calodo2003
Flaming Full Member
Well, I definitely appreciate your reply. But, after every impactful traumatic incident in human history, life is altered going forward. As I stated, our lives may only be changed minutely by having to get an extra vaccine or quick covid tests before we get on an airplane or it could be changed to levels unimaginable. I tend to think that the changes will be closer to the former, but to think that everyone will be able to reset to their life pre-pandemic is simply Pollyanna-ish.Not being rude but how do you justify such a finite perspective? I'm trying to understand why so many people are buying into this pre-destined scenario that is being pushed for a number of reasons in addition to the obvious health-medical ones.
Recent data from the USA shows that deaths from Covid-19 alone were around 9,000 while the other cases of the 200,000 plus were those of the elderly including those already sick, the medically obese, those with serious conditions that would be vulnerable to flu as well as covid-19 including cancer, hiv, etc.
The USA has a population of around 300,00 million people and the regrettable deaths of over 200,000 people doesn't even come close to those that have occurred from influenza over the years. Despite have flu vaccinations, the effectiveness of which depend on the strain of flu yet different ones are resistant therefore the death toll each year in the world including developed countries from flu. And where did flu go this year? Probably it co-existed with covid-19 in some of the cases of serious infection and the number of deaths.
I don't apologise for saying that the economic vandalism as well as rise in suicides that has been recorded in a number of countries, the disruption to normal social life etc etc has been and is proving to be excessive for a new virus that is far less fatal than the Hong Kong flu for example that caused millions of deaths or the Spanish Flu which is being trotted out as a kind of guide by some 'authorities' to impose lockdowns and masks as well as serious economic destruction and mental health problems in many countries. Despite the fact the Spanish Flu targeted the young rather than the old whereas covid-19 targets the old, those with fairly serious to serious pre-existing conditions, etc.
Why the panic? It is one thing to be very very cautious in the initial stages of a new virus and to understand how certain groups are very vulnerable as we saw in the over loaded hospitals of Europe for example. It is another to be witnessing just how this new virus has worked its way through populations without causing anything like deaths from other pandemics in recent history and in fact is having less serious casualties than different kinds of flu which governments and societies accepted as having a death toll each year higher than covid-19. Regardless of available vaccines.
This is a re-set - emissions have gone down by around 30 percent since air traffic was mostly halted, the appalling debt and inadequate economic policies of most govts and their failure to address the fact we are now living in the 21st century will be dealt with by this crisis whether the solutions will be good or not, and surveillance in a number of forms once thought of as intruding on human rights and civil liberties are becoming accepted outside of countries such as China.
Influential, unelected organisations and individuals are using this new virus to impose change that was not possible before. There will be serious attempts to render cash obsolete and impose world-wide digital IDS - the 'covid-free' digital passport is not a theory, it has been developed. All it takes is for enough govts to co-operate and as govts and politicians usually seek to cement their power, I doubt many will resist.
On one hand we are being daily spooked by media stories about how the virus comes back and people get re-infected yet on the other hand the 'covid-free digital passport' for you and me and everyone to be able to leave their countries and travel elsewhere is being touted as the best thing since sliced bread. Wake up. we are being played here as the power grab is similar to that after 9/11. The surveillance web created by Bush and his masters profoundly changed our world for the worst.
All the 'it will never be the same' for a new virus that is proving to be highly infectious but less harmful than many strains of influenza and other viruses shows just how easily people can be swayed by the constant barrage of internet memes. Thinking for yourself is almost being elevated to a crime with the left side of politics leading the charge most of the time. This is very worrying as the left used to be the side skeptical of govt power grabs and the huge corporations' influence.
The World Economic Forum, containing such models of democracy and free thought as Mastercard and a host of other cynical exploiters is all up in this 'Oooh, life has changed forever!' Think about the messages coming from the unelected as well as the elected.
As for masks, I live in Japan and while masks can be useful I don't think they are much of the story about why Japan has managed to avoid lockdowns. We avoided them here as well as the worst effects of covid-19 because to put it quite simply and truthfully, Japan is not a multi-cultural country with the massive mobility of immigrant countries in the west, no double or more passports, no living in one country for some time each year then coming back as normal practice, etc. Viruses rely on mobility to spread and that of western countries including the USA has much to do with it as well as the different strains brought in to western countries by this continous mobility.
As for Japan being a model of virtue because the Japanese wear masks and 'selfish' westerners don't - it is easy to get infected by your mask if you don't take precautions all the time and judging by the Japanese I see putting their masks down on uncleaned desks, tables, or even train seats, I'd say masks are only as good as how clean they are. Remember too that covid-19 is mild for many people so I have no doubt the recorded infections in Japan and non-recorded infections have something to do with the mask wearing culture.
To end, this summarises the 'noble' Japanese attitude to mask wearing - in surveys, most respondents have said that wearing masks because everybody else is, is the number one priority for them. Not stopping viral infections. The hive mind perfectly summarised and this hive mind should not be admired in western countries with histories of philosophers and other thinkers who inspired democratic institutions and societies no matter how imperfect. There is no equivalent in Japan.
I’m sorry that flies in conflict with your apparent political ideology, but I could rebut a lot of your held beliefs in your statement (covid specific v. covid related deaths, the fact that mortality isn’t the most important issue at play to me, discussions of limiting spread). This is isn’t the best thread to do that in, I don’t feel. Just admitting that we won’t be going back to the status quo isn’t being a leftist loon, it’s potentially stating the reality of the situation.
Just admitting to this obvious fact isn’t me trying to come across as a fear monger or doom sayer, it’s just common sense. Look at the after effects of 9/11, our lives were irreparably changed especially regarding air travel. To think that this current traumatic event won’t have similar lasting impact is just silly. Even if it takes us ten minutes longer to pass through a customs check going forward than it did in 2019, that means are our lives have been changed. I’m not panicking, I’m just staying a simple fact. Not everything us leftist loons say is always ‘Chicken Little, the sky is falling,’ but many on the right often do blow it out of proportion to try to make it so.
Last edited: