SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

I see your point, thanks for your reply. I also wanted to express myself in that lengthy way as there is something 'off' about significant parts of the media reporting on covid-19 as well as the other agendas being pushed. Authorities and authoritarianism never waste a crisis.

I'd also like to point out that the 'inevitability' depends on how far people are willing to go to be servile and accept everything at face value while daily life shows us that now it is becoming clearer that covid-19 is being over-hyped in some aspects and it is being used in a social engineering sense. The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.

Again, watch the corporations like big pharma in the USA. A lot of the hype and over-hype is to do with cold hard finances and all the corporations like Mastercard and BHP and the other assorted 'models of democracy and ethical practice' are using covid-19 as the means to an end. The re-set economically as well as the usual 'elites' and their pursuit of more and more influence and power in order to re-make socio-economic structures.

A useful fact to keep in mind that tyrannies in history of all ages seek to restrict travel and other movement. They don't like usual people getting together and challenging them or even simply disagreeing with them. Americans went down that road under the Bush Government but now it's the holier-than-thou Democrats eagerly endorsing covid-19 inspired overreach. Be aware.
 
calodo2003 said:
Well, I definitely appreciate your reply. But, after every impactful traumatic incident in human history, life is altered going forward. As I stated, our lives may only be changed minutely by having to get an extra vaccine or quick covid tests before we get on an airplane or it could be changed to levels unimaginable. I tend to think that the changes will be closer to the former, but to think that everyone will be able to reset to their life pre-pandemic is simply Pollyanna-ish.

Just admitting to this obvious fact isn’t me trying to come across as a fear monger or doom sayer, it’s just common sense. Look at the after effects of 9/11, our lives were irreparably changed especially regarding air travel. To think that this current traumatic event won’t have similar lasting impact is just silly. I’m not panicking, I’m just staying a simple fact.
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I think it is accelerating trends that were already prominent (the decline of high street shopping, the switch to working from home, generational inequality) but I don’t see any major new long- term impacts at this stage. After all, given the low mortality rates, you would not expect it to have the same kind of socio-economic impact as the Black Death. It would be nice if it led the West to reassess its relations with China but I won’t hold my breath on that one.
 
ryansgirl said:
I see your point, thanks for your reply. I also wanted to express myself in that lengthy way as there is something 'off' about significant parts of the media reporting on covid-19 as well as the other agendas being pushed. Authorities and authoritarianism never waste a crisis.

I'd also like to point out that the 'inevitability' depends on how far people are willing to go to be servile and accept everything at face value while daily life shows us that now it is becoming clearer that covid-19 is being over-hyped in some aspects and it is being used in a social engineering sense. The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.

Again, watch the corporations like big pharma in the USA. A lot of the hype and over-hype is to do with cold hard finances and all the corporations like Mastercard and BHP and the other assorted 'models of democracy and ethical practice' are using covid-19 as the means to an end. The re-set economically as well as the usual 'elites' and their pursuit of more and more influence and power in order to re-make socio-economic structures.

A useful fact to keep in mind that tyrannies in history of all ages seek to restrict travel and other movement. They don't like usual people getting together and challenging them or even simply disagreeing with them. Americans went down that road under the Bush Government but now it's the holier-than-thou Democrats eagerly endorsing covid-19 inspired overreach. Be aware.
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Uh oh. We got a live one here...
 
I believe this lockdown will fair worse considering it doesn't feel like people are going to take it at all serious.

I'm in London. We are day 5 in tier 2. I've had 1 invite to a friend's house and my mum wants to go visit my sister in a different city altogether.

I see kids in the park groups of 10 playing. Roads are looking a lot busier.
 
Anyone else finding they can't get a GP appointment in England, for something that can't be dealt with by phone or video call? My sister has had a painful ear for about a fortnight, she spoke to her GP who told her to put olive oil drops in it. This hasn't helped. She tried to get an appointment to actually have a GP look in her ear, and the receptionist refused to give her one. When she asked the receptionist what she should do, the answer was "look it up on Google" (seriously, that's what she said).

This is a very large practice with multiple doctors and thousands of patients. She's now going to pay to see a private audiology/ear-syringing service.
 
