I don't mean to join a pile-on here if there is one, but this seems like appalling management.
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
I don't mean to join a pile-on here if there is one, but this seems like appalling management.
The main reason Australia and New Zealand have got it so well under control is that we have virtually locked borders and a compulsory 14 police supervised quarantine on arrival.
Basic surgical masks work to reduce the spread if the person wearing it has Covid as it.
I have a mask for exercising -- its to simulate high altitude training. Supposedly designed to improve your endurance by building up lung capacity.
Transmission in to and out of each country needs to be restricted otherwise nowhere will be able to control it as reinfection will occur from outside. Just because the UK have made a total mess of dealing with Corona doesn't mean you shouldn't take sensible measures.
In any case nobody with half a brain is getting in an aircraft if they don't have to at the moment.
Monstrous and immoral. Often with added neo-liberal evil.
This is true, she (and I assume they) meant in terms of the person receiving it though. It's effective if everyone does it, but if it's just one person in a mask it won't protect them anymore than if they aren't wearing a mask. That's what I was told anyway.
I can't believe how irresponsible people are being in the US and Europe (and probably elsewhere). We are down to a handful of infections and apart from having to police the beaches early on people have been mostly very happy to stay at home and socially distance etc and still want to open up only very slowly to avoid a second wave.
Hard to come back from that post.
Freedom...
I’d love to see how these cnuts would react if we actually imposed a lockdown like Italy did.
How Boris Johnson Sided With "Doves" Over "Hawks" In His Government To Slow The UK's Exit From Lockdown
'Cabinet “doves” have claimed victory in a month-long battle that has raged at the top of government, securing a more cautious easing of coronavirus lockdown measures than sought by “hawks” who had wanted a rapid lifting of restrictions. Ahead of Boris Johnson’s address to the nation on Sunday evening, where he will give details of a “roadmap” for the phased relaxation of lockdown measures, BuzzFeed News can reveal details of the deeply politicised and at times heated debate across Downing Street, cabinet and the wider Conservative party that has taken place behind the scenes since the PM was discharged from hospital.
It can be revealed that:
• Some senior Number 10 advisers, cabinet ministers, senior civil servants and “a clear majority” of Tory MPs had initially lobbied for a “rival” exit strategy, privately arguing that the lockdown should be lifted more quickly than Johnson will announce tomorrow.
• But when Johnson returned after being hospitalised with the virus, he chose to back another group of Downing Street aides, senior ministers and officials who had called for a “safety first” approach. His chief aide Dominic Cummings’ view has also moved in favour of this position over the last few weeks.
• Most of the lockdown measures will remain in place after Sunday, with piecemeal changes to the number of times people can leave their homes and head to open spaces, followed by a staggered lifting of other restrictions, reopening schools and the wider economy over the following weeks if key data improves.
• Senior ministers have expressed fury at what one described as “weeks of insane briefing” to the media, accusing government hawks of trying to force Johnson into relaxing more measures, and claiming some newspapers were pursuing an anti-lockdown agenda because of fears about sales.'
More:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-sided-doves-over-hawks-lockdown
'Cabinet “doves” have claimed victory in a month-long battle that has raged at the top of government, securing a more cautious easing of coronavirus lockdown measures than sought by “hawks” who had wanted a rapid lifting of restrictions. Ahead of Boris Johnson’s address to the nation on Sunday evening, where he will give details of a “roadmap” for the phased relaxation of lockdown measures, BuzzFeed News can reveal details of the deeply politicised and at times heated debate across Downing Street, cabinet and the wider Conservative party that has taken place behind the scenes since the PM was discharged from hospital.
It can be revealed that:
• Some senior Number 10 advisers, cabinet ministers, senior civil servants and “a clear majority” of Tory MPs had initially lobbied for a “rival” exit strategy, privately arguing that the lockdown should be lifted more quickly than Johnson will announce tomorrow.
• But when Johnson returned after being hospitalised with the virus, he chose to back another group of Downing Street aides, senior ministers and officials who had called for a “safety first” approach. His chief aide Dominic Cummings’ view has also moved in favour of this position over the last few weeks.
• Most of the lockdown measures will remain in place after Sunday, with piecemeal changes to the number of times people can leave their homes and head to open spaces, followed by a staggered lifting of other restrictions, reopening schools and the wider economy over the following weeks if key data improves.
• Senior ministers have expressed fury at what one described as “weeks of insane briefing” to the media, accusing government hawks of trying to force Johnson into relaxing more measures, and claiming some newspapers were pursuing an anti-lockdown agenda because of fears about sales.'
More:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/boris-johnson-sided-doves-over-hawks-lockdown
Interesting report. Following quote below (came later in article) also captures how I feel.
