SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)
- Thread starter Don't Kill Bill
- Start date
Check his recent posts. He’s either starting to become unhinged (or already is) or he’s wumming
When you look at the stats back in April, which were around 7,000 cases a day, with a peak of 1,100 deaths a day and compare them to the stats today, 19,000 cases a day to 100-130ish deaths a day in my eyes it's a completely different situation than what we were in. The healthier population are contracting it and not dying. Surely that's a good thing in terms of herd immunity?
Obviously there is the factor of an overworked NHS...
Obviously there is the factor of an overworked NHS...
When you look at the stats back in April, which were around 7,000 cases a day, with a peak of 1,100 deaths a day and compare them to the stats today, 19,000 cases a day to 100-130ish deaths a day in my eyes it's a completely different situation than what we were in. The healthier population are contracting it and not dying. Surely that's a good thing in terms of herd immunity?
Obviously there is the factor of an overworked NHS...
a big part of it was at the peak we weren’t testing widespread like we are now, 7000 cases a day then were drastically higher than that because we weren’t testing people who were dealing with it at home
Needlessly personal!!!
Selfish??? maybe, maybe not. I am struggling, as are many others with the draconian restrictions being put in place. For what???? Is me staying indoors really saving lives? The only reason the restrictions are in place is because of the positive results and not the number of deaths.... So don't get tested is what i am arguing. If i have symptoms, i have to isolate wether the results are positive or negative. No point at all in getting tested if thats the case, if its positive you just go down as yet another stat that Boris can use to further depress the people of his country.
Likewise the track and trace....... pointless. If i scan in somewhere and then get an instruction saying i must isolate as someone in the same place has tested positive - i then have to have 2 weeks off work without pay, due to a slim slim chance i might have caught it. Where as if i dont have the app to scan in, i cant be told to isolate and needn't worry about paying the mortgage!
So yeah, it might be selfish, but this is the world we live in i'm afraid and just because you might disagree, doesn't give you the right to fire words like prick at me. Just disagree with maturity.
If we all shared your opinion, then there would be no point in internet forums!
With each post you somehow manage to come across even more self absorbed. I'm sad there are people like you in this country to be honest, I wish there weren't as many as there seems to be.
You’ve admitted you’re being selfish so we appear to share the same opinion.
What?
We need more and better testing.
If you put a towel over your head we can still see you.
And I don't know how many dog attack fatalities there are worldwide but there were only 48 in the US in 2019 so I'm going to guess it is somewhat less than the 1.1 million we know have died of SARS-CoV-2 infection in 9/10 months.
And have car fatalities stopped? Otherwise these are additional and not alternatives and thus irrelevant.
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I said it might be selfish and so what. Im getting fed up of everything now
Ok, good stats. What is a comparable daily death toll then? I imagine something like lung cancer maybe? but smoking is still legal. In the UK we seem to getting about 50 covid deaths a day, which personally i don't think warrants locking everyone away for. Yes its sad that people are dying and yes i would be gutted if it wiped out a member of my family but these enforcement's have potential to do more harm than good surely.
We’ve not banned smoking but we have banned it in places where you smoking has the potential to harm others, which is essentially what these restrictions are aiming for
There's also the factor of taking a complete gamble with your fitness and any long-term issues that have a possibility of occurring, like cancers or pneumonia becoming a lot more prevalent once you reach old age.When you look at the stats back in April, which were around 7,000 cases a day, with a peak of 1,100 deaths a day and compare them to the stats today, 19,000 cases a day to 100-130ish deaths a day in my eyes it's a completely different situation than what we were in. The healthier population are contracting it and not dying. Surely that's a good thing in terms of herd immunity?
Obviously there is the factor of an overworked NHS...
Between me and my girlfriend alone, she has heard of a friends friend who has died in his 30's, with no clear underlying condition, and I know of someone who now has permanent fibrosis of the lungs, after contracting Covid 5 months ago, then having constant recurring symptoms over that period like high temperature, breathlessness etc. until finally last week he woke up one night unable to breathe, had to be rushed to hospital and now has to take 3 types of medication for the foreseeable future, and can't really walk anywhere without getting out of breath. Also seemed perfectly healthy and fine before this happened.
