Would love to review your sources on this?
SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
I put a link above. It contains links to most of the articles of interest. Fauchi has also begun to doubt that the virus evolved naturally.
https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-the-clues-6f03564c038
where ?
thanks..
first I have heard anyone credible suggest it might not have evolved naturally.
Too sensible for humans as a whole, but surely you would of developed some form of treatment/vaccine just in case this ever happened in one of these labs or am i giving the human race too much credit.
very skeptical there are artificial elements in its genome. the furin cleavage site that has often been mentioned as a potential artificial insert is not what a human would put there given the choice. there are multiple lines of evidence supporting this, unfortunately i lost the link to the thread where i saw them. recapping from memory:
1. it is not a canonical site. when we insert something, we should know it works. this site works, but is unlike cleavage sites that are commonly used, all of which have been validated over decades and whose cleavage performance is stronger.
2. mutations in the site make the virus *stronger* (more infectious). a bioweapon artificially made weak...?????
none of this means the (naturally occurring) virus didn't escape from the virology lab. but it does mean that claims of genetic engineering, deliberate release, and bioweapon, should be treated very skeptically.
i read wade's long piece earlier, and he builds a strong case for lab escape, and then contradicts himself trying to make a case for genetic engineering/more. at one point he says "genetic engineering is untraceable", at another, he notes the rare, striking, *traceable* nature of the cleavage site. he's having and eating his cake on this.
e - found the thread i think:
there's another thread here which i'm less sure of, but seems to have some good info:
1. it is not a canonical site. when we insert something, we should know it works. this site works, but is unlike cleavage sites that are commonly used, all of which have been validated over decades and whose cleavage performance is stronger.
2. mutations in the site make the virus *stronger* (more infectious). a bioweapon artificially made weak...?????
none of this means the (naturally occurring) virus didn't escape from the virology lab. but it does mean that claims of genetic engineering, deliberate release, and bioweapon, should be treated very skeptically.
i read wade's long piece earlier, and he builds a strong case for lab escape, and then contradicts himself trying to make a case for genetic engineering/more. at one point he says "genetic engineering is untraceable", at another, he notes the rare, striking, *traceable* nature of the cleavage site. he's having and eating his cake on this.
e - found the thread i think:
there's another thread here which i'm less sure of, but seems to have some good info:
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Are people still going down this road? Ffs
I feel like we’re heading for another lockdown, or at least some sort of reversal of the loosening of restrictions. Anyone else feel this way or am I just being pessimistic?
Pessimistic, the data doesn't suggest that we're heading for another lockdown.
But does the data take account of the fact that the more transmissible ”Indian Variant” will soon be rife across the UK? Can’t see how it can be isolated in small areas.
Is there a jump in the numbers of new cases? Looking at the daily case numbers etc the drop from the bulk of last year is pretty massive. I know there are still people being infected and also sadly dying but its a pretty significant change. It looks to an average Joe like me that the vaccinations have helped massively. Honest question for those who understand all this more but is it likely the new Variant will see the numbers of last year or will it possibly lead to a jump in numbers but not one that will overload medical systems?
It currently is, Bolton's numbers dropped day on day and Blackburn's looks to have peaked. It's been noted that other areas that saw this variant had small peaks but then dropped. We had this same issue with the South African and Brazilian variant, all the data points to the vaccine having an impact on this variant too.
72.5% of the population have had a single jab, that will reduce hospitalisation significantly. Hospitalisation numbers are the key metric to look at now, and then have been on a downward trend since the end of Jan. I don't see any reason now why June can't happen given that I would say all will have been offered their first jab by then.
Gain-of-Function research is done with a vaccine in mind, but I don't believe they immidiately have a vaccine for whatever virus they are experimenting with.
I don't think the whole notion is that it is a bioweapon, but simpy a corona virus subjected to gain-of-function research that accidently got out of the lab. It's happened many times in history where a virus has escaped a lab. It's worth noting that it's reported now that staff at the institute were hospitalized early november 2019 with symptoms similar to covid 19.
I don't think in general China's behavior has been productive in order to not seem suspicious. If you've got nothing to hide, you allow people in.
China did the opposite. Chinese authorities suppressed all records at the Wuhan Institute and closed down its database of viral genomes. China barred all international scientists from going near the caves in Yunnan; blocked the roads; confiscated samples taken by a team of scientists on a recent trip to the caves; and all research papers based on evidence from the caves must be submitted to a task force overseen by the government in Beijing "under direct orders from President Xi Jinping. When Australia lobbied world leaders in April 2020 for an inquiry into the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, China responded with harsh trade sanctions.
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That was part of an ongoing tiff between Australia and China and doubtful it was anything to do with a real suspicion we had.
That’s good then, thanks
Was ethnicity playing a part too? Bolton, Blackburn, Leicester, Bradford... these are areas with high Asian populations and we know BAME are worse affected
Yes and no. It's likely there were more seed cases - people travelling from India who had caught covid there - in those areas. The timeline suggests that the infection chains started before hotel quarantine was introduced. If you are quarantining at home, your (non-traveling) family aren't subject to quarantine - they go to work/school as normal.
