Sancho won’t return to Man Utd until he's ready - Way too much inappropriate speculation.

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Real Name said:
Yes, but character background check and mental issues isnt the same thing.
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Kind of is, no? Certain behaviours suggest certain character traits. How does he handle defeat, setbacks, conflicts, feedback etc. All questions that would have been asked at some point.

I’m sure the guys at United know what red flags they’re looking for, they’ve done enough recruitment over the years
 
crossy1686 said:
Kind of is, no? Certain behaviours suggest certain character traits. How does he handle defeat, setbacks, conflicts, feedback etc. All questions that would have been asked at some point.

I’m sure the guys at United know what red flags they’re looking for, they’ve done enough recruitment over the years
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Nah. mental health issues can be hereditary (I believe) but they can also hit people at any point in their life ie due to circumstances or trauma etc.

I’m sure the club does detailed checks but some things you can’t predict or mitigate
 
crossy1686 said:
Kind of is, no? Certain behaviours suggest certain character traits. How does he handle defeat, setbacks, conflicts, feedback etc. All questions that would have been asked at some point.

I’m sure the guys at United know what red flags they’re looking for, they’ve done enough recruitment over the years
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I dont think you can assume from an answer - I deal with setbacks head on - the player wont have mental problems in the future and vice versa. I'm making it simplistic but I hope you get the picture. Background checks doesnt mean a torough psychologist check, not in the sense they can conclude if a player will have mental issues in the future. In any case if a player has a good background check mental issues can nevertheless appear for a host of reasons.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
He’s either a diligent pro who’s been laid low by mental illness or a soft twat who isn’t putting the effort in.

The truth is no doubt somewhere in between…
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Smores said:
Widly speculating that someone might be ill doesn't really seem fair.
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Nice to see the amount of compassion in here, it shows a good side of our fanbase.

Do think it's way over the top though the amount of people piling on, perhaps using their own experiences to project this idea Sancho is "ill" in someway with mental health issues. Would we also diagnose Pepe with mental health issues for flopping? Or Messi last season in france with MH issues as he wasn't in form scoring and assisting every game as he usually does? Or any footballer for that matter that doesn't pull up trees? Need to be careful about throwing around that term around onto a player, I dont think any trial or tribulation that causes you to need to change your approach is immeadiately classed as what we now generally define as "mental health issues".

The truth is probably a lot more simple. He is not running and attempting to go past his man with "tempo dribbles" that ETH says he wants. Sancho often turns and passes back. Rio Ferdinand also mentioned this "why is he not taking his man on".

It is very clearly the difference in league intensity and defensive line, watch Sancho highlights from Dortmund he can do one body feint and the fullbacks, fall over. Into knots. Even the more athletic ones seemed terrified of him. It is not working here. I don't think we need to overcomplicate it into MH struggles that he needs to develop and change his game in a harder league.

His game he used there is not working as effectively here against a higher calibre of athleticism, which is the area everyone knows he lacks in. He is not explosive or fast enough to burst past defenders in a foot race, so he is presumably being drilled routines to attack his man with an end product every time, alongside intense strength and conditioning training.

I do agree its good to err on the side of compassion instead of condemning our players and I am a supporter of MH issues not being stigmatised, but let's not get carried away as well. I remember his pre-season instagram activity hopping on jets, chilling on the beach, posting pics hanging out at events, making videos across youtube, he looked in fine fettle mentally to me so no need to over-egg the MH angle. It just looks a physical, on the pitch confidence issue with what actions he needs to take and his lack of impact so far obviously upset the player who expected more from himself. He says as much here in this clip.

 
EtH said:
Yes, it’s almost 2023. And it’s fancy and all you saying that but stigma is still a very real thing.
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Primarily only among people you wouldnt take advice from to begin with. Mens mental health have reached historical levels in terms of awareness.

The people who are the root cause of stigma are primarily shitstain yokels, who, if they caught fire I would piss on the garbage bin next to them so it would be spared.

Socially, men seeking help for their issues have never been celebrated more.
 
Black Alabaster said:
I do agree its good to err on the side of compassion instead of condemning our players and I am a supporter of MH issues not being stigmatised, but let's not get carried away as well. I remember his pre-season instagram activity hopping on jets, chilling on the beach, posting pics hanging out at events, making videos across youtube, he looked in fine fettle mentally to me so no need to over-egg the MH angle. It just looks a physical, on the pitch confidence issue with what actions he needs to take and his lack of impact so far obviously upset the player who expected more from himself. He says as much here in this clip.

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This is a ton of assumptions na oversimplifications if I ever saw one.

