's why I was wondering if there was any medical data that long covid was considered. I'm not finding anything with Google.

We don't know what triggers long covid. Could be a heavy dose from a sufferer passing it on, or a very minute RNA in a vaccine, for example.
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Well the important first step is getting infected with SARS-COV-2. Which these vaccines will (almost certainly) make less likely. So I’m not seeing what your problem with them is.
 
Dumbstar said:
These are good questions. Not sure if any vaccine trials had any assumptions, considerations or entry/exit criteria for long covid (not the same as CFS as you say). Why? Because it's so new or just not worth considering right now. That's why I was wondering if there was any medical data that long covid was considered. I'm not finding anything with Google.

We don't know what triggers long covid. Could be a heavy dose from a sufferer passing it on, or a very minute RNA in a vaccine, for example.
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You don’t need to worry about developing a long covid like syndrome from the vaccine. If that somehow happened it would fail the phase III trial.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Well the important first step is getting infected with SARS-COV-2. Which these vaccines will (almost certainly) make less likely. So I’m not seeing what your problem with them is.
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It may be my lack of understanding of how vaccines work. What I'm asking is, could the minor effects of injecting a vaccine (headaches, sore arm, slight temperature, anything else?) become full blown long covid symptoms because of the vaccine itself and no other exposure?
 
Tony Babangida said:
You don’t need to worry about developing a long covid like syndrome from the vaccine. If that somehow happened it would fail the phase III trial.
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Cool that's good to know. Will there be some medical data to back up that long covid was considered as a pass criteria, and passed? I'm guessing not. However, I will end my questioning here as I can see the thread being derailed.
 
Still disappointed that press releases for these mRNA vaccines haven't been supplemented with scientific publications that we can go over.
Literally we are trying to procure these vaccines and plan/reorganise healthcare infrastructure without peer-reviewed publication review. Not good science.

Wonder if the delay in Oxford''s publication is down to them wanting to do things more properly. Here's Richard Horton of the Lancet and what he said earlier about Pfizer (note the Lancet published phase I and II RCT results of the Oxford vaccine back in july)

 
Dumbstar said:
It may be my lack of understanding of how vaccines work. What I'm asking is, could the minor effects of injecting a vaccine (headaches, sore arm, slight temperature, anything else?) become full blown long covid symptoms because of the vaccine itself and no other exposure?
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I guess you're visualising the vaccine triggering a cytokine storm or something similar?

That is the kind of thing a Phase3 trial would see and unless it was experienced in tiny numbers (certainly below 1:10,000 participants) it would spot even a single incident very easily.
 
COVID symptom - I’ve lost my body odour. I thought it was because my scent of smell was gone but it’s back now. I’ve not worn deodorant since getting COVID.

Has anyone heard of this symptom? Pretty cool symptom to have. Hoping this one sticks!
 
Wolverine said:
Still disappointed that press releases for these mRNA vaccines haven't been supplemented with scientific publications that we can go over.
Literally we are trying to procure these vaccines and plan/reorganise healthcare infrastructure without peer-reviewed publication review. Not good science.

Wonder if the delay in Oxford''s publication is down to them wanting to do things more properly. Here's Richard Horton of the Lancet and what he said earlier about Pfizer (note the Lancet published phase I and II RCT results of the Oxford vaccine back in july)

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It’s insider trading. Rampant and unchecked because everyone is focused on outcome and not process.

I’m not saying the Science isn’t there. I am saying people are making Fcuk loads of money by buying stock, then selling after a surge linked to PR. I know it’s happening. I know people that are doing it. You can control and influence media messaging. It’s harder with Science literature.

It’s wrong. But nobody cares.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
It’s insider trading. Rampant and unchecked because everyone is focused on outcome and not process.

I’m not saying the Science isn’t there. I am saying people are making Fcuk loads of money by buying stock, then selling after a surge linked to PR. I know it’s happening. I know people that are doing it. You can control and influence media messaging. It’s harder with Science literature.

It’s wrong. But nobody cares.
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Yeah I read that the Pfizer CEO sold a whole load of stock off after the announcement. Its not a good look and morally wrong in my opinion, erodes trust in the companies. I don’t think it’s entirely motivated by that, there were always points in the trials where they could read the data early. Allows them to apply for early use authorisations and get the vaccines out quicker.
 
jojojo said:
I guess you're visualising the vaccine triggering a cytokine storm or something similar?

That is the kind of thing a Phase3 trial would see and unless it was experienced in tiny numbers (certainly below 1:10,000 participants) it would spot even a single incident very easily.
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Yes, thanks I guess I was bit too uneducated in this to have understood the message earlier. That's a relief as being with a child still suffering heavily with covid after 8 months (literally has not gone to school!) I'm a sceptic for myself and my other kids until there's full proof.
 
Tony Babangida said:
Yeah I read that the Pfizer CEO sold a whole load of stock off after the announcement. Its not a good look and morally wrong in my opinion, erodes trust in the companies. I don’t think it’s entirely motivated by that, there were always points in the trials where they could read the data early. Allows them to apply for early use authorisations and get the vaccines out quicker.
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This is the society that they built for us.
 
Ironically the COVE trial for moderna regarding this vaccine was actually funded for by Operation Warp Speed (unlike pfizer). Trump could have just waited a bit and would have actually not lied for once with his bragging.
 
Dumbstar said:
Cool that's good to know. Will there be some medical data to back up that long covid was considered as a pass criteria, and passed? I'm guessing not. However, I will end my questioning here as I can see the thread being derailed.
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I think long covid or similar symptoms would be identified in the same way as any other side effect or failure. In the Phase 3 trial I'm joining they call you back in for check-ups, two weeks after the second injection, then 3 months after, then 6 months, and then 12 months. Those cover blood tests, basic medical check-up and a face-to-face interview. Plus, there's a reporting app that they ask you to use to report how you're feeling and any symptoms. If you report something alarming (or get covid) that trips another face to face meeting. There's a lot of data feeding the process.

For the group that did Phase1/Phase2 trials on these first Pfizer/Moderna vaccines - they'll be 3/6 months past the second dose date before the drugs go for their emergency review, and the manufacturers will have a couple of months of Phase 3 mass data as well.
 
Dumbstar said:
Yes, thanks I guess I was bit too uneducated in this to have understood the message earlier. That's a relief as being with a child still suffering heavily with covid after 8 months (literally has not gone to school!) I'm a sceptic for myself and my other kids until there's full proof.
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Sorry to hear that mate. Can understand your concern about long-COVID.
 
Dumbstar said:
Yes, thanks I guess I was bit too uneducated in this to have understood the message earlier. That's a relief as being with a child still suffering heavily with covid after 8 months (literally has not gone to school!) I'm a sceptic for myself and my other kids until there's full proof.
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Sorry to hear about your youngster. I don't think they've actually started looking seriously at the under 18s as possible vaccine recipients. I doubt we'll see any vaccine approved for kids in the next year, and we'll know a lot more about the virus and the vaccine by then. The risk/benefit argument is very different to the calculation that makes sense for older adults.
 
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