“We ditched herd immunity when we got spooked by the Imperial report, by which point the virus had already spread and it was probably too late to get the benefits of lockdown. Now we want to leave lockdown but we have no herd immunity. So we have a vast death toll as well as the perfect storm for an awful second wave,” the MP argued.
You get what you vote for I guess. Stunningly incompetent.
WTF?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...d-19-death-rate-Europe-wicked-pretend-do.html
What a horrible article - it absolves the tories from any damage to the NHS and somehow worms the way out of the facts about our deaths.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...d-19-death-rate-Europe-wicked-pretend-do.html
What a horrible article - it absolves the tories from any damage to the NHS and somehow worms the way out of the facts about our deaths.
Covidiots in Australia
https://www.9news.com.au/national/c...victoria/7c2f0133-d784-4fc6-8361-bb6652a2f4eb
Anti-vaxxers, Bill Gates/5G conspiracy theorists and all driven by white supremacists. Not that big but .....
https://www.9news.com.au/national/c...victoria/7c2f0133-d784-4fc6-8361-bb6652a2f4eb
Anti-vaxxers, Bill Gates/5G conspiracy theorists and all driven by white supremacists. Not that big but .....
Still a small group at least. Here it's tens of thousands of people now. Really weird mix of people as well. No white supremacists but certainly right-wing conspiracy theorists but also a lot of anti-fascist people, social media influencers and even reputable scientists. There has been a worrying number of attacks on journalists as well at these event. On May Day a camera team from a popular satirical show covering a demonstration in Berlin was ambushed and physically attacked by a group of 15-20 leftists which, as evidence suggests, was pre-planned.
I wish I was surprised but I'm not by our media anymore, complete cnuts.
Looks like England are going much more gung ho than Wales. The only changes here are exercising more than once a day, garden centres able to open etc, nothing mentioned about cafes or pubs or meeting pals in the park.
I thought the Government backtracked on these comments and said there wont be much of a release?
There seems to be a lot of mixed messages coming out. Personally we should do what they have done in Scotland and Wales.
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Scotland won’t be using the Stay Alert message, in Wales the message is still Stay at Home. Not confusing at all.
Also, Stay Alert is not a great message for people who suffer from anxiety.
Also, Stay Alert is not a great message for people who suffer from anxiety.
Wonder if he had two letters written?
Fortunately for me the managerial metrics for which I've been judged over the last several years (including employee retention) don't include the opinions of Redcafe members! Phew.
Now let's stay on topic.
It doesn’t matter what the government says if the media are posting those headlines and the BBC are filming street parties/celebrating them. It completely undermines the government and the lockdown they have imposed. We can argue about how poorly the government has handled the situation but instead of trying to be the better people in a situation like that, the media have decided to join them and a minority of the UK has too. Doing these things just gives more people the confidence to go and do what they want.
The lines about doing things together to beat the virus are laughable when the media blasts a professor for breaking the rules but a day-few days later decide to celebrate the VE nonsense/clapping for carers/freedom on Monday stuff.
We should have a tannoy on every street corner, randomly announcing "stay alert"
Those headlines were printed as a result of a calculated briefing from Downing Street. It’s important to acknowledge that, as it’s how the whole thing works.
Meanwhile here in Italy there is still debate about whether or not we can drive to the next comune to go to a proper supermarket. The cautious response of the local carabinieri seems to be "si". I have heard from one Brit who did it and although she was stopped, they were OK about it. We still have to carry our authorisation form, ID, wear a mask in the car ....
Our relaxation of lockdown isn't that relaxed, which is a good thing in my view.
Our relaxation of lockdown isn't that relaxed, which is a good thing in my view.
I’ve been saying this for a while - this is obvious - they need to get the economy moving as the money is running out.
Would a government slogan really affect someone in any way whatsoever?
Marr was interesting this morning. David Spiegelhalter, the well-regarded statistician, was lamenting the government for its “number theatre” during the daily press briefings. I agree with him, too. The general public are too consumed with the overall deaths numbers per day and it’s overwhelmed any sort of rational discussion surrounding the figures and logical next steps. It’s been reduced to: 600 people died yesterday; extend until we’re safe!
I understand the anxiety. But, it’s so much more nuanced than that, in reality. He went on to explain that there are 10 million children aged 15 and under in the UK. Two have died with COVID. He then explained that there are 17 million under 25s in the UK, 26 of which have died with COVID; many of them had underlying health conditions, too. Lockdown will have suppressed these numbers, although it’s also arguable that the virus was spreading through the community weeks and months prior to lockdown measures. I’d be interested to see the cancer and suicide death tallies for those within these age brackets for comparison.
