SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Shakesey said:
Is this crash caused by the lockdowns, the pandemic or the collective insecurities and entitlement of people? Add a bit of sensationalist, divided media and you have a clusterfeck of opinions that feed all those horrid little insecurities. We've become soft.
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Eh, I don’t think us being not “soft” would have avoided the crash.
 
Kag said:
I didn’t see a single street party in the hour I was out the house today.
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I did. Also saw one with a massive fecking bouncy castle in the front garden. Adults pissed as feck doing karaoke
 
Shakesey said:
Awesome response, thanks. The keyword, and perhaps the root of it all according to me, is FEAR. Is that fear misplaced? Overblown? Given the price we must pay... That's what I'm beginning to question. I hate the way I'm starting to think about this shite. I'm confronted by that age old question... Would I kill one person to save 5? I never thought I'd seriously consider answering it... And now I am.
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It's a false choice. Job losses are not attributed to the shutdown, they're attributed to the virus. Therefore lifting restrictions will not restore jobs/economy, defeating the virus will.
 
JPRouve said:
I'm pretty sure that this is the conclusion:


Which is a bit more nuanced and the following tweet provides a good support which shows that kids are unlikely to be the primary source of household infections but are still infectious.
Also to be truthful, I asked you the initial question because you used the exact same sentence than The Spectator did, where instead of using the larger study, referenced an anecdotal example while making a conclusion that I believe is a bit misleading.
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Then be more forthright next time.

And if you disagree with the conclusion of that study, that's fine. We know SO LITTLE about Covid-19 and its impact on children (and everyone obviously)
 
Tbh, there's been street parties up and down the nation, and there's not been a response by the government. I think that's suspect.

Even a proxy "stop it, this is wrong and you're putting people at risk" would have been something. But to my knowledge, not a peep from our government. I didn't watch the briefing tbf, so was anything said?
 
Suedesi said:
It's a false choice. Job losses are not attributed to the shutdown, they're attributed to the virus. Therefore lifting restrictions will not restore jobs/economy, defeating the virus will.
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See, this is what I'm wondering about. The virus might be the indirect cause, as opposed to the more direct FEAR taking over our lives. Our response to the virus is what is costing jobs. Look, I might be wrong. It's late here. There is more than just one pandemic. There is a pandemic of fear. A pandemic of division. The virus might now just be another actor on stage.
 
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If people were disciplined and unified, this thread would've been locked already. But nobody accounted for the entitled and affluent, like-minded individuals. Let's face it. Our desire for "freedom" is what fecked us here. Damn majority. Why don't I live in New Zealand?
 
Suedesi said:
Then be more forthright next time.

And if you disagree with the conclusion of that study, that's fine. We know SO LITTLE about Covid-19 and its impact on children (and everyone obviously)
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I asked you about the Spectator article but next time I will try to be clearer. And I don't disagree with the conclusion, I just think that the conclusion is more nuanced than what The Spectator wrote.:)
 
Shakesey said:
If people were disciplined and unified, this thread would've been locked already. But nobody accounted for the entitled and affluent, like-minded individuals. Let's face it. Our desire for "freedom" is what fecked us here. Damn majority. Why don't I live in New Zealand?
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What are you on about?

By any measure the British public have been incredibly obedient during this lockdown.
 
Group over the road started off 2m apart now after time and alcohol are right next to each other taking selfies and laughing. People become complacent after a while. I see it everywhere, even I'm not hand sanitizing as much as before
 
JMack1234 said:
Okay yeah that's a point, but as people do need to leave their home it's a ridiculous one. Obviously.
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Welcome to a ridiculous reality. Everything is. A hard lockdown (with food deliveries, obviously ;) ) was the only thing that could've saved us from this economic and medical ridiculousness. Now we have to give a little and take a little to make a living. We have to find a balance between death and livelihoods. Now that is ridiculous.
 
Shakesey said:
Welcome to a ridiculous reality. Everything is. A hard lockdown (with food deliveries, obviously ;) ) was the only thing that could've saved us from this economic and medical ridiculousness. Now we have to give a little and take a little to make a living. We have to find a balance between death and livelihoods. Now that is ridiculous.
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Supermarkets don't have the ability to deliver food to every household in this country.