He looked good in instagram videos so that means there are no mental problems at the moment?
Lets not over-egg MH angle cause he hopped on the jets and chilled on the beach?

And you concluded from one clip its probably just on the pitch confidence issue.

All I can say is - my God.
 
Unless it's a façade, Sancho comes across as very chilled person. Of course he's got some level of ego but not enough to make him a toxic character. I would suspect something is going on behind the scenes in his private life. I think that is why ETH is being very coy about when he's coming back and what's up with Sancho. Manager's still have a pastoral responsibility, on top of their other duties. I can't see this as a 'banishment' from the squad as some on online have eluded to. Hopefully we can see Sancho back at United because he's immensely talented. Personally, I think United would be a bad fit for him but it's not impossible for it to work out for him.
 
Real Name said:
This is a ton of assumptions na oversimplifications if I ever saw one.

He looked good in instagram videos so that means there are no mental problems at the moment?
Lets not over-egg MH angle cause he hopped on the jets and chilled on the beach?

And you concluded from one clip its probably just on the pitch confidence issue.

All I can say is - my God.
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If you want to make a very narrow shallow interpretation of one example I posted to support your idea that's quite poor form.

I could post 20 other links of Sancho's activity online this season but you will maybe say he is just hiding his deep issues inside whilst smiling on the outside.

This is the problem with projecting debilitating MH struggless onto someone that you don't know and have never met, but assume you know about because he is not doing well on a football pitch.

It is also plain as day to even the most laymen football watcher, that Sancho has a confidence issue on the pitch. That is the "mental" that ETH in his dutch way of speaking was referring to, I would suggest.
 
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One thing that's I've not seen mentioned here is that he missed our final 4 games before the WC due to illness. ETH gave no indication of what the illness was but perhaps it's all linked in some way too.
 
Real Name said:
So you're saying the club should have known in advance Sancho will have mental problems?
Of all the things to criticize the club for this isnt one of them.
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That's not what I am saying and tbh mistakes will be made irrespective of how well run the club is. What I am saying is that we've been told time and time again that this squad has a weak mentality, that they lack the attitude to win, that they are thin skinned and they would be quite happy to throw the manager under the bridge if placed under pressure. Yet not enough energy is spend to analyse the processes which lead to these players being signed for silly money in the first place, if due diligence had been made regarding whether these players have the attitude to succeed at a club like ours and why the best talent coming from the youth academy keep losing their way. We spent 1B on the squad yet there's nothing that remotely justify that expenditure. Lightening keep hitting the same place time and time again but somehow those responsible are kept in their job.
 
devilish said:
That's not what I am saying and tbh mistakes will be made irrespective of how well run the club is. What I am saying is that we've been told time and time again that this squad has a weak mentality, that they lack the attitude to win, that they are thin skinned and they would be quite happy to throw the manager under the bridge if placed under pressure. Yet not enough energy is spend to analyse the processes which lead to these players being signed for silly money in the first place, if due diligence had been made regarding whether these players have the attitude to succeed at a club like ours and why the best talent coming from the youth academy keep losing their way. We spent 1B on the squad yet there's nothing that remotely justify that expenditure. Lightening keep hitting the same place time and time again but somehow those responsible are kept in their job.
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They aren’t though?
 
The warning signs were there at Dortmund, he had issues there with being late for training due to over sleeping. He hasn't exactly rolled up the sleeves since he arrived. Needs to sort himself out and fast, otherwise look to get rid in the summer. We are a football club not a psychiatric hospital.
 
Elcabron said:
The warning signs were there at Dortmund, he had issues there with being late for training due to over sleeping. He hasn't exactly rolled up the sleeves since he arrived. Needs to sort himself out and fast, otherwise look to get rid in the summer. We are a football club not a psychiatric hospital.
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Another careless comment
 
TheReligion said:
Another careless comment
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Will you continue to pull up every poster though that doesn't react immeadiately with compassion to this news?

I agree with the sentiment you are supporting, but these people also have a fair point too even if it is lacking in empathy.
 
He started this season well contributing with goals, assists and improved performances.

Whatever's going on I hope he comes back stronger than ever.
 
crossy1686 said:
Kind of is, no? Certain behaviours suggest certain character traits. How does he handle defeat, setbacks, conflicts, feedback etc. All questions that would have been asked at some point.

I’m sure the guys at United know what red flags they’re looking for, they’ve done enough recruitment over the years
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TheReligion said:
Nah. mental health issues can be hereditary (I believe) but they can also hit people at any point in their life ie due to circumstances or trauma etc.

