SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[DVG7]

Does it make any kind of sense that the UK's plan here i to hope that people just don't go to hospital, be sick for 2 weeks and just "take it on the chin".

"The government doesn't care about us so we'll deal with it ourselves"

 

[Fiskey]

Thing is, the other countries seem to agree with that point. It's just that their sense of when the right time is apparently looks different to the UK's.

It may well be that the situation in the UK is simply different to that of other countries, which explains the different timeframe. But then the Irish CMO said today that the UK had taken a different approach from the start, which suggests something else.

But this isn't really true. UK has taken a different approach to Ireland which has gone earlier, at the moment sounds like UK will be in line with other European countries of a similar size.

 

[Raoul]

Gyms in Ireland are all shutting down. I stopped going a few days ago anyway. You’re spot on about the risk of grubby hands on all the equipment. Plus spittle getting sprayed all over the shop by people grunting and groaning lifting heavy weights. Hang a pull up bar on a doorframe at home and start watching youtube videos of bodyweight exercises. The gains will have to wait.

Didn't think of this. Definitely not going now.

 

[Arruda]

Portuguese politician in Italy says "half harsed measures are only useful when accompanied by strong communication (he argues communicatin has been "hybrid")

As some government orders/advice arrive, but other public agents push the other way, due to fear of "panic"

Results (random sample):
- universities closed, students go to bars
- quarantined towns making their museums free entry to offset economic loss"


It's the gist of it, I didn't exactly translated it. But point is clear.

 

[RedTiger]

Anyone listening to the nutter on talksport right now?

 

[TheReligion]

Thing is, the other countries seem to agree with that point. It's just that their sense of when the right time is apparently looks different to the UK's.

It may well be that the situation in the UK is simply different to that of other countries, which explains the different timeframe. But then the Irish CMO said today that the UK had taken a different approach from the start, which suggests something else.

I guess it's a case of holding your nerve isn't it. Go too early and you're fecked. Go too late and you're equally fecked.

I'm not particularly concerned about what the UK is doing. Some of the best doctors and scientists in the world along with the best healthcare system you could ask for. People should try not to panic.

 

[Dante]

Anyone listening to the nutter on talksport right now?

No.

What are you saying?

 

[Paxi]

Is it safe to go to the gym ?

I wouldn't think it. Stuffy sweaty people working out. Nah.

 

[RedTiger]

No.

What are you saying?

Thinks we should listen to the UK government and carry on, no need to cancel any sports and arsenal should put out their youth team instead. He can't understand how infectious conronavirus is and says he will carry on working to pay his rent rather than self isolate

 

[Adzzz]

I guess it's a case of holding your nerve isn't it. Go too early and you're fecked. Go too late and you're equally fecked.

I'm not particularly concerned about what the UK is doing. Some of the best doctors and scientists in the world along with the best healthcare system you could ask for. People should try not to panic.

You could have miracle workers, it's about capacity and timing. We're holding our nerve but we haven't made any realistic measure to stop incoming cases, combined with the cases we have AND the schools are open, the major sports are going ahead. It's very risky, recklessly so.

 

[sullydnl]

But this isn't really true. UK has taken a different approach to Ireland which has gone earlier, at the moment sounds like UK will be in line with other European countries of a similar size.

By the same approach I mean insisting that moving too early would be as dangerous as moving too late. They've made the exact same arguments we've heard from the UK about the need to time measures appropriately, as opposed to arguing for early intervention as some had.

And the Irish have repeatedly stressed that they're directly following the advice of ECDC & WHO on when they enact different measures, so it's not like they're out of step with (what I assume is) the mainstream approach.

Now as I say, it may just be that the situation in the two countries is different. Ireland are slighty ahead in terms of cases per million, have a younger population, fewer centres of population density, a health service with different relative capacity, etc. It might be that there are various factors that alter the timing of measures as per the modelling being used. It's just interesting to speculate what exactly is prompting this divergent approach.

 

[Fiskey]

By the same approach I mean insisting that moving too early would be as dangerous as moving too late. They've made the exact same arguments we've heard from the UK about the need to time measures appropriately, as opposed to arguing for early intervention as some had.

And the Irish have repeatedly stressed that they're directly following the advice of ECDC & WHO on when they enact different measures, so it's not like they're out of step with (what I assume is) the mainstream approach.