MoskvaRed said:
I think it is accelerating trends that were already prominent (the decline of high street shopping, the switch to working from home, generational inequality) but I don’t see any major new long- term impacts at this stage. After all, given the low mortality rates, you would not expect it to have the same kind of socio-economic impact as the Black Death. It would be nice if it led the West to reassess its relations with China but I won’t hold my breath on that one.
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For me, the issue could ultimately lie in how the medical field, especially hospitals, is impacted if they are overwhelmed by cases of the virus, the reduction in simple medical & social services that could result from hospitals, etc. being flooded with covid patients could be more important than the mortality. We’ve been at the cusp of some severe challenges with hospitalizations in the states before & we unfortunately are trending back that way now. The mortality rate & the number of deaths is important & sensationalist, but that may not be the most important long term impact from the virus.

I too don’t think that the societal impact will be like the result of the Black Death, but there will be some permanent changes. Just like being forced to wear seatbelts, the changes won't necessarily be über-negative & restrictive.
 
ryansgirl said:
I see your point, thanks for your reply. I also wanted to express myself in that lengthy way as there is something 'off' about significant parts of the media reporting on covid-19 as well as the other agendas being pushed. Authorities and authoritarianism never waste a crisis.

I'd also like to point out that the 'inevitability' depends on how far people are willing to go to be servile and accept everything at face value while daily life shows us that now it is becoming clearer that covid-19 is being over-hyped in some aspects and it is being used in a social engineering sense. The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.

Again, watch the corporations like big pharma in the USA. A lot of the hype and over-hype is to do with cold hard finances and all the corporations like Mastercard and BHP and the other assorted 'models of democracy and ethical practice' are using covid-19 as the means to an end. The re-set economically as well as the usual 'elites' and their pursuit of more and more influence and power in order to re-make socio-economic structures.

A useful fact to keep in mind that tyrannies in history of all ages seek to restrict travel and other movement. They don't like usual people getting together and challenging them or even simply disagreeing with them. Americans went down that road under the Bush Government but now it's the holier-than-thou Democrats eagerly endorsing covid-19 inspired overreach. Be aware.
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We obviously agree on a lot more than what our brief interaction has shown. Difficult to argue with much of your missive. Thankfully I saw through the Bush horseshit & am not endorsing the overreach of those in my party. That we as a worldwide culture will have our lives altered going forward by this virus is what I’m saying. Hopefully it will never get this too bad to where even more severe measures need to be enacted, but, as a worldwide culture, we might need to have to have some privileges restricted for the greater good. Hopefully where the public perception needle stops is at a point where people of disparate ideologies can agree on measures that benefit more than just ourselves.
 
calodo2003 said:
I’m sorry that flies in conflict with your apparent political ideology
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Oh, I just saw that.

I'm a rational human being who doesn't like censorship and propaganda in the media by both sides of the political spectrum. I also believe in civil liberties and have always been opposed to fascism and its expression in the corporate state which both sides of the political spectrum accept generally. The current trend of the non-conservative side cheerleading for the kind of activities they were willing to criticise and sometimes oppose when not in govt is very worrying.

I'm also disturbed by the jump in the suicide rate in Japan this year compared to last year. Suicide was responsible for far more deaths than covid-19 and from what I could find out, the increase was from part time or contract workers whose hours have been cut, in some cases just about to the bone - under normal circumstances it is horrendous the way employers here can get away with breaking the law on them through sly ways to deny benefits etc - as well as younger people stressed by the constant pandemic talk and feelings of isolation.
 
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ryansgirl said:
Oh, I just saw that.

I'm a rational human being who doesn't like censorship and propaganda in the media by both sides of the political spectrum. I also believe in civil liberties and have always been opposed to fascism and its expression in the corporate state which both sides of the political spectrum accept generally. The current trend of the non-conservative side cheerleading for the kind of activities they were willing to criticise and sometimes oppose when not in govt is very worrying.
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Again, don’t disagree with much of anything you’ve written here either. It’s sad that this debate has been co-opted by the two political ideologies & is being used to wedge the populace apart, especially in my country. The fashy tendencies here existed before covid & the civil liberties that were in harm’s way have suffered some by these tendencies. Hopefully when we are past the crux of this virus our civil liberties & privileges are only impinged upon slightly & our going about our altered lives will be as common & simple as remembering to put a seat belt on.
 