Even if they did, they'd need thousands of workers in a warehouses preparing deliveries, you'd need mechanics maintaining the vans. Why am I even explaining this?

Everyone who has a developed frontal lobes knows that people have to leave their homes and in the end there is a trade off between health and economy. Not in a single country on our planet is going to lockdown until there's vaccine.

We're going to have to come up with a new normal. A normal, that allows us to have some sort of economy, whilst keeping infections to a minimum thus not collapsing our health service.
 
JMack1234 said:
Supermarkets don't have the ability to deliver food to every household in this country.

Even if they did, they'd need thousands of workers in a warehouses preparing deliveries, you'd need mechanics maintaining the vans. Why am I even explaining this?

Everyone who has a developed frontal lobes knows that people have to leave their homes and in the end there is a trade off between health and economy. Not in a single country on our planet is going to lockdown until there's vaccine.

We're going to have to come up with a new normal. A normal, that allows us to have some sort of economy, whilst keeping infections to a minimum thus not collapsing our health service.
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Seriously. Why do most people have to leave their home? Explain it to me as if I don't have a developed frontal lobe. ALL we have to do is stay indoors for 21 feckin days dude! That can't be that hard? Ramp up 100% hygienic deliveries for goodness sake.
 
Shakesey said:
Seriously. Why do most people have to leave their home? Explain it to me as if I don't have a developed frontal lobe. ALL we have to do is stay indoors for 21 feckin days dude! That can't be that hard? Ramp up 100% hygienic deliveries for goodness sake.
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To organize those deliveries you will need a lot of people and those people will have to leave their home.
 
Shakesey said:
Are you also saying it is impossible to stay indoors for 21 days?
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Well most people don't have access to deliveries, so in many cases it's impossible to stay indoors for 21 days. Also I'm not sure what staying indoors is supposed to do, you want people to drastically limit contacts with people that aren't in their household but going outside won't see catch the virus or spread it as long as you keep your distances.
 
Shakesey said:
Seriously. Why do most people have to leave their home? Explain it to me as if I don't have a developed frontal lobe. ALL we have to do is stay indoors for 21 feckin days dude! That can't be that hard? Ramp up 100% hygienic deliveries for goodness sake.
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You've answered your own question.

The people who deliver the food need to leave their homes. The people who process the orders need to leave their home. The mechanics mending this vans need to leave their homes. The cleaners disinfecting the facilities these people use need to leave their homes etc etc

Do you get it yet?
 
JPRouve said:
Well most people don't have access to deliveries, so in many cases it's impossible to stay indoors for 21 days. Also I'm not sure what staying indoors is supposed to do, you want people to drastically limit contacts with people that aren't in their household but going outside won't see catch the virus or spread it as long as you keep your distances.
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No offence, but I don't quite follow that bolded part.

As for the rest, we have now entered years of shite. We will suffer for years man! All because we couldn't snuff it out when we had the chance (like NZ). Ah well. So be it.
 
Shakesey said:
Are you also saying it is impossible to stay indoors for 21 days?
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Yes.

Explain to me how you're going to get essential services if nobody runs power stations, warehouses, drives trucks, nobody for emergency gas/electrical/fire, what about food manufacturing? Yeah we may have enough for 21 days, then once that is up nobody has been making food for 21 days so we have nothing to eat.

Then you get all the emergency services.
 
decorativeed said:
It's clearly impossible for people to live and for all of those people to stay indoors for 3 weeks. Think about it for more than a few seconds.
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OK, I thought about it for 10. Supposed someone leaves their home for whatever reason. If they follow a strict social distancing regime and adhere to all the rules set out then the virus would also bite the dust. So, staying indoors for 21 days, which I still think is possible, isn't quite so vital.
21 feckin days. I stayed indoors for 21 days. It wasn't that hard. The maskless people walking down our road clearly disagree.
 
One Night Only said:
Yes.

Explain to me how you're going to get essential services if nobody runs power stations, warehouses, drives trucks, nobody for emergency gas/electrical/fire, what about food manufacturing? Yeah we may have enough for 21 days, then once that is up nobody has been making food for 21 days so we have nothing to eat.

