SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

DavelinaJolie said:
One thing I have noticed the conspiracy theorists, rather oddly, galvanise around is the desire to get the economy up and running and getting back to work.

Yes, please, let us beg you governments of the world; we need to be free to be wage slaves. This virus shouldn't inhibit our ability to make money for corporations and the Uber-wealthy who reward us with a pittance.

And they call us sheep.
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A lot of people really are struggling though and need that next paycheck from their employer to pay rent, car payment etc. We love to blame big business but loads of us are dependent on it ticking along as well.
(Not that it gives any credence to the theories itself, just think it's plausible that they are really feeling the pressure)
 
Abizzz said:
A lot of people really are struggling though and need that next paycheck from their employer to pay rent, car payment etc. We love to blame big business but loads of us are dependent on it ticking along as well.
(Not that it gives any credence to the theories itself, just think it's plausible that they are really feeling the pressure)
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It is absolutely understandable why people coalesce around conspiracy theories, and I know this has been hard for many people. It's just a shame we have been conditioned to think that things as they are is the only way, and that we can't make something better. Crises should result in reflection and change, but we always seem to rely on our old ways too much.

Anyway, I can feel a warning heading my way for going off-topic if I don't shut up.
 
Bebestation said:
For me, they tried to get kids back to schools and colleges so the adults would be free to boost the economy again by getting back to work & a pattern etc. Adults have to spend alot on kids away from them aswell.

When it comes to parliament, the difference between peoples health and money isnt going to be much.

You can see it now, they close off everywhere apart from London. They continue with schools and Universities when its proven to be a place of growth for the disease etc.
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To begin with the strategy of getting kids back to school was well aligned with getting parents back into offices, but now they've abandoned that I'm not so sure. How else would it impact the economy?

At the end of the day school is the dominant part of a child's life, playing kick about on the street and long summer holidays are great but school is the focal point for most people's social networks until they're out boozing.

Making kids even more reliant on technology for social connection when a majority already think devices pull people apart more than they bring people together, and mental health issues are clearly exacerbated by them, is a legitimate long term concern. You can lose years of adulthood and get them back, in some form or another. You can't get years of childhood back.

Making education a priority for kids and society is an entirely normal thing, it doesn't need to have some sinister motives underlying. Most modern societies have that principle as an essential pillar of society.
 
Tibs said:
I've seen countless videos on my instagram this morning of people I know at Uni, having parties and piss ups in their halls.
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The thing is you can't blame them. We all remember being 18, many of us remember going to uni. We were arseholes.

They shouldn't be there right now, it was a stupid decision to open halls. And regarding Christmas and students travelling, every single one of them will travel home. Of course they're going to. The government can say whatever they want, but there will be hundreds of thousands (millions?) moving around the country. And again, you can't really blame them. "Go to university and sit in your dorm for 3 months". Anyone who expects April levels of cooperation is batshit, yet that seems to be thinking.
 
Brwned said:
To begin with the strategy of getting kids back to school was well aligned with getting parents back into offices, but now they've abandoned that I'm not so sure. How else would it impact the economy?

At the end of the day school is the dominant part of a child's life, playing kick about on the street and long summer holidays are great but school is the focal point for most people's social networks until they're out boozing.

Making kids even more reliant on technology for social connection when a majority already think devices pull people apart more than they bring people together, and mental health issues are clearly exacerbated by them, is a legitimate long term concern. You can lose years of adulthood and get them back, in some form or another. You can't get years of childhood back.

Making education a priority for kids and society is an entirely normal thing, it doesn't need to have some sinister motives underlying. Most modern societies have that principle as an essential pillar of society.
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I get people want education to be this important. But when those kids become adults the Government has shown they don’t give a feck about them. So what’s the benefit? ‘Have a great education but when it’s over, feck you’.
 
acnumber9 said:
I get people want education to be this important. But when those kids become adults the Government has shown they don’t give a feck about them. So what’s the benefit? ‘Have a great education but when it’s over, feck you’.
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Generally speaking a better education provides tools to better deal with the kind of harsh environment you're talking about. If the social safety net is poor, social mobility is poorly supported by the government, the economy is poorly managed etc. then having a better education to fall back on tends to present a wider range of choices to deal with those situations. There's plenty more that could be done in education but it's a pretty much universal finding that it makes later life easier, in easy and harsh environments.

In this case, whether missing out on an entire year of school is particularly consequential is hard to say. Maybe there's an alternative in the meantime that could be very valuable. I can't imagine there's a whole lot of evidence to fall back on. It intuitively makes sense to want to avoid that just in case it has widespread and significant consequences. That's not to say that the way they've implemented things has been right but I would imagine most people agree with the core objective and principles underpinning it.
 