So someone in my workplace tested positive a couple of weeks ago. We only got told today! They did isolate those that had been near him and luckily I had been WFH up until yesterday anyway. There’s been a full two weeks of tests (we have choice of weekly testing paid for by the company) with no more positives. Also my best mate reckon he may have it as his teacher wife had two pupils test positive and she now has a scratchy throat.
 
ryansgirl said:
The constant mention of infections is never matched by pointing out that people are being continually tested everywhere and had this been implemented for other viruses such as swine flu and influenza in its different strains, those viruses too would have shown up in large numbers.
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That's a very weak viewpoint, to even consider that the virus is being over-hyped due to continual testing. With less testing you would have a higher case rate, and an increase of testing in principle will help lower the case rate as you're finding people with the virus early enough before they spread it.
 
ryansgirl said:
Oh, I just saw that.

I'm a rational human being who doesn't like censorship and propaganda in the media by both sides of the political spectrum. I also believe in civil liberties and have always been opposed to fascism and its expression in the corporate state which both sides of the political spectrum accept generally. The current trend of the non-conservative side cheerleading for the kind of activities they were willing to criticise and sometimes oppose when not in govt is very worrying.

I'm also disturbed by the jump in the suicide rate in Japan this year compared to last year. Suicide was responsible for far more deaths than covid-19 and from what I could find out, the increase was from part time or contract workers whose hours have been cut, in some cases just about to the bone - under normal circumstances it is horrendous the way employers here can get away with breaking the law on them through sly ways to deny benefits etc - as well as younger people stressed by the constant pandemic talk and feelings of isolation.
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Stressed by the “pandemic talk”? Stressed by the pandemic, you mean. Likewise the job losses.

You seem to be implying that economic hardship and psychological stress is being opportunistically foisted on young people by those in power, just because they can, while ignoring the far more obvious cause i.e. the pandemic itself.

Basically you’re on a slippery slope to cloud cuckoo conspiracy land. Be careful out there.
 
Adamsk7 said:
So someone in my workplace tested positive a couple of weeks ago. We only got told today! They did isolate those that had been near him and luckily I had been WFH up until yesterday anyway. There’s been a full two weeks of tests (we have choice of weekly testing paid for by the company) with no more positives. Also my best mate reckon he may have it as his teacher wife had two pupils test positive and she now has a scratchy throat.
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Why should/would they have told you out of interest?
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Why should/would they have told you out of interest?
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I dunno, I just expected some more transparency seeing as they’ve known for a good two weeks now - sure they can find the closest people during work hours easily enough but I doubt they know the minutia of who he’s been in contact with. I guess we’ve never had a situation like this before so my mind was telling me one thing of what we would see if we had a positive case and the reality was a bit different. I’m not saying it was a negative experience, guess I just expected more of a hullabaloo than we got!
 
Adamsk7 said:
So someone in my workplace tested positive a couple of weeks ago. We only got told today! They did isolate those that had been near him and luckily I had been WFH up until yesterday anyway. There’s been a full two weeks of tests (we have choice of weekly testing paid for by the company) with no more positives. Also my best mate reckon he may have it as his teacher wife had two pupils test positive and she now has a scratchy throat.
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Did they inform the coworkers who were working in the office before or was everyone informed after two weeks?
 
Penna said:
Anyone else finding they can't get a GP appointment in England, for something that can't be dealt with by phone or video call? My sister has had a painful ear for about a fortnight, she spoke to her GP who told her to put olive oil drops in it. This hasn't helped. She tried to get an appointment to actually have a GP look in her ear, and the receptionist refused to give her one. When she asked the receptionist what she should do, the answer was "look it up on Google" (seriously, that's what she said).

This is a very large practice with multiple doctors and thousands of patients. She's now going to pay to see a private audiology/ear-syringing service.
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My friend had a similar issue. He manager to get a zoom call kind of appointment. Was in absolute agony with an ear ‘infection’ and both ears blocked. Anyway, he went to a professional ear cleaner and they cleared out both of his ears with some microsuction machine. Back to normal the day after. Set him back £50 for both ears but beats the excruciating pain he was in. He couldn’t even hear on the drive to the ear cleaners!
 
Neo_Mufc said:
I believe this lockdown will fair worse considering it doesn't feel like people are going to take it at all serious.

I'm in London. We are day 5 in tier 2. I've had 1 invite to a friend's house and my mum wants to go visit my sister in a different city altogether.

I see kids in the park groups of 10 playing. Roads are looking a lot busier.
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yeah, the whole were in it together thing just about held up for 1 lockdown, now people have had a nice sit at home watched telly they aren't ready to accept another especially one were there is less government funding for them to do nothing.
 
Penna said:
Anyone else finding they can't get a GP appointment in England, for something that can't be dealt with by phone or video call? My sister has had a painful ear for about a fortnight, she spoke to her GP who told her to put olive oil drops in it. This hasn't helped. She tried to get an appointment to actually have a GP look in her ear, and the receptionist refused to give her one. When she asked the receptionist what she should do, the answer was "look it up on Google" (seriously, that's what she said).

This is a very large practice with multiple doctors and thousands of patients. She's now going to pay to see a private audiology/ear-syringing service.
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My local GP surgery has been like this long before the pandemic. I wrote a complaint on the NHS website and it did not get a reply, but at least I recorded the complaint.
 
Has it been the case that people in Manchester haven’t been able to meet other households in pubs/restaurants for the last 2/3 months? Or was it just the same 10pm rules as everywhere else?

Only asking as I keep reading today that Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 restrictions for months.
 
Dan_F said:
Has it been the case that people in Manchester haven’t been able to meet other households in pubs/restaurants for the last 2/3 months? Or was it just the same 10pm rules as everywhere else?

Only asking as I keep reading today that Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 restrictions for months.
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I think so but I’m not going to lie. I just keep doing what I’m doing until someone tells me I’m not allowed to.

I don’t really have a clue what the rules are
 
Dan_F said:
Has it been the case that people in Manchester haven’t been able to meet other households in pubs/restaurants for the last 2/3 months? Or was it just the same 10pm rules as everywhere else?

Only asking as I keep reading today that Manchester has effectively been in tier 2 restrictions for months.
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No household mixing unless outside.
 
Penna said:
Anyone else finding they can't get a GP appointment in England, for something that can't be dealt with by phone or video call? My sister has had a painful ear for about a fortnight, she spoke to her GP who told her to put olive oil drops in it. This hasn't helped. She tried to get an appointment to actually have a GP look in her ear, and the receptionist refused to give her one. When she asked the receptionist what she should do, the answer was "look it up on Google" (seriously, that's what she said).

This is a very large practice with multiple doctors and thousands of patients. She's now going to pay to see a private audiology/ear-syringing service.
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Tell the receptionist that the issue is personal and you’ll discuss it with the doctor
 
Giggzinho said:
My friend had a similar issue. He manager to get a zoom call kind of appointment. Was in absolute agony with an ear ‘infection’ and both ears blocked. Anyway, he went to a professional ear cleaner and they cleared out both of his ears with some microsuction machine. Back to normal the day after. Set him back £50 for both ears but beats the excruciating pain he was in. He couldn’t even hear on the drive to the ear cleaners!
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It's not good enough - people still need to see a doctor in person sometimes, Covid notwithstanding. They can't just say "no" to you. I'm telling my sister to report what the receptionist said to her about going on Google.
 
Giggzinho said:
My friend had a similar issue. He manager to get a zoom call kind of appointment. Was in absolute agony with an ear ‘infection’ and both ears blocked. Anyway, he went to a professional ear cleaner and they cleared out both of his ears with some microsuction machine. Back to normal the day after. Set him back £50 for both ears but beats the excruciating pain he was in. He couldn’t even hear on the drive to the ear cleaners!
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On a side note, I’ve had that done and it’s bloody fantastic!
 
Penna said:
It's not good enough - people still need to see a doctor in person sometimes, Covid notwithstanding. They can't just say "no" to you. I'm telling my sister to report what the receptionist said to her about going on Google.
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Your sister could try telling them that if she isn't given an appointment she will go to A&E. I know GPs don't like that, I've heard they actually get charged if it happens, which seems unlikely but there must be some reason for it.