On the other hand, 1% of 90+ people have died with COVID, which is frightening. They are, therefore, 10,000 times more at risk than younger people to the virus.
Firstly, it really highlights just how depressingly lethal this virus is to the older demographic. It reinforces, also, just how farcical the government’s (non) approach to care homes has been. Secondly, it’s important that the government emphasise to the general public that this virus isn’t particularly lethal to younger people. Yes, they can transmit the disease, and sensible measures should be implemented to reduce the spread, but there are far too many people that think their chances of dying with COVID is far higher than it really is. I’ve been speaking to parents of primary school children in recent weeks and there has been a substantial number that remarked that they were unwilling to send their children back to school upon return. It would be unprofessional to do so, so I didn’t, but the overwhelming thought that went through my head was that their child is more likely to get hit by a car outside the school gates. The government needs to engage in a far more adult conversation about the reality of this virus.
And I hate to bang on about it, but the economy really is lives. We have about 7 million people on furlough in the UK right now. I’m not sure that the general public have truly grasped just how many of those jobs will no longer exist in twelve, maybe six, months time. When they go, what do you do to replace them? I’m from a mining town. The last time an industry was disbanded, people were left to rot.
“X, Y and Z will be there when this all blows over.”
Often uttered, that is. It’s also completely wrong; uttered by those who, through no real fault of their own, have yet to truly understand the long term complexity of the situation. They say 600 deaths on the tele and fixate on that, understandably. But they’re wrong to do so. A lot of people in this country are going to be absolutely fecked, for want of a better phrase. It’s why I cringe, somewhat, when I read messages, tweets and other comments that appear to embrace the ongoing lockdown. Really, it’s a middle class luxury for many. For the disadvantaged, it’s potentially a death sentence.
I understand the anxiety. But, it’s so much more nuanced than that, in reality. He went on to explain that there are 10 million children aged 15 and under in the UK. Two have died with COVID. He then explained that there are 17 million under 25s in the UK, 26 of which have died with COVID; many of them had underlying health conditions, too. Lockdown will have suppressed these numbers, although it’s also arguable that the virus was spreading through the community weeks and months prior to lockdown measures. I’d be interested to see the cancer and suicide death tallies for those within these age brackets for comparison.
On the other hand, 1% of 90+ people have died with COVID, which is frightening. They are, therefore, 10,000 times more at risk than younger people to the virus.
Firstly, it really highlights just how depressingly lethal this virus is to the older demographic. It reinforces, also, just how farcical the government’s (non) approach to care homes has been. Secondly, it’s important that the government emphasise to the general public that this virus isn’t particularly lethal to younger people. Yes, they can transmit the disease, and sensible measures should be implemented to reduce the spread, but there are far too many people that think their chances of dying with COVID is far higher than it really is. I’ve been speaking to parents of primary school children in recent weeks and there has been a substantial number that remarked that they were unwilling to send their children back to school upon return. It would be unprofessional to do so, so I didn’t, but the overwhelming thought that went through my head was that their child is more likely to get hit by a car outside the school gates. The government needs to engage in a far more adult conversation about the reality of this virus.
And I hate to bang on about it, but the economy really is lives. We have about 7 million people on furlough in the UK right now. I’m not sure that the general public have truly grasped just how many of those jobs will no longer exist in twelve, maybe six, months time. When they go, what do you do to replace them? I’m from a mining town. The last time an industry was disbanded, people were left to rot.
“X, Y and Z will be there when this all blows over.”
Often uttered, that is. It’s also completely wrong; uttered by those who, through no real fault of their own, have yet to truly understand the long term complexity of the situation. They say 600 deaths on the tele and fixate on that, understandably. But they’re wrong to do so. A lot of people in this country are going to be absolutely fecked, for want of a better phrase. It’s why I cringe, somewhat, when I read messages, tweets and other comments that appear to embrace the ongoing lockdown. Really, it’s a middle class luxury for many. For the disadvantaged, it’s potentially a death sentence.
What money is running out exactly?
Totally and completely disgusting.
I am hopeful that the lockdown massively reduces the number of papers sold.
Especially the worst of the worst DM.
I assume that from the magic money tree we were told didn't exist a few years ago
This is a really big complaint against a point nobody is making.
Nobody wants a permanent lockdown until nobody is dying.
The government is not fit for purpose and seems To think the options are : Lockdown or just Whiteknuckle it.
There is no plan. That’s the problem.
Yea there has to be an inbetween that they arent capable of a, seeing and b, implementing
If newspaper sales plummet then the spread of news is suppressed. Is that a good thing?
I understand that newspapers are under the umbrella of media corporations, that are owned by a handful of self-interested billionaires. I think the alternative is a lot worse, sadly.
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