Housing conditions and (very) local demographics have played the bigger role in onward transmission. In the case of Bolton, the areas where it's concentrated have the youngest demographics, and their jobs are mostly the kind that you can't do from home.
Most of the cases have happened in the uncaccinated age groups, with a high likelihood that it's spreading at school then getting the parents:
In multi-generation households (or any situation where the young have caring responsibilities, whether they live together or not) there's a high probability that it will spread into more vulnerable age/risk groups. The unvaccinated, partly vaccinated are obviously then at most risk - but unlucky vaccinated ones are at risk as well (vaccines aren't 100% effective, though the covid ones get close) - which is why the hospital figures are rising now.
Oh @Pogue Mahone won't like that graph.
To be honest, what's annoying about the graph is that basically those stats (and data from a school in Long Eaton amongst others) were coming through before Boris Johnson proudly announced that masks were no longer needed in secondary schools, and that hugs were back.
Secondary school age students are testing (with LFTs) twice a week now - so to some extent they do act as an early warning. It's just noticeable that in Bolton's case there were no high community infection rates prior to the school numbers suddenly leaping up, despite relatively high levels of symptomatic/asymptomatic local testing.
Why? It’s exactly what you’d expect bearing in mind the age groups vaccinated in the UK.
Nobody ever said kids in school wouldn’t catch the virus/pass it on. What we didn’t know was whether reopening schools in September was a big factor in the exponential growth we saw at the beginning of this year.
Having seen overall cases in Ireland and the Uk flat-line/decrease since the kids went back to school (and with summer holidays less than a month away) we now know for certain that the role schools played in our last surge was being wildly exaggerated by the “shut the schools!” gang. That graph doesn’t change this fact.
Or spreading between parents at work/play and then on to their kids at home. Most likely a mix of both, depending on the nature of the parent’s job and social habits. All we can say for certain is that it’s spreading rapidly amongst the unvaccinated but vaccines seem to be working. Which is very reassuring.
Although I would like to see a breakdown of partially (i.e. one dose) vs fully vaccinated in those stats. You’d have to wonder if spacing out first and second dose by such a long gap is a factor here, bearing in mind the recent data on VE with this variant.
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He’s an idiot though. Last night we were thinking back to his behaviour at the start of covid. Plus if you believe Dominic Cummings revelations Boris was prepared to inject himself with COVID on live tv because he thought it was no more than a flu
All right all right I was only having a laugh! I'm delighted the schools going back hasn't bollocked things up but I am not delighted about all the extra traffic on the roads and little shits on bikes so bring on the summer.
Traffic is mad again
Yeah, I guess that's the problem with schools and offices reopening but public transport still only being at 50% capacity and many people not wanting to take it and instead drive.
At the end of April only the 65+ will have had two doses (assuming they wanted them and could get to the vaccine centre) - the 55+ group are there now.
On the schools/parents thing. The circumstantial evidence is that it's the kids. It tracks some others things like school holidays etc. It also fits with the 20-35 group being being lower than the "parents of secondary school age kids" groups.
I agree it's not clearcut though. The reasons might be very individual - like routinely tested 25 year olds probably being in jobs where they got vaccinated early. The case/hospitalisation numbers are fortunately so small that statistical snapshots don't necessarily give you the big picture, and we're at the level where itemised stats (as much as I'd love to see them) are probably patient confidentiality issues.
The real big picture in the Bolton numbers is that whatever role ethnicity is playing in vaccine take-up etc, that's not really the main issue in this outbreak. The over 70s are 90%+ double dosed even in the least vaccinated postcodes in the town.
This Cummings thing is absolute gold... just said Matt Hancock should have been fired twenty times over... for consistently lying to the public and the cabinet.
Worth noting that on the 13th March, we'd already been watching Italy's hospitals struggling on nightly news.
We'd also seen European football matches being cancelled or played behind closed doors. It's the same day that the Premier League announced the cancellation of fixtures.
Puts the claims that UK gov actually handled things okay (and the claims that herd immunity was never actually their plan) into sharp context. Incompetent liars.
This is the same cnut who went on national television to lie to us about his own rule breaking?
Yeah whilst I do believe him as much of this is very believable it’s hard to want to stomach it considering what a feckwit he is
I have been listening to some of what has been said. I dislike Cummings as a person who has openly lied on national television to the British public.
But. I dislike and distrust the Tories and in particular Boris even more.
And to be honest, I am not at all surprised by anything Cummings has said so far.
More importantly, it seems like he has the evidence to back up his claims.
I just hope that enough people listen and take a view on the events and realise that those events resulted in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Wait, have people claimed that? I thought it was fairly widely accepted that the UK's response was amongst the world's worst.
I don't like Cummings and he is very much complicit... but a lot of what he is saying is very likely true and it's nice to actually hear it from someone who was a part of this whole shit show.
Apologies. I’m in a bit of a jocker this morning because my best friend, who is six months younger than me, got his jab last night and I’m still waiting to get a fecking appointment!