I’m sure the club does detailed checks but some things you can’t predict or mitigate
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I think you're talking about different things.

General character traits (i.e. whether someone tends to be driven, hard-working, lazy, confident, quiet, etc.) are things you can certainly try to assess as part of your recruitment strategy. Even outside of football, those are characteristics you try to get a sense of when hiring anybody, even just as part of a normal job interview.

Mental health issues (be it depression, anxiety or more severe issues) are different. First, because they don't particularly align to those previous characteristics. Someone who seems confident, driven and hard-working can suffer from mental health issues just as someone who is more shy, unambitious or less hard-working can. Second, because more generally it can be difficult to tell when someone is struggling with mental health issues unless they actually communicate it. Even in cases of extreme distress where people ultimately pose a threat to their own lives, you often hear their friends or family say they had no idea. It's a bit much to expect someone recruiting for a job to be able to tell from the outside. And third, in this case we wouldn't even be talking about knowing whether someone is suffering from mental health issues but rather being able to predict whether they might at some point in the future, to which the answer for almost everyone will be "yes", to varying degrees.

And even if you could tell that someone might be more prone to mental health struggles than others, the decision to then not employ them on that basis would still be logically and ethically dubious.
 
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crossy1686 said:
Don’t clubs like United regularly do background and character checks? They usually speak to everyone who knows the player to get a good overview of character.
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I think this was a big part of recruitment under SAF, no doubt he found it reasonably easy to get info on potential signings with probably thousands of contacts and friendships in the business. I imagine it just isn't possible to do that so easily, especially young managers or those that don't have the level of connections SAF. It's no doubt why ten Hag was so keen on us getting Martinez and Antony - he knew their character first hand and that reduces the gamble a bit.
 
crossy1686 said:
Don’t clubs like United regularly do background and character checks? They usually speak to everyone who knows the player to get a good overview of character.
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I dont know about now but under Sir Alex definitely. Especially with the British & Irish players.

With the amount of contacts Fergie had up and down the football league, all he had to do was pick up the phone...
 
I hope he gets well soon. We sometimes forget that behind the football player is also a human being, that struggles with live just like the rest of us.

I can't even begin to imagine the pressure that comes with someone paying such a huge amount of money for your work and then you struggle to deliver and along comes all the abuse on social media and in the press. If you aren't the kind of person who can ignore these things 100% it will eventually get to you, especially if you are still young I reckon.
 
ETH is giving him a chance to reset, I like it

his physical condition didn't look up to scratch so hopefully he comes back stronger and with a renewed motivation to succeed here
 
Jesus christ, the legacy of ole continues, if it wasn't players at the club attitude and mentality taking a turn for the worse under him like rashford, lingard, pogba, de gea, martial, it was also signing players with poor mentality (beek, Maguire, bissaka, sancho)
 
Black Alabaster said:
If you want to make a very narrow shallow interpretation of one example I posted to support your idea that's quite poor form.

I could post 20 other links of Sancho's activity online this season but you will maybe say he is just hiding his deep issues inside whilst smiling on the outside.

This is the problem with projecting debilitating MH struggless onto someone that you don't know and have never met, but assume you know about because he is not doing well on a football pitch.

It is also plain as day to even the most laymen football watcher, that Sancho has a confidence issue on the pitch. That is the "mental" that ETH in his dutch way of speaking was referring to, I would suggest.
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You're projecting your assumptions on him in the sense its probably not a mental problem although you dont have a clue about it and you also mention a shallow interpretation after you made one yourself.
Your example is his instagram and youtube which is. Dont know how to call it but incredibly shallow and simplistic.
And all that based on absolutely nothing.
 
No one knows his mental health condition. Depression and or anxiety are most likely and so common and also so very debilitating.
The thing with these illnesses is they are invisible and so misunderstood. You may be lying on a beach looking chilled but inside you are really suffering. Many lifes are lost annually due to suicide from depression. Look to Gary Speed, no one had any idea, loads of compassion after his death… had he been still playing and it come out before that he wasnt playing due to mental health the response would be very mixed as it is on here.
Caroline Flack is another case, she always looked happy and bubbly - she was hounded on social media by trolls and in the press, killed herself then came the compassion..
Robin Williams et al

I hope what ever it is he can recover and we see his immense talents on the pitch again.
Get well soon Jadon.
 