I don't think it can just be as black and white as either dying or becoming fine and gaining immunity to it. Now months on, there's more stories about immunity going away after a certain period etc. So is herd immunity even viable?
And I know people keep going on about chances of complications being low etc. but do you really want to take the gamble on potentially affecting your health for the rest of your life?
They are all over the World and sometimes it takes you by surprise. People that you thought you knew, when their favorite toys are taken away and some responsibility and empathy is required they turn in to mini psychos that would rather have more people die then them wearing a mask or giving up some pleasures for a while. Many people really are just shite and this COVID situation is doing a good job flashing them out.
On April 8th we had 1,445 deaths. If we do what you suggest, we will likely eclipse that in a few weeks time.
You don’t seem to have any understanding of the implications of the virus or exponential growth.
More people have already died of SARS-CoV-2 in the first 9.5 months of the year than do annually from lung cancer. Lung cancer deaths have also continued at the same pace. You can't opt for one or the other.
Ban smoking tomorrow and it will take years or even decades to hugely reduce lung cancer deaths. COVID restrictions save life and huge health damage NOW. Plus if you let things get further out of hand medical facilities will get overwhelmed and the death rate will probably skyrocket. Liverpool hospitals are already at 90% of capacity.
You are not thinking rationally at all about this.
Have you been talking to my mum again!
help! Eat out
It will be
You have no idea if you think the current measures are draconian!
Feck sake
There have been a lot fewer car fatalities for obvious reasons.
Fewer fatalites from all sorts of things, drunken accidents, flu, other respiratory and heart diseases etc. In an average month, the top 9 leading causes of death would lead to ~ 350 deaths per 100k, while if you take June as a relatively normal month this year, they've led to ~250 or a 29% decline.
Part of that is because the measures taken to reduce transmission for covid have also reduced transmission of other viruses, with can be the causes of death themselves or exacerbate them. Part of it is because the restrictions on movement and other activities lead to fewer dangerous situations. Part of that is because people with these pre-existing conditions have contracted covid on top and that has been attributed as the cause of death. And part of it is presumably due to the change in medical care influencing the diagnoses of chronic conditions causing death, with fewer people going into hospital at earlier stages.
But if you stick with car accidents as the example, more people died in 2 days in April from covid than they did in a typical year in the UK from the road. And yes while deaths are not at that level now, more people have died from Covid since the beginning of August than they do from car accidents in a typical year. So not only is he ignoring the reality that the change in behaviour that has come about because of covid is saving more lives on the road, he's also dramatically underestimated how deadly this virus is in comparison to something more "normal" like road deaths.
And that's ignoring the fact that the number of people that die on the roads is a travesty in the first place, not a barometer we should consider acceptable.
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ok
Ok. Great points. your rationale beats mine hands down.
Yes your right. I don't. Not even sure what exponential means if I'm honest. All i know is that i follow the guidelines and then see videos of people partying in the street and i then ask myself, why the hell am i doing this. We are a million miles away from any form of normality. I read Boris predicted Oct 2021. I just have my fingers crossed he is under promising to over deliver.
This is all very stressful for everyone and some more than others, especially if you are somewhere that is getting smashed again.
A vaccine can't come fast enough.
A vaccine can't come fast enough.
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Well, firstly there were 137 deaths reported yesterday so you’re a few days behind, but that highlights the point exactly. At present it’s a low (compared to spring) number of Daily reported deaths, but without intervention cases will rise, hospitalisation will rise and with it deaths. Fortunately the virus isn’t lethal for everyone, but this is also a key cause of its spread in that those which are not severely affected essentially act as vehicles for the virus. What is evident, is that the more cases there are, the more likely it reaches the more vulnerable part of society. It is a horrible horrible virus.