Now as I say, it may just be that the situation in the two countries is different. Ireland are slighty ahead in terms of cases per million, have a younger population, fewer centres of population density, a health service with different relative capacity, etc. It might be that there are various factors that alter the timing of measures as per the modelling being used. It's just interesting to speculate what exactly is prompting this divergent approach.

As I've said previously, I think it's just a political calculation by Varadkar who's still smarting after the election and is trying to position himself should another one come along soon.

 

[Snow]

Close to 30 people contaminated have contracted the virus in Iceland from someone that brought it here with them. A few got it in the US, at least 1 in Germany but the majority got it skiing in N-Italy.

Currently we've got 117 confirmed infections out of ~1k sample so about 1 in 10 tested here have it but those that are getting tested are those coming from abroad or had contact with people coming from abroad. There are clear quarantien procedures for people coming from abroad and so far I've not heard about people breaking them.

Spoiler: Graph of Covid-19 infection rates in Iceland

 

[Ian Reus]

Looks like I'm stuck in Peru for the foreseeable.

 

[Skills]

Close to 30 people contaminated have contracted the virus in Iceland from someone that brought it here with them. A few got it in the US, at least 1 in Germany but the majority got it skiing in N-Italy.

Currently we've got 117 confirmed infections out of ~1k sample so about 1 in 10 tested here have it but those that are getting tested are those coming from abroad or had contact with people coming from abroad. There are clear quarantien procedures for people coming from abroad and so far I've not heard about people breaking them.

Spoiler: Graph of Covid-19 infection rates in Iceland

A guy from work is meant to be flying over tomorrow for his 'holiday'. What are the quarantine procedures?

 

[Paxi]

 

[Snow]

A guy from work is meant to be flying over tomorrow for his 'holiday'. What are the quarantine procedures?

For non-Icelanders there are no procedures unless you start to show symptoms then you try and isolate yourself whilst waiting for assist from the NHS.

 

[Rams]

We can afford healthcare but 1)Neoliberalism actively attacks and privatises institutions like the NHS or as we see in the US primaries, neo liberalism will do all it can to push back against the very idea of universal healthcare. 2)Neoliberalism is fundamentally against universal concepts and believes everything has to be run for a profit.


The problem(Well one of many) with the theory is the outcome of neoliberalism is mass inequity and destroyed worker power, which it then blame immigrants for. It's an old quote but it still works ''If you don't want to talk critically about liberalism, then shut up about fascism ''- Max Horkheimer.

But yeah whatever I don't want to derail the thread, you're on the left I get it and actually the real issue isn't material concerns and class power but people being nasty on twitter. Again the fact this sort of stuff passes for being on the left is sad indictment of the left.

I’m not defending neo liberalism, I was pointing out that for many countries healthcare has become increasingly expensive because there are more people taking out then are putting in due to the aging populations. Nothing to do with so called neo liberalism. You cannot just blame politics for the state of the healthcare in the West, it’s more of a social problem. How is the West & Far East going to pay for the care of their aging populations? That’s one of conundrums of our time.

 

[DOTA]

Thing that's kind of fascinating from a social perspective is that we're all facing this. The entire species. At present something like half the world currently has the same number one talking point.

 

[sullydnl]

As I've said previously, I think it's just a political calculation by Varadkar who's still smarting after the election and is trying to position himself should another one come along soon.

Even today though, they explicity cited ECDC advice prompting them to enact these measures after the latest increase in cases:

"The ECDC have now advised early, decisive, rapid, coordinated and comprehensive implementation of social distancing measures. Ireland has today responded to this advice."

So the idea that this is a rogue move on Varadkar's part doesn't seem to stack up. The Irish CMO explicitly said that they've been following ECDC recommendations all along while the UK have had a different approach. I'm not even sure if the UK have claimed to be following the ECDC's advice. So unless the ECDC is also out of line with the responses of other European countries...

 

[Wibble]

I’m not defending neo liberalism, I was pointing out that for many countries healthcare has become increasingly expensive because there are more people taking out then are putting in due to the aging populations. Nothing to do with so called neo liberalism. You cannot just blame politics for the state of the healthcare in the West, it’s more of a social problem. How is the West & Far East going to pay for the care of their aging populations? That’s one of conundrums of our time.

Although neo-liberalism has compounded the problem significantly in many countries.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

Thing that's kind of fascinating from a social perspective is that we're all facing this. The entire species. At present something like half the world currently has the same number one talking point.

It feels unreal, like a bad dream. There are very few dangerous situations that affect literally everybody and there's nothing the authorities can do to stop that.

