Samuel Eto'o

Brad said:
Just a silly thing to say. Eto'o isn't too far off being a goal a game this season. That's not a case of "well he's had more chances". That's a top class striker doing things no other striker in the game is doing right now

Some players can't handle playing for the biggest clubs, with the pressure of expectation every single game. When Kevin Phillips was scoring 30 in a season for Sunderland, was that proof he'd score 50 for United?! Of course not. It just doesn't work like that
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Yeah but Sunderland and Phillips are a totally different level to Liverpool and Torres. Nobody ever thought Phillips could score a similar amount of goals for United. The gulf in quality between the two teams/players in this situation isn't as large as the comparison you have drawn.

I admit this is a totally hypothetical situation and that no arguement can convince everybody. But my opinion is that Villa and Torres would be more clinical in that Barcelona team than Eto'o, based on the fact that I've seen Eto'o miss so many chances this season, and it seems like when Torres gets a chance similar to Eto'o, he buries it. Maybe thats something to do with the supposed difference in ability between the opposition, I'm not sure, but it seems like Torres is more clinical.
 
Ekeke said:
I also might be slightly biased by the fact Villa had the second most assists in the Valencia side come 15th of November last year. I dont have up to date records ;) but that says something about his own ability to create goals for others and also about the ability of his team mates to create goals for him.

Eto'o on the other hand would be behind who in terms of creating goals this season? We could probably list 11 Barcelona players as an answer to that question.

And you might say "Well, thats not Eto'o's role in the side." and you might have a point, but Villa plays the same role so its obviously a perk he has in comparison.
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Hm, let's see.

Eto'o's currently 6th highest assister in his team, Villa's 5th in his team. So yeah, you've got a point which just about works.

We'll never agree, but I do think we'll get a chance to see it this time next season with Villa at Barca and Eto'o somewhere else.
 
I think this summer we could see a lot of moves in the transfer windows.

(Although every season there is a transfer muppet which makes the same prediction)
 
Another thing. Is Barcelona's defence the best defence in the league? Statistically it is, just like the stats say Eto'o has been the best striker in the league this year.

We're talking about a defence though that has been for the most part, Puyol and Pique.

Are they the best defence? Or is their record partly due to how well the team is set up in terms of limiting the opposition's chances of hurting them, just like its set up very well to provide Eto'o the chances needed to hurt the opposition?
 
Ekeke said:
Right. He did indeed do that, but he wasnt scoring a goal a game. So that doesnt have too much relevance to this topic because its not like the other players mentioned arent scoring goals.
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Just pointing out that his goalscoring started way before Barca and that Torres and Villa have a lot to prove in order to reach Eto'o level of consistency throughout seasons.
 
I think were missing the point here. Barcelonas midfield is the best in the world. Yes, its better than ours.

With that midfield, the strikers and defence can only benefit.
 
Brwned said:
Hm, let's see.

Eto'o's currently 6th highest assister in his team, Villa's 5th in his team. So yeah, you've got a point which just about works.

We'll never agree, but I do think we'll get a chance to see it this time next season with Villa at Barca and Eto'o somewhere else.
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6th highest? Thats actually surprised me so thankyou for pointing that out, I clearly wasnt giving him enough respect on that part of his game.

May I ask where you got your stats? As I actually havent found anywhere thats accurate for Valencia's assists and goals this season, I had to tally them myself re-watching all the goals this season.
 
HsJ said:
Yeah but Sunderland and Phillips are a totally different level to Liverpool and Torres. Nobody ever thought Phillips could score a similar amount of goals for United. The gulf in quality between the two teams/players in this situation isn't as large as the comparison you have drawn.