Then you get all the emergency services.
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The virus could have been snuffed out if the majority adhered to a hard lockdown. Not everyone needs to stay indoors. Essential services, and all the rest can be excluded (on the condition that they respect what's happening and take the proper precautions.)

C'mon. Tell me you agree. We could have beaten this thing.
 
Shakesey said:
OK, I thought about it for 10. Supposed someone leaves their home for whatever reason. If they follow a strict social distancing regime and adhere to all the rules set out then the virus would also bite the dust. So, staying indoors for 21 days, which I still think is possible, isn't quite so vital.
21 feckin days. I stayed indoors for 21 days. It wasn't that hard. The maskless people walking down our road clearly disagree.
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No, not really, because those infected in hospitals could still pass on to NHS staff who then have to go home to their families and kids, who then have to goto school because their parents are key workers, who can then pass it on to other kids, which pass it on to their parents.

Open the country up 21 days later and boom, it all starts again pretty much.
 
Shakesey said:
No offence, but I don't quite follow that bolded part.

As for the rest, we have now entered years of shite. We will suffer for years man! All because we couldn't snuff it out when we had the chance (like NZ). Ah well. So be it.
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You don't need to stay indoors all the time, you can go outside as long as you keep your distances with people that aren't from your household. For some reason you are fixated on staying indoors for 21 days.
 
Shakesey said:
The virus could have been snuffed out if the majority adhered to a hard lockdown. Not everyone needs to stay indoors. Essential services, and all the rest can be excluded (on the condition that they respect what's happening and take the proper precautions.)

C'mon. Tell me you agree. We could have beaten this thing.
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I thought like that about a month ago, but the more I read things and see what's happening the less I believe it would work.

Only way it would have worked is a complete lock down of the country, nobody in or out. And lockdown of regions as it started. That way it would have been contained to certain areas. Maybe the north of England would never have had a case. Maybe Wales wouldn't, that way, those areas could have produced like normal, while the hub cities were locked down. It's too late for that now anyway.
 
One Night Only said:
No, not really, because those infected in hospitals could still pass on to NHS staff who then have to go home to their families and kids, who then have to goto school because their parents are key workers, who can then pass it on to other kids, which pass it on to their parents.

Open the country up 21 days later and boom, it all starts again pretty much.
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True... So, what you're saying is it is absolutely impossible to contain the spread?

JPRouve said:
You don't need to stay indoors at all the time, you can go outside as long as keep your distances with people that aren't from your household. For some reason you are fixated on staying indoors for 21 days.
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Yeah, I've mutated. I'm no longer fixated with staying indoors for 21 days.
 
One Night Only said:
I thought like that about a month ago, but the more I read things and see what's happening the less I believe it would work.

Only way it would have worked is a complete lock down of the country, nobody in or out. And lockdown of regions as it started. That way it would have been contained to certain areas. Maybe the north of England would never have had a case. Maybe Wales wouldn't, that way, those areas could have produced like normal, while the hub cities were locked down. It's too late for that now anyway.
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How is it that this makes so much sense, yet no country did it? Surely it's not just a case of hindsight. It's so frustrating that the best minds on the planet couldn't reach that simple conclusion.
 
Shakesey said:
True... So, what you're saying is it is absolutely impossible to contain the spread?


Yeah, I've mutated. I'm no longer fixated with staying indoors for 21 days.
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I think we can limit the spread, and contain it to a certain extent, but it's not a case of contain and it's gone. It's contain and slow the rate of infection down so NHS can cope. Eventually waiting for a vaccine, or a drug to deal with it, or herd immunity.

There's been talk of the virus becoming weaker the longer it goes on, hopefully if that is true then the herd immunity thing won't be as bad as everyone initially thought. However, studies also show the opposite aswell, so who knows.

What I think is going to happen is social distancing rules for quite some time anyway, and those who manage to stick to them will be pretty fine. The people flouting them will probably catch it in groups and all be infected within the next couple months, and hopefully that builds the immunity so they can't catch it again.

Once the community or spreaders(those who ignore social distancing) have had it, hopefully then the rate of spread drastically drops and it'll die out that way.

Obviously it's not ideal as even those trying to practice social distancing still have a chance of catching it.
 
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