I understand your thinking with regards to self isolation being enough, but this line of thinking is too focussed on an individual level. The issue isn’t just that you have the virus, it’s who else you may have passed it to, who passed it to you and who else they may have passed it to. It’s an complex web that needs to be traced.
In my view, as a general population, we should be learning to live with it, rather than hoping it is defeated. At least in the short term anyway.
Trolling only works if you sound believable. He is not of that mindset. Never has been. You can’t have thought this.
To your other posts... Every single person in this country should understand exponential growth by now. Just google it.
It’s plain stupid to comment on emotion when you have zero concept of the problem you’re speaking to.
For what it’s worth, I kind of expected proper testing and tracing before Summer ended, and surgical post code specific lockdowns, regularly by now. I would have thought that principle Covid hotspot venues would be identified too.
We have nothing. These new measures are a band aid on a rusty chainsaw wound.
So what, we just jam up the hospitals, meaning there’s no other care available because all the beds are taken by people on ventilators?
I’ve never understood the argument about how cancer (etc) patients will suffer more because of cancelled appointments etc. You’d have thought it’s quite self explanatory that the more the virus spreads, the less beds will be available for non Covid patients.
But what about the dog bites?
For a simple explanation of exponential. If there were 2 cases today, that would be 4 tomorrow, then 8 on Saturday, 16 on Sunday etc.
I agree it’s incredibly frustrating to see individuals showing a clear lack of following the rules, but what we mustn’t do is decide that because they are doing it, I can do it too.
yeah that one was right out of left field.But let's be fair here, we all feel the same way as him on two key points: fed up, and questioning the point of our sacrifice when you see the Liverpool street parties. I think @SiRed has the impression that many people in this discussion don't feel that way, which can drive you a bit mental on top of all of the other pressures.
Just deciding to feck it all and avoid testing is jumping off the deep end alright, but I'm sure a lot of us can relate to feeling on that "edge". But he's walked back from it now, as most of us have, because we have to. It's shit, and you can argue about freedom all day long, but the government aren't the ones restricting our freedom here, the virus is. That's just the reality we need to accept.
Within that we have personal choices to make but the unfortunate truth is, we don't have that many. The virus throws a good counter punch to most moves. Most generations have gone through some version of that and in a few years we can glorify the sacrifice and camaraderie and resilience and all that jazz. But for now the only essential choice is to just get on with it. And venting and discussing crazy escape strategies is part of that, if we're honest about it.
But let's be fair here, we all feel the same way as him on two key points: fed up, and questioning the point of our sacrifice when you see the Liverpool street parties. I think @SiRed has the impression that many people in this discussion don't feel that way, which can drive you a bit mental on top of all of the other pressures.
Just deciding to feck it all and avoid testing is jumping off the deep end alright, but I'm sure a lot of us can relate to feeling on that "edge". But he's walked back from it now, as most of us have, because we have to. It's shit, and you can argue about freedom all day long, but the government aren't the ones restricting our freedom here, the virus is. That's just the reality we need to accept.
Within that we have personal choices to make but the unfortunate truth is, we don't have that many. The virus throws a good counter punch to most moves. Most generations have gone through some version of that and in a few years we can glorify the sacrifice and camaraderie and resilience and all that jazz. But for now the only essential choice is to just get on with it. And venting and discussing crazy escape strategies is part of that, if we're honest about it.
This is a great post. I don’t think @SiRed meant to be as outlandish as he/she appears to others. We are in this together for better or worse! There’s no point in just shouting at people without understanding where they are coming from.
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Thanks Brwned, i feel so calm now reading your post. I am stressing a lot lately!
But let's be fair here, we all feel the same way as him on two key points: fed up, and questioning the point of our sacrifice when you see the Liverpool street parties. I think @SiRed has the impression that many people in this discussion don't feel that way, which can drive you a bit mental on top of all of the other pressures.
Just deciding to feck it all and avoid testing is jumping off the deep end alright, but I'm sure a lot of us can relate to feeling on that "edge". But he's walked back from it now, as most of us have, because we have to. It's shit, and you can argue about freedom all day long, but the government aren't the ones restricting our freedom here, the virus is. That's just the reality we need to accept.
Within that we have personal choices to make but the unfortunate truth is, we don't have that many. The virus throws a good counter punch to most moves. Most generations have gone through some version of that and in a few years we can glorify the sacrifice and camaraderie and resilience and all that jazz. But for now the only essential choice is to just get on with it. And venting and discussing crazy escape strategies is part of that, if we're honest about it.
WHY DOES THE MEWLING ASSHAT KEEP TALKING ABOUT TESTING CAPACITY?!?
Sorry, but this shit really fcuks with me. Why is nobody pulling him up on Testing Capacity being meaningless. It’s his free pass now.
25% of test results returned inside 24 hours.
Am I going fecking mental or are most countries not returning most results in a matter of hours? Many countries are taking minutes.
We are in an alternate reality in England.
Sorry, but this shit really fcuks with me. Why is nobody pulling him up on Testing Capacity being meaningless. It’s his free pass now.
25% of test results returned inside 24 hours.
Am I going fecking mental or are most countries not returning most results in a matter of hours? Many countries are taking minutes.
We are in an alternate reality in England.
Why do they have to? Seems a poorly chosen argument amongst genuine concerns.
At the start of this we all looked at the various examples of how past pandemics have come and gone in waves and no one really doubted that would be the same again.
The question isn't whether they'll stop any future waves occurring again, it's have we got the correct measures in place and are they working properly at the right times. I mean you could stop future waves completely but the impact would be unreasonable.
I don’t think so? Maybe in hospital but doubt the turnaround is that rapid in the community. In Ireland we’re getting community test results back in 24-36 hours and I get the impression this is reasonably prompt. Be interested to hear of experiences from other countries.
Anecdotal from me;
1. UK (May) - NEVER RETURNED.
2. Croatia (July) - 11 hours
3. Germany (August) - 6 hours
4. UK (October) - 4.5 days and counting.
To anyone asking why I’ve had four of the things;
1. I have a history of Tonsillitis leading to ear/nose/throat/chest infection leaving me bedridden for a week or two if not caught early. I was sick as a dog in May. No result.
2. Forced test to visit GP surgery.
3. Forced when transiting through airport.
4. See (1).
Maybe I’m getting a bad rub. It’s infuriating though.
Yeah it sucks for a lot of people. I spoke to a builder the other week who lost his brother to covid and now his mum due to her health has been reduced to living her whole life in her living room because it's too much of a risk to take her anywhere.
That's why I think one way or another life will go more back to normal. You can ask people to put their lives on hold for a short period but you can't ask them to do it indefinitely. The "we're all in this together" mantra, which was never really true in the first place, can only hold up for so long. Particularly now when you have different restrictions and rules applying to different areas.
I think there's a real race to get a vaccine ready by spring because the current situation is going to wear and wear people down and by then there'll be little tolerance left. THe vaccine doesn't have to be 100% effective to allow the situation to become more manageable so I think any remotely effective one would be good news.
Essex is in tier 2, but even though I'm in Essex I'm not in tier 2 I'm in tier 1 because the part of Essex I'm in doesn't count as being the same part of Essex as the rest of Essex. Even though they used the town centre where I live on the news when reporting that Essex was now tier 2.
Also the infection rates in the part of Essex that is in tier 2 are no higher than where I am, and are also quite a bit lower than a lot of places that are remaining in tier 1.
I'm so fecking confused as to what the logic is behind this.
Also the infection rates in the part of Essex that is in tier 2 are no higher than where I am, and are also quite a bit lower than a lot of places that are remaining in tier 1.
I'm so fecking confused as to what the logic is behind this.
Andy Burnham giving the government both barrels.
Who is your MP?
Do you agree that it is "unfair" to put more severe restrictions on Manchester, when Manchester has a more severe outbreak?