 

[Paxi]

 

[justboy68]

The way the PL are trying to hang on is pathetic. The cancellation is inevitable and unavoidable , just get it over with.

Also the number of footballers/politicians etc testing positive is surely not in proportion with the official figures. It must be at least 10x higher with most people not being tested. That's likely the case world wide. Even many deaths will likely be unconfirmed for the virus unfortunately. This is an event that we will never forget folks.

 

[peridigm]

Happy to hear this. My son works at Hollywood Studios in Florida.

 

[dumbo]

It's not helping the anxiety to see that the most ardent supporters of Boris' plan were the same spamming support for austerity back during the election.

It's not that they are necessarily wrong, just that I suspect they would be shilling regardless of how harmful the advice was.

Experts, science, evidence comes in a variety of interpretation, each with a different degree of veracity. I hope ours is good.

 

[BluesJr]

They held a press conference earlier saying they were going ahead with the tournament without fans (fans were allowed today but banned tomorrow onwards).

Not a great look.

 

[Paxi]

 

[Chipper]

Canadian PM Justin Trudeau's wife Sophie has tested positive for it.

 

[izec]

Blowing over

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

It's not helping the anxiety to see that the most ardent supporters of Boris' plan were the same spamming support for austerity back during the election.

It's not that they are necessarily wrong, just that I suspect they would be shilling regardless of how harmful the advice was.

Experts, science, evidence comes in a variety of interpretation, each with a different degree of veracity. I hope ours is good.

It's not really Boris' plan though. It's Professor Vallance at the wheel, and I trust him. The virus has not yet started to peak here, if we start shutting down the country now, we could do more harm than good. Any drastic measures need to be at the right time.

Watch from about 34 minutes -

This guy speaks sense. I'm not sure I trust Boris either, but the two scientists speaking on behalf of the government - I buy them absolutely.

 

[Redplane]

Michigan up to 13 cases after first 2 yesterday. Governor Whitmer holding another conference in about an hour.

Apparently CDC tested ZERO people today. Only tests came from local health authorities. What the feck.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Thing that's kind of fascinating from a social perspective is that we're all facing this. The entire species. At present something like half the world currently has the same number one talking point.

Yes... everyone's talking about your username!

Change it to 'A Healthy New World' and become our saviour.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Troll President.

Like an Easter Egg to let us know this is most likely a simulation.

Also, a lot like an actual Easter Egg...

 

[Bebestation]

It's not really Boris' plan though. It's Professor Vallance at the wheel, and I trust him. The virus has not yet started to peak here, if we start shutting down the country now, we could do more harm than good. Any drastic measures need to be at the right time.

Watch from about 34 minutes -

This guy speaks sense. I'm not sure I trust Boris either, but the two scientists speaking on behalf of the government - I buy them absolutely.

I don't know much about politics but by shutting down the country now would it really disrupt us all that financially?

Is that what we are worried about?

In comparison to coming out of a health and safety pandemic literally out of a gamble whether we peak or not by just letting things continue?

Why?

What's so important to take a little break from the rest of the world and from each other whilst the numbers are low and keep the damage low maybe for a week only to open up again after a plan has been set up?

I'm nervous to kiss my girlfriend after work because I don't even want her to go. The fact is alot of these people don't care yet.

 

[Paxi]

 

[BluesJr]

Alarmingly true.

 

[dumbo]

It's not really Boris' plan though. It's Professor Vallance at the wheel, and I trust him. The virus has not yet started to peak here, if we start shutting down the country now, we could do more harm than good. Any drastic measures need to be at the right time.

Watch from about 34 minutes -

This guy speaks sense. I'm not sure I trust Boris either, but the two scientists speaking on behalf of the government - I buy them absolutely.

Which is my hope (in the absence of trust). But as a layman I can't speak to their expertise or reputations. Seemingly contradictory advice is out their and different governments are taking seemingly different action. You only need to look at the treatment of David Nutt to see why someone might not want to reveal unpalatable advice to a government.

Hope is the best I can do right now.

 

[Paxi]

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

I don't know much about politics but by shutting down the country now would it really disrupt us all that financially?

No, it's not about finances at all.

I do think there would be no harm in calling off public events, things like sports and crowds. I don't understand why they haven't been outlawed.

But closing all the schools and isolating towns and hotspots needs to be done at the right time, if we do it now, and people isolate for 3 weeks, they'll head back out into the world *before* the virus has peaked - it's all about metrics, to start the isolation right as the virus begins to peak, to mitigate the number of affected people at the right time.