Brwned said:
Generally speaking a better education provides tools to better deal with the kind of harsh environment you're talking about. If the social safety net is poor, social mobility is poorly supported by the government, the economy is poorly managed etc. then having a better education to fall back on tends to present a wider range of choices to deal with those situations. There's plenty more that could be done in education but it's a pretty much universal finding that it makes later life easier, in easy and harsh environments.

In this case, whether missing out on an entire year of school is particularly consequential is hard to say. Maybe there's an alternative in the meantime that could be very valuable. I can't imagine there's a whole lot of evidence to fall back on. It intuitively makes sense to want to avoid that just in case it has widespread and significant consequences. That's not to say that the way they've implemented things has been right but I would imagine most people agree with the core objective and principles underpinning it.
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Yeah but a more balanced approach is surely better still. Not just with this virus but in general. I never understood Governments bragging about investing in education when it was clear they didn’t give a shit what happened when that education was complete. We have the smartest unemployed people around, is that the goal?
 
Why is Robert Peston a person that exists?
 
Interesting Press Conference so far...the idea that the second wave might be more localised to the North of the country is interesting. Potentially much more severe and long term restrictions could be applied here - whilst the South remains more open and keeps the economy going??
 
acnumber9 said:
Yeah but a more balanced approach is surely better still. Not just with this virus but in general. I never understood Governments bragging about investing in education when it was clear they didn’t give a shit what happened when that education was complete. We have the smartest unemployed people around, is that the goal?
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Oh yeah I'd love to see better government support for all sorts of things, and I'm sure there'll be a shit load of stuff they cut back on in the aftermath of this that will be enraging and depressing once more. But on this particular policy on this particular moment, I don't have much to argue with. I absolutely think that we as a society should be willing to male sacrifices to protect education in moments of crisis, even if it exacerbates other issues. Within reason anyway, and right now it seems within reason.
 
Tibs said:
It's a complex situation, and you can't call everyone who breaks the rules selfish. However a portion of them are selfish cnuts
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And even in that article 75% of police investigations found people being compliant. It’s not a headline though.
 
Tibs said:
Interesting Press Conference so far...the idea that the second wave might be more localised to the North of the country is interesting. Potentially much more severe and long term restrictions could be applied here - whilst the South remains more open and keeps the economy going??
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They have no chance of people complying if they start a narrative that somehow London and the South can carry on almost as normal, but the rest of us up north should shut ourselves indoors alone.
 
decorativeed said:
They have no chance of people complying if they start a narrative that somehow London and the South can carry on almost as normal, but the rest of us up north should shut ourselves indoors alone.
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Yep, considering that should have been what happened on first lockdown, leave the north but lockdown the south.

They're going on like the north doesn't have loads of manufacturing and production job roles. Literally the roles needed to keep the country going.

If businesses go bust here it's harder for them to come back.

Not a prayer the north will lock down.

Jon Snow would not allow this for the north!
 
Pogue Mahone said:
One in four people not willing to comply with simple instructions intended to save the lives/livelihood of their friends and families is a depressing enough headline as it is tbh.
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True. Though I’m not convinced quarantining at this stage is going to make the slightest difference. We missed that boat 7 months ago.
 
decorativeed said:
They have no chance of people complying if they start a narrative that somehow London and the South can carry on almost as normal, but the rest of us up north should shut ourselves indoors alone.
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But on the flip side should a town/city that has one case a day get lockdown? There's an argument that more targeted localised messures could have happened even back in March as the South West especially have been left relitevely unscathed even with the reopening of society and tourist flocking down there. Essex was another part of the country that seemed to so alright.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
To be honest, it’s hard to know which measures will/won’t take the edge off this second wave but it’s grim to hear how little buy in there is out there.
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Quarantining people coming from countries with similar infection levels to our own country couldn’t make any difference when people staying in the UK can still go to work etc.
 
So some meat processing plant with 500 employees, all tested and 170 cases, most asymptomatic.

So that's what, 35% who tested positive? Obviously a bit skewed because that all work and mingle together (but how? Aren't workplaces safe?) Which brings you to if a lockdown happens, why aren't workplaces like factories shut? Clearly looking at that spread they're not safe, but really, they are because the majority working in factories are young and it doesn't affect then too much, but they still want to lock those same people down during lockdowns.

I think numbers of people who have already had it are way higher than what government are saying, just there are so many it doesn't affect to never get tested unless they are made to.

All this because some cnut ate a bat.
 
France and Spain with 13 and 11k cases. Spain 177 deaths, 200 yesterday.

I wonder what rate will make Spain go for another lockdown. Last week Spain was around 100 deaths a day on average and seems to be going higher.
 
Tibs said:
Interesting Press Conference so far...the idea that the second wave might be more localised to the North of the country is interesting. Potentially much more severe and long term restrictions could be applied here - whilst the South remains more open and keeps the economy going??
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Maggie Thatcher would be happy.

What date will the next national lock down be?
 
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