Obviously this is a totally wrong way to run a health service, I'm just thinking from her point of view.
 
Penna said:
It's not good enough - people still need to see a doctor in person sometimes, Covid notwithstanding. They can't just say "no" to you. I'm telling my sister to report what the receptionist said to her about going on Google.
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GP trainee here, sorry for what your sister went through.
Ear aches typically I could try and resolve via a video consultation. Unless she is diabetic there usually isn't a sinister cause. I'm guessing her GP thought that issue was more blockage than infection (otitis externa) hence the olive oil drops to soften wax. Otherwise its usually ear sprays like acetic acid (ear calm) or if something stronger needed a prescription drop like Otomize. Sometimes in kids they are more prone to middle ear infections so we give oral antibiotics (rarely needed in adults)

I think there definitely are patients receiving suboptimal care I hear you.

The purpose though of telephone triage is to minimise patient contact in waiting rooms especially during flu season we have shielding type patients coming in and out.
Often if patients insist I'll come them in for a face to face consultation but a big part is communicating effectively, negotiating a mutually agreeable managaement plan and safety netting or follow up. With 10 minute slots really difficult to do.

Primary care in the UK has been overburdened sadly. I don't think 10 minute slots are justifiable in any way but we simply don't have enough GPs to offer appointments so are struggling. Practice managers or deputy practice managers are good with these things too and will feed back to doctors.

We use video consultation quite a bit, a lot of people do prefer that type of consult as it means not waiting in waiting rooms, able to do consults from home or work. Vast majority of primary care presentations can be sorted virtually.

Usually we bring people in if clinical examination or to check vital signs or if diagnosis in doubt or possible admission. I'd say its about 20% of my consults I'm bringing in but I'm quite junior. So people are being face to face but minimising it is to protect patients as much as ourselves (i've got full PPE to see people in, so I've got no issue calling somebody in from a safety point of view)

It isn't great though for a lot of people but given how long covid will last this way of seeing people is here to stay for atleast another year I reckon.
 
Wolverine said:
GP trainee here, sorry for what your sister went through.
Ear aches typically I could try and resolve via a video consultation. Unless she is diabetic there usually isn't a sinister cause. I'm guessing her GP thought that issue was more blockage than infection (otitis externa) hence the olive oil drops to soften wax. Otherwise its usually ear sprays like acetic acid (ear calm) or if something stronger needed a prescription drop like Otomize. Sometimes in kids they are more prone to middle ear infections so we give oral antibiotics (rarely needed in adults)

I think there definitely are patients receiving suboptimal care I hear you.

The purpose though of telephone triage is to minimise patient contact in waiting rooms especially during flu season we have shielding type patients coming in and out.
Often if patients insist I'll come them in for a face to face consultation but a big part is communicating effectively, negotiating a mutually agreeable managaement plan and safety netting or follow up. With 10 minute slots really difficult to do.

Primary care in the UK has been overburdened sadly. I don't think 10 minute slots are justifiable in any way but we simply don't have enough GPs to offer appointments so are struggling. Practice managers or deputy practice managers are good with these things too and will feed back to doctors.

We use video consultation quite a bit, a lot of people do prefer that type of consult as it means not waiting in waiting rooms, able to do consults from home or work. Vast majority of primary care presentations can be sorted virtually.

Usually we bring people in if clinical examination or to check vital signs or if diagnosis in doubt or possible admission. I'd say its about 20% of my consults I'm bringing in but I'm quite junior. So people are being face to face but minimising it is to protect patients as much as ourselves (i've got full PPE to see people in, so I've got no issue calling somebody in from a safety point of view)

It isn't great though for a lot of people but given how long covid will last this way of seeing people is here to stay for atleast another year I reckon.
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My local GP (ireland) has been doing telephone triage and video consultations since about April. The doctors themselves call you for 10 minutes and decide whether you need to come in or not. From personal experience I think it works well but obviously there are things that need physical investigation. My wife has had a sore ear for weeks. She’s in agony and 2 weeks ago was given an antibiotic which hasn’t worked. Assuming next time she will have to go in. Actually this has been ongoing issues with ear infections for ages so thankfully she has an appointment next week with ENT consultant (telephone)
 
@Wolverine, thank you for this. Funnily enough, before I retired I used to work with GP practices on performance issues, and I know how hard the job is - it must be very difficult right now. I agree that a great deal can be done on the phone of by video consultation.