I admit this is a totally hypothetical situation and that no arguement can convince everybody. But my opinion is that Villa and Torres would be more clinical in that Barcelona team than Eto'o, based on the fact that I've seen Eto'o miss so many chances this season, and it seems like when Torres gets a chance similar to Eto'o, he buries it. Maybe thats something to do with the supposed difference in ability between the opposition, I'm not sure, but it seems like Torres is more clinical.
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Last season was the one time in his career Torres has scored notably above a goal every other game, the usual mark of a prolific striker. He's 9 in 24 this season. This is all if's but's and maybe's, but it just seems silly to me to knock the lad scoring more goals than anyone anywhere by a decent distance, by claiming someone else would be even better. He's the one doing it in reality, he's the one that gets the praise

Barcelona might sign Villa and he might bomb. I'm sure a couple of seasons ago people might have thought Henry would just score absolute shit load of goals for Barca, given how many he used to get for Arsenal. Again, just doesn't work like that
 
kouroux said:
Just pointing out that his goalscoring started way before Barca and that Torres and Villa have a lot to prove in order to reach Eto'o level of consistency throughout seasons.
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Er, not really. Villa scored goals at Sporting Gijon too and Torres scored goals for Atletico when they were in the segunda division and then when they were in the primera, despite being 19 at the time.
 
Brad said:
Last season was the one time in his career Torres has scored notably above a goal every other game, the usual mark of a prolific striker. He's 9 in 24 this season. This is all if's but's and maybe's, but it just seems silly to me to knock the lad scoring more goals than anyone anywhere by a decent distance, by claiming someone else would be even better. He's the one doing it in reality, he's the one that gets the praise

Barcelona might sign Villa and he might bomb. I'm sure a couple of seasons ago people might have thought Henry would just score absolute shit load of goals for Barca, given how many he used to get for Arsenal. Again, just doesn't work like that
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How many goals do you think Eto'o would score starting on the left wing each week?
 
Ekeke said:
Another thing. Is Barcelona's defence the best defence in the league? Statistically it is, just like the stats say Eto'o has been the best striker in the league this year.

We're talking about a defence though that has been for the most part, Puyol and Pique.

Are they the best defence? Or is their record partly due to how well the team is set up in terms of limiting the opposition's chances of hurting them, just like its set up very well to provide Eto'o the chances needed to hurt the opposition?
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Doesn't work that way, one's collectively, one's individually.

A team's goals conceded record is for the team as a whole, not just the defence. A team's goals scored record is for the team as a whole. Eto'o's goals scored record is for him on his own.
 
Ekeke said:
Er, not really. Villa scored goals at Sporting Gijon too and Torres scored goals for Atletico when they were in the segunda division and then when they were in the primera, despite being 19 at the time.
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Not really what ?Are you saying that Villa and Torres are as good as Eto'o is right now then ?
 
Brwned said:
Doesn't work that way, one's collectively, one's individually.

A team's goals conceded record is for the team as a whole, not just the defence. A team's goals scored record is for the team as a whole. Eto'o's goals scored record is for him on his own.
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They are both collectively. A lot of Eto'os goals have been from good work of others.

You could say the defensive record is down to Valdes individually then. :nervous:
 
Ekeke said:
When they are on top, yes. Which they havent been in any match since about November. They had a great defensive record and goalscoring record both at the same time when they were top of the league. As soon as they were knocked off the top, they plummetted. Villa has played more minutes than any other player in the league this season, he's been tired in the past few months. Mata too, is just young and playing his first full season and he's been tired and dropped a level from the same time. In the past few months Valencia's attacking play has come undone a little, ironically it coincided with David Silva returning to full fitness. Its a shame he cant be playing next to Mata in full form as well as Villa.

Anyway I'm going on a bit, what I'm saying is that when they are on top form yes, there's lots of creativity from Valencia's players. But they havent been on top form for many months now and in central midfield, they've been pathetic recently. They dont dominate midfields because they dont have the personnel for it, just the aging and under-par legs of Baraja and Albelda as first choice for some reason, despite the partnership not working once this season. They hit teams on the break with the players you listed.



I think you're doing a disservice to Torres here. He's capable of the same. And thats coming from someone the Chief refers to as a "Torres hater". It was a fantastic turn though.
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I actually think they've played better with David Silva and their football has been better to watch with him too but maybe that's just me.

As for Torres, yeah he's class but I just rate Eto'o higher than any other striker except for probably Ibra. You can say Torres would do "just as good or better" than Eto'o but I have no doubts Eto'o could do better at Liverpool than Torres and personally I don't think Torres would do better than Eto'o would at Barca.
 
kouroux said:
Not really what ?Are you saying that Villa and Torres are as good as Eto'o is right now then ?
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I'm saying they all scored goals before playing for the clubs they played for now.