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Lee565 said:
Jesus christ, the legacy of ole continues, if it wasn't players at the club attitude and mentality taking a turn for the worse under him like rashford, lingard, pogba, de gea, martial, it was also signing players with poor mentality (beek, Maguire, bissaka, sancho)
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You're mixing mentality with mental issues.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
This is crazy. And it doesn’t say much for our sports psychologist does it.
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It doesn't look good on Manchester United full stop. I get he has mental health issues but it's rare you see this on the top level (in football anyway) whereby a player becomes unavailable for selection due to it. It's well documented how Iniesta struggled with depression at a time where Barcelona and Spain were dominating world football.
 
Real Name said:
You're mixing mentality with mental issues.
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Aren't both linked, the guy has clearly been underwhelming and the size of our club has likely brought this mental issue on far more than had he been cruising at dortmund
 
Lee565 said:
Aren't both linked, the guy has clearly been underwhelming and the size of our club has likely brought this mental issue on far more than had he been cruising at dortmund
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It can be linked but not always. A player can have a great attitude on the pitch but suffer of depression for instance.
 
Andersonson said:
Imagine if this was Maguire half a year ago the amount of abuse he would still get.
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The abuse he still gets online is vile.

How he has come through it and still can focus on being Club Captain and play on the international stage shows what a strong character he is...

But we are all human and it must get to you...

I hope whatever Sancho is going through he can come back stronger than ever.
 
Real Name said:
It can be linked but not always. A player can have a great attitude on the pitch but suffer of depression for instance.
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Yep.

Five time premier league winner Michael Carrick has spoken about suffering from a two-year period of depression in the middle of his career, for example. Meanwhile Gianluigi Buffon, literally one of the greatest goalkeepers in the history of the game, not only suffered from depression in his early career but also missed at least one game due to a panic attack.

It would be ludicrous to criticise the mentality of either, or their mental strength, or their suitability for top level football, or a decision to recruit them. Yet some of the posts in this thread seem to essentially be arguing for a scenario whereby players like them would effectively be rooted out early in their career as part of the recruitment process. Which even if possible (it isn't) would be patently stupid.
 
PoTMS said:
It doesn't look good on Manchester United full stop. I get he has mental health issues but it's rare you see this on the top level (in football anyway) whereby a player becomes unavailable for selection due to it. It's well documented how Iniesta struggled with depression at a time where Barcelona and Spain were dominating world football.
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It's not as rare as you think. In the past clubs just made up a bullshit injury to explain to he absence.

Christensen at Chelsea for years would miss games due to "illness" which we now know to be mental health related.

I see why they did it. If someone has a cold then everyone knows a player can't really play. If the same player has anxiety issues he gets told by to "man up".
 
sullydnl said:
Yep.

Five time premier league winner Michael Carrick has spoken about suffering from a two-year period of depression in the middle of his career, for example. Meanwhile Gianluigi Buffon, literally one of the greatest goalkeepers in the history of the game, not only suffered from depression in his early career but also missed at least one game due to a panic attack.

It would be ludicrous to criticise the mentality of either, or their mental strength, or their suitability for top level football, or a decision to recruit them. Yet some of the posts in this thread seem to essentially be arguing for a scenario whereby players like them would effectively be rooted out early in their career as part of the recruitment process. Which even if possible (it isn't) would be patently stupid.
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Some of the takes in this thread are too simplistic, lack empathy or downright ignorant or all of it.
 
TheReligion said:
Another careless comment
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Real Name said:
They keep piling up.
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He earns over 300k pw. We are a billon in debt and apparently can't afford to bring in the striker we desperately need. This is in part due to the outlay on Sancho who has been an absolute dud for us so far. He needs to sort himself out and fast. Maybe he will come back stronger after this reset but if he doesn't he needs to be moved on, end of.

All this compassion required etc is based on pure speculation. Nobody in the know has said he has mental health issues. So I'll save the compassion until im told otherwise.
 
PoTMS said:
It doesn't look good on Manchester United full stop. I get he has mental health issues but it's rare you see this on the top level (in football anyway) whereby a player becomes unavailable for selection due to it. It's well documented how Iniesta struggled with depression at a time where Barcelona and Spain were dominating world football.
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Wrong. It’s usually just described as a niggle but it’s not uncommon at all.
 
Elcabron said:
He earns over 300k pw. We are a billon in debt and apparently can't afford to bring in the striker we desperately need. This is in part due to the outlay on Sancho who has been an absolute dud for us so far. He needs to sort himself out and fast. Maybe he will come back stronger after this reset but if he doesn't he needs to be moved on, end of.

All this compassion required etc is based on pure speculation. Nobody in the know has said he has mental health issues. So I'll save the compassion until im told otherwise.
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What’s the relevance?
 
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