@711, I think quite a few people would just take the A&E option, but as you say, it's not the right thing to do for many reasons including Covid.
 
golden_blunder said:
My local GP (ireland) has been doing telephone triage and video consultations since about April. The doctors themselves call you for 10 minutes and decide whether you need to come in or not. From personal experience I think it works well but obviously there are things that need physical investigation. My wife has had a sore ear for weeks. She’s in agony and 2 weeks ago was given an antibiotic which hasn’t worked. Assuming next time she will have to go in. Actually this has been ongoing issues with ear infections for ages so thankfully she has an appointment next week with ENT consultant (telephone)
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I would have loved to work in Ireland, primary care always had a great vibe especially in rural areas when I did medical school rotations there (in Wexford, Galway and northern part of Dublin). But the way the HSE treats doctors in secondary care and some of the horror stories would make me think twice unless its somewhere in a private hospital its pretty grim to do junior doctor level jobs there.

Haven't kept up too much with how covid has been handled there though but always worried there given lack of ICU facilities comparatively
 
Wolverine said:
I would have loved to work in Ireland, primary care always had a great vibe especially in rural areas when I did medical school rotations there (in Wexford, Galway and northern part of Dublin). But the way the HSE treats doctors in secondary care and some of the horror stories would make me think twice unless its somewhere in a private hospital its pretty grim to do junior doctor level jobs there.

Haven't kept up too much with how covid has been handled there though but always worried there given lack of ICU facilities comparatively
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Safe to say those chickens have come home to roost...
 
Stanley Road said:
Seriously? Can you just not accept not going on holiday until this is over?

I dont get people i really dont.
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I'm doing my bit for the aviation industry. Tbf we need a break and my missus struggles with English winters, coming from a tropical country.
 
F-Red said:
That's a very weak viewpoint, to even consider that the virus is being over-hyped due to continual testing. With less testing you would have a higher case rate, and an increase of testing in principle will help lower the case rate as you're finding people with the virus early enough before they spread it.
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Clearly your 'poster of the year' award at some time was before this reply to me. A case of reading what you want to read into what I wrote.

The daily, non-stop media coverage of covid-19 compared to other pandemics , some of it junk science from both sides as a virologist I know who is advising a govt on the pandemic says, is unprecedented. The role of social media is playing a big part and if you think there is no obsessing over this virus as opposed to rational debate in the mass media and society as well as no exploitation of the virus by govts and unelected powers, then cloud dwelling seems your choice.

You picked at the simple fact I mentioned and I will refer to it again - there has never been the mass testing to determine the presence of a virus as there has been with covid-19. The more testing that is done, the more people will turn out to have the virus or at least evidence they had it at some point. Studies on the water supply in Italy for example indicate the virus was around for at least 3 years prior to the outbreak this year.

You're putting a slant on that which is different as well as putting a slant on what I mentioned about the increase in suicide rates linked to job losses and fears for the future.
Nobody is saying that without mass testing we wouldn't be able to take early measures.
The fact that covid-19 to date has been fairly mild for the majority of those who have tested positive for it, makes the over-hype worse.

And enough of digs like 'cloud cuckoo land' - sorry to let you know that people can have different perspectives from you without your feeling threatened enough to trot out the catch-all 'conspiracy' or 'on the way to conspiracy' slurs.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Stressed by the “pandemic talk”? Stressed by the pandemic, you mean. Likewise the job losses.

You seem to be implying that economic hardship and psychological stress is being opportunistically foisted on young people by those in power, just because they can, while ignoring the far more obvious cause i.e. the pandemic itself.

Basically you’re on a slippery slope to cloud cuckoo conspiracy land. Be careful out there.
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Sorry to the poster who I mistakenly quoted, my most recent post was for our friend Pogue. I was addressing his or her clouded interpretation of my post.
 
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