And yes my opinion is they are all as deadly as one another right now, individually.

When you take into account the teams they play for Eto'o comes out the winner because he's playing next to team mates who get the most out of him each week.
 
Ekeke said:
6th highest? Thats actually surprised me so thankyou for pointing that out, I clearly wasnt giving him enough respect on that part of his game.

May I ask where you got your stats? As I actually havent found anywhere thats accurate for Valencia's assists and goals this season, I had to tally them myself re-watching all the goals this season.
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ESPN has stats for everything, although you have to check up things individually.

Eto'o only has two assists all season, but only Alves, Xavi, Messi, Henry and Puyol better him. That'd make him 6th.

Here's Eto'o's stats.
 
Brad said:
Last season was the one time in his career Torres has scored notably above a goal every other game, the usual mark of a prolific striker. He's 9 in 24 this season. This is all if's but's and maybe's, but it just seems silly to me to knock the lad scoring more goals than anyone anywhere by a decent distance, by claiming someone else would be even better. He's the one doing it in reality, he's the one that gets the praise

Barcelona might sign Villa and he might bomb. I'm sure a couple of seasons ago people might have thought Henry would just score absolute shit load of goals for Barca, given how many he used to get for Arsenal. Again, just doesn't work like that
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Yeah, all true. Eto'o has been doing great. I think were all probably being a bit too harsh, any player who scores that amount of goals in a season deserves the praise. Its similar to Ronaldo last season.

But in a hypothetical situation, based on the fact I rate Torres/Villa's finishing higher than Eto'o's, I'd say they would score more goals. But its an irrelevant point considering the circumstances.



What we should really be asking is, how many goals can he realistically get this season? Can he break any records?
 
Ekeke said:
They are both collectively. A lot of Eto'os goals have been from good work of others.

You could say the defensive record is down to Valdes individually then. :nervous:
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:mad:

You're just making a difficult argument that I can't think of a way to prove wrong, but I know it is wrong!
 
AttackingFlair said:
I actually think they've played better with David Silva and their football has been better to watch with him too but maybe that's just me.

As for Torres, yeah he's class but I just rate Eto'o higher than any other striker except for probably Ibra. You can say Torres would do "just as good or better" than Eto'o but I have no doubts Eto'o could do better at Liverpool than Torres and personally I don't think Torres would do better than Eto'o would at Barca.
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Well, I didnt say he'd do better :p But who knows how Torres will develop in the future? We're talking about Eto'o at his peak, which Torres probably hasnt hit yet.

As for Valencia, their football at the start of the season took them to the top of the league and Villa to the top of the scoring charts, with Mata not far off top spot (behind Messi) on the assists chart. Joaquin was playing pants back then and Silva was injured.

Silva had 1 good game since he came back, where he scored 2 great goals. Unfortunately he came back at a time when everything's fallen apart on the pitch and in the past 2 games he's looked as lost as anyone. Villa has been scoring half chances though, which is the only reason they've got any points in the past month. Well Cesar deserves a mention too in the last couple of games, good keeper. Why didnt Spurs play him?
 
I think we can safely assume that Brwned and Ekeke won't agree. Can you at least agree on that?
 
Ekeke said:
Well, I didnt say he'd do better :p But who knows how Torres will develop in the future? We're talking about Eto'o at his peak, which Torres probably hasnt hit yet.

As for Valencia, their football at the start of the season took them to the top of the league and Villa to the top of the scoring charts, with Mata not far off top spot (behind Messi) on the assists chart. Joaquin was playing pants back then and Silva was injured.

Silva had 1 good game since he came back, where he scored 2 great goals. Unfortunately he came back at a time when everything's fallen apart on the pitch and in the past 2 games he's looked as lost as anyone. Villa has been scoring half chances though, which is the only reason they've got any points in the past month. Well Cesar deserves a mention too in the last couple of games, good keeper. Why didnt Spurs play him?
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Was thinking that myself, looked solid last weekend.
 
