Uptake doubled in NL as soon as they announced the passport
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
And what is the point here? The previous discussion was about the UK.
Yeah, I'd say if anything, that's probably my favourite part of a virus. Just don't get too close so they can see you looking at it.
One of the things I have learn over the past year is humans are constantly getting infected with diseases from animals, but either they are farmers not coming into regular contact with others, or it’s not capable of human to human transmission
In ireland they are so overwhelmed by tests of kids they are talking about giving up on the whole ‘close contact’ process.
the problem is that with the return to school coinciding with a flI/cold also doing the rounds it’s hard to say what’s what.
So no tests = a fall in any positives
Will make it hard to make any proper decisions if a big chunk of data is removed
Do you have the LFT home fast tests for school kids? Or does everything rely on PCR testing?
I think everything is done via PCR (could be wrong)
My country (Bermuda) is now the current world leader in covid - over 1 in 50 people are currently infected, and our hospital (we have 1) is at its highest emergency level. We're also at about 68% vaccinated.
And yet, half the country is arguing about Ivermectin and claiming vaccines don't prevent hospitalisations and death. Or that ones natural immune system is the only way.
I don't even know how to deal with it anymore.
And yet, half the country is arguing about Ivermectin and claiming vaccines don't prevent hospitalisations and death. Or that ones natural immune system is the only way.
I don't even know how to deal with it anymore.
I do not think I will ever understand how those people can simultaneously be against vaccinations but in favour of using Ivermectin for Covid.
I am fuming here. What the feck is this? Many of these countries like Nigeria have administered the UK vaccine. My parents were planning on coming over for a few weeks but now rethinking because they don't fancy a 10 day quarantine. They have had two doses of the Az vaccine.
Last edited:
Brutally, it's discrimination masquerading as public health policy.
In theory is supposed to deal with the idea that some countries are less cautious than others about people getting plausible looking vaccine documentation - corruption and fraud as elements. However, the rules don't apply to the US, whose CDC form is easy to copy (and is being sold online)
If they were really concerned about document validity and infection control, they'd give people the option for a bloodtest on arrival and look for antibodies. Admittedly that might only work for the next few months (until antibodies wane) but then just how long are we planning on keeping people out for?
I hope these countries reciprocate. It's bullshit. My sister in America has told me she knows for a fact people are using fakes.
For feck sake. My brother hasn’t been home from Thailand for over two years. He made sure he waited to get the AZ jab so the UK government wouldn’t have any reason to treat him differently when he comes home. He was planning to come home at Christmas for 2 weeks and this is going to make it next to pointless.
It's a mess and it's a long time since the UK was connecting rules to case numbers, vaccination rates or any kind of factual reasoning. It's all about politics now and playing up to voters. How could we trust Johnny Foreigner to vaccinate properly?! But we need the money from Europe and we're desperate for Biden not to kick us off his lap.
The daftest rule of the lot is the removal of pre departure tests and the change to LFT day 2 tests. Fill a plane with Covid positive people and then let them loose in society. If anything they should have kept the pre departure test and dropped the day 2 entirely.
I don’t know how widely AZ is still used but surely the UK are now going to be bottom of the list of producers these countries will be looking to buy from?
Yep, there's nothing straightforward about vaccine passports and international travel.
There's very little unanimity on how they'll operate. The EU pass and equivalence agreements seemed to offer a way forward, but that doesn't resolve the issue for most of Africa, Asia, South America. Inevitably, the UK and EU are still haggling over the details of equivalence (the UK wants trialists recognised
for example, and has different rules for under 18s, some EU countries want single dose + prior infection as course completion - whereas the UK has only just got round to accepting brand mix and match doses.)At any rate not easy and in global terms, not fair. But then I could use that phrase to describe the entire pandemic and the whole vaccination rollout.
Pre-departure LFTs would be better than nothing.
The annoyance with the tests on return has basically all been about the private companies, the charges, the admin incompetence, the tests that have to be placed in overflowing collection point boxes, the results that don't arrive or arrive too late to be useful.
If they were done as part of the NHS PCR testing service, (even with a £25 charge or something) then it would be different. It's that whole farce of shopping around for the best package of tests, and working out which kit they need etc, that put a lot of people off. They're only doing a partial job on fixing that.
Worldometer gives the total covid deaths at just over 4.7 millions. That is pretty staggering really. But these are the official figures and the actual may well be quite a bit higher.
I wonder what the true figures really are...
I wonder what the true figures really are...
The excess deaths tracking suggests that it might be more like 15 million. I posted a link to the stats a couple of weeks ago.
What’s been the secret to China’s mostly flattening the curve? With a population of 1.4 billion, they’ve kept 2nd and 3rd waves to below 120 cases.
They're either adopting draconian measures to keep the virus at bay or they're lying about their case numbers. Pick one (or both).
I would have believed the draconian measures until I realised people were having foam parties in Wuhan last new year and earlier. Maybe foam is the answer
draconian measures is that when they detect 5 cases they are capable to put a city(ies) in truely quarantine (not what we do in europe and america) and do test to 5-10 millions in 2-3 days. No new cases, lets the foam run
To prevent those who can but haven't been vaccinated from infecting those who can't or who didn't get a good immune response from vaccination e.g the elderly. And don't forget that the vaccines aren't sterilising and those percentages are only for those over 16 so I doubt we are close to HIT (hopefully yet) so we need to control infections and the obvious place is with limiting feckwits capacity to infect the rest of us. There has been more than adequate time for anyone with "genuine" concerns about the vaccines to listen to the evidence so why should they now get the benefits of everyone else's actions?
All covid restrictions have been lifted here in Denmark for a while now. Gotta say it's nice being back to normal.
Wow. Thank you for this. In any scenario, that is a staggering number. I even though double the 4.7million would be about the actual.
I do accept that precise numbers would be difficult to ascertain.
And of course, many people are still catching and dying from it. Mainly because of the worryingly low numbers who have been vaccinated across the world.
So even that number will increase.
You have focused on one specific area which affects only a small group of people. There are already attempts to create an injection for some of those people from that group [1]. On top of that, the existing vaccines were designed primarily to reduce hospitalisations and less so the spread of the virus, although they can help [2]. The counter-arguments are also still problematic, namely the logistics involved with any passport type system.
If you want to go down that line of argument, then we can also ask questions about why people who drink should be given any (free) NHS treatment or societal benefits. Or similarly people who smoke, eat poor diets etc... the list goes on. At some point you have to accept that people who do things which do not necessarily benefit themselves, but are not illegal, can enjoy the same benefits as anyone else.
So the under 16's, the elderly and those who can't be vaccinated are a small and irrelevant group? And how are the logistics so hard? We have to check in everywhere so link vaccine records and the job is done.
Smokers and drinkers already pay large tax contributions and maybe they should pay even more, smoking in particular.
And people who won't vaccinate are far worse as they don't just endanger themselves or their family. So feck them the selfish bastards.
As for the not illegal.bit, that is easily solved with legislation
Can someone help me out.
I am leaving for Spain on 25 September, returning on 4 October. Is all that is needed from my end is proof of vaccination, and a day 2 test when I return?
I am leaving for Spain on 25 September, returning on 4 October. Is all that is needed from my end is proof of vaccination, and a day 2 test when I return?
I was referring to people who cannot get a vaccine due to an immune response, as was evident by the second sentence. Why should under 16's be part of the discussion when they have not been offered the vaccine anyway?
Not all countries agree on what are the medical exemptions. There may not be agreement regarding which are the accepted vaccine manufacturers as well as dose intervals. There is also still no clear idea about how booster jabs will affect the passports . People who participated in trials have been left in limbo [1] [2]. Industry figures have also hinted that there are some logistical issues [3]. Have you got any data or articles which suggests otherwise?
Equally people with anti-vax views also work and pay tax, so they too should receive the same benefits as anyone else who pays tax.
There were 7000+ accidents related to drink driving alone in 2019 [4] and alcohol may cost NHS England £3.5 billion per year [5]. There are also numerous statistics which show alcohol influences crime which affects people in other ways such as violence and child neglect (see [6] and sources therein). It is certainly fair to say that in the short-term, Covid has had a profound affect but alcohol remains a serious issue in the UK.
Thankfully policy usually has to go several times through the commons and lords and is not passed on a whim.
Last edited:
They don't currently pay tax on the thing that they do (or don't do in the case of vaccination). 80% of the price of a pack of cigarettes is tax and there is a specific alcohol duty tax.
They still pay tax which contributes towards the NHS. Regardless, the point still stands that it does not make sense to decide who "deserves" benefits just because one does not agree with their (legal) life style choices.
It's fair to say that things that do cause additional cost to the NHS such as alcohol and cigarettes are taxed specifically though. It would be fair to work in a similar way by making people pay for their own weekly tests if they're not going to vaccinate unless they can't going on that basis.
Last edited:
Outbound, make sure to fill in the Spanish form before you travel. It should give you a QR code, which will speed things up at check-in here and when you arrive in Spain. If your vaccine is on their approved list, which the standard UK ones are, then that's all you need.
Returning, October 4th is rule change day and the new rules apparently kick in at 4am. If you're entering under the new rules, you don't need to get a test before you fly back, you do need to book and pay for a Day 2 PCR test in advance though. You need to fill in the UK entry form as well.
Thank you!!
The lockdown in Italy was very strict. Yet they have had 2-3 waves. I look at the stats, look at China’s early reaction which was based on silly PR and denial.. and think nothing has changed.
Having rules and get people to follow the rules are two different things.
I have no evidence to suggest that the first lockdown in Italy was not strictly followed or enforced, do you?
It is widely known that from Around Dec to Jan the Chinese government was telling medical workers to stay quiet and was downplaying the human to human transmission capacity of the virus to the international community.
Based on the above plus the way the virus has acted in other countries my opinion is that the stats for China are like the guy in fifa or FM who edits his team stats and gives Xhaka 90/100 for discipline