HsJ said:
I think we can safely assume that Brwned and Ekeke won't agree. Can you at least agree on that?
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I disagree, I think we'll agree on something in this thread.

Like Cesar being a decent keeper, better than Gomes it seems.

:D
 
Brwned said:
Was thinking that myself, looked solid last weekend.
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Exactly what I thought too...

It amazes me that they stuck with Gomes even after his errors...such a strange decision...
 
Brwned said:
:mad:

You're just making a difficult argument that I can't think of a way to prove wrong, but I know it is wrong!
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:lol:

I'm just saying, that midfield section where Barcelona are surely the best in the world, is not to be underestimated. I mean, you were talking about Xavi being possibly the best player in the world the other day werent you? They also have Messi who has been the most productive player in the world this season. So they have 2 possible "best player in the world right now"s coming from that midfield section and they are both known to be team players who create for other players. Thats obviously a huge boost and something Villa and to a slightly lesser extent, Torres, can only dream of. :p
 
Although I do believe that Gomes is not a bad keeper. He proved that at PSV. He just struggles at Tottenham as they keep chopping and changing their back four.
 
Ekeke said:
I'm saying they all scored goals before playing for the clubs they played for now.

And yes my opinion is they are all as deadly as one another right now, individually.

When you take into account the teams they play for Eto'o comes out the winner because he's playing next to team mates who get the most out of him each week.
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We'll never know for sure.What we can say for sure now is that Eto'o is ahead of them
 
Ekeke said:
:lol:

I'm just saying, that midfield section where Barcelona are surely the best in the world, is not to be underestimated. I mean, you were talking about Xavi being possibly the best midfielder in the world the other day werent you? They also have Messi who has been the most productive player in the world this season. So they have 2 possible "best player in the world right now"s coming from that midfield section and they are both known to be team players who create for other players. Thats obviously a huge boost and something Villa and to a slightly lesser extent, Torres, can only dream of. :p
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Undoubtedly the best midfielder in the world. They're the two best players in world football this season IMO.

Very true, I just think Eto'o's made great use of that service, as well as anyone else could.
 
Ekeke said:
:lol:

I'm just saying, that midfield section where Barcelona are surely the best in the world, is not to be underestimated. I mean, you were talking about Xavi being possibly the best midfielder in the world the other day werent you? They also have Messi who has been the most productive player in the world this season. So they have 2 possible "best player in the world right now"s coming from that midfield section and they are both known to be team players who create for other players. Thats obviously a huge boost and something Villa and to a slightly lesser extent, Torres, can only dream of. :p
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Bang on.

Barcelona's midfield on paper and form > any other midfield in the world.
 
HsJ said:
I think were missing the point here. Barcelonas midfield is the best in the world. Yes, its better than ours.

With that midfield, the strikers and defence can only benefit.
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I said this before!!! Damn you!! :mad::mad:
 
HsJ said:
But in a hypothetical situation, based on the fact I rate Torres/Villa's finishing higher than Eto'o's, I'd say they would score more goals.
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I have to completely disagree here. Villa yes, but IMO there is no way Torres' finishing is better than Etoo's
 
crappycraperson said:
I have to completely disagree here. Villa yes, but IMO there is no way Torres' finishing is better than Etoo's
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Fair enough. It probably isnt this season, and in Liverpools team. But on the whole I think that Torres would get more goals if they both had a season in the exact same team. Just an opinion mind, not based on any facts, just from what I've seen.
 
crappycraperson said:
Yeah. Though Etoo is still more likely to score more than him because I reckon he gets himself into more goal scoring positions than Villa.
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Hmm, I'm not sure.

I think Villa's movement is actually better, but Eto'o's reactions are better getting him into the ideal positions to score scrappy goals, but in terms of finishing I think it's a close run thing.

I'd still go for Eto'o if I had to choose though.
 
crappycraperson said:
Yeah. Though Etoo is still more likely to score more than him because I reckon he gets himself into more goal scoring positions than Villa.
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I can almost bring myself to agree with this post. But... Not quite. I cant :angel:

For my money, Eto'o gets found in more goal scoring positions than Villa. Found by team mates, more often, in each match.

I can only say from watching them both regularly, that I believe that although Eto'o is the physically better player (mainly with regards to explosive acceleration and pace), Villa works harder than any other striker in la liga when he's on his game.

He spends from minute 1 to minute 90, making that run on the shoulder of the defender and trying to time his runs for balls in behind the defence. But Villa gets that ball played in about once a game on average, whereas Barcelona are always looking for that pass. And Spain are always looking for that pass, thats why Villa always, always scores for Spain and its usually that type of goal. Ball in behind the defence, Villa latches onto it and places it beyond the keeper.

So I believe that he works himself into at least as many dangerous goal scoring positions as Eto'o, but Eto'o is found more often by club team mates in them and due to his pace advantage, when he times his run right, Eto'o you're even less likely to catch when he gets away from you than Villa.

But when it comes to straight up finishing of chances I'd say Villa is a better finisher both in clear chances and in half-chance situations.

I appreciate not everyone will see things this way and thats okay with me. I personally have no idea how often you each see both players mentioned so I can only speak about what I've seen for myself.
 
Ekeke said:
I can almost bring myself to agree with this post. But... Not quite. I cant :angel:

For my money, Eto'o gets found in more goal scoring positions than Villa. Found by team mates, more often, in each match.

I can only say from watching them both regularly, that I believe that although Eto'o is the physically better player (mainly with regards to explosive acceleration and pace), Villa works harder than any other striker in la liga when he's on his game.

He spends from minute 1 to minute 90, making that run on the shoulder of the defender and trying to time his runs for balls in behind the defence. But Villa gets that ball played in about once a game on average, whereas Barcelona are always looking for that pass. And Spain are always looking for that pass, thats why Villa always, always scores for Spain and its usually that type of goal. Ball in behind the defence, Villa latches onto it and places it beyond the keeper.

So I believe that he works himself into at least as many dangerous goal scoring positions as Eto'o, but Eto'o is found more often by club team mates in them and due to his pace advantage, when he times his run right, Eto'o you're even less likely to catch when he gets away from you than Villa.

But when it comes to straight up finishing of chances I'd say Villa is a better finisher both in clear chances and in half-chance situations.

I appreciate not everyone will see things this way and thats okay with me. I personally have no idea how often you each see both players mentioned so I can only speak about what I've seen for myself.
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I agree with the majority of that, but what about just in and around the bix, looking for flicks off the defenders or the goalkeeper spilling it, would you say Eto'o's reactions are better and because of that he creates those sorts of chances for himself better than Villa?

Because then we're pretty much on the same wavelength.
 
Ekeke said:
I can almost bring myself to agree with this post. But... Not quite. I cant :angel:

For my money, Eto'o gets found in more goal scoring positions than Villa. Found by team mates, more often, in each match.

I can only say from watching them both regularly, that I believe that although Eto'o is the physically better player (mainly with regards to explosive acceleration and pace), Villa works harder than any other striker in la liga when he's on his game.

He spends from minute 1 to minute 90, making that run on the shoulder of the defender and trying to time his runs for balls in behind the defence. But Villa gets that ball played in about once a game on average, whereas Barcelona are always looking for that pass. And Spain are always looking for that pass, thats why Villa always, always scores for Spain and its usually that type of goal. Ball in behind the defence, Villa latches onto it and places it beyond the keeper.

So I believe that he works himself into at least as many dangerous goal scoring positions as Eto'o, but Eto'o is found more often by club team mates in them and due to his pace advantage, when he times his run right, Eto'o you're even less likely to catch when he gets away from you than Villa.

But when it comes to straight up finishing of chances I'd say Villa is a better finisher both in clear chances and in half-chance situations.

I appreciate not everyone will see things this way and thats okay with me. I personally have no idea how often you each see both players mentioned so I can only speak about what I've seen for myself.
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I think I completely agree with this. Well said.
 
Brwned said:
I agree with the majority of that, but what about just in and around the bix, looking for flicks off the defenders or the goalkeeper spilling it, would you say Eto'o's reactions are better and because of that he creates those sorts of chances for himself better than Villa?

Because then we're pretty much on the same wavelength.
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I'm not sure, I think they are both very quick onto any chance that presents itself. I'd find it hard to pick between them.
 
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