Yea it’s mental. “The west is not innocent” part is kind of true though. We allowed to be manipulated by Russia for years and our response to Crimea invasion was diabolic. But the NATO pushing Putin is just a complete nonsense that is being spouted by Nazi supporters like the guy in this video.Not this two sides again. People are still falling for this on 3rd month of this war.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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Precisely. If you want to blame the west/nato in this, it can only be done from the angle that they didn’t do enough to deter Putin in the first place.
I can understand the Ukrainian soldiers calling the Russian troops "orcs". Yes, it's dehumanising, but it's not easy for most soldiers to kill another human being when you can actually see them (i.e. when they are in individually-visible eyesight range), as many studies have shown - so part of their training is designed to overcome this natural barrier.
De-humanising the enemy military is a psychological aid to this process. And if you are fighting a war where it's kill or be killed, there is no space for niceties.
However, extending this to the civilian population of the enemy nation is wrong and not helpful. Some people disagree and say that the civilian Russians support Putin, but this is not by any means especially true or fair. For starters, I'd guess that many Russians don't support Putin, but can't do much about it and so just keep their heads down. And we can hardly rely on Russian voting numbers for evidence of Putin's popularity - these are as rigged as anything else in Russia, with state control of all media and political opponents murdered or jailed. Moreover, many Russians simply don't know what is being done in Ukraine - because the only info they get is from the state media.
Of course there are Russians who do support Putin, quite a lot of them I imagine, but some of that support will be based on lack of knowledge. I don't know what proportion of Russians are ultra-nationalists who positively like Putin's dictatorial rule and aggression, but I'd guess it's a minority.
Very good post and I agree.
Morality aside, I'd say it's also wrong to use dehumanizing language/art from a strategy perspective. What you want is for Russian soldiers to surrender, mutiny or desert. You have to convince them that they're fighting the wrong kind of war. You have to convince them that their leadership treates them like cannon fodder. They give you terrible rations, terrible equipment. Your leaders have massive dachas for themselves and continue to have their hands in your pocket. They're robbing you blind.
Lot of fuss over a drawing.
UN confirms Mariupol evacuation according to the BBC:
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61252785
True. Completely agree.
Big woah if true
Is there something that makes him a bigger Whoa than some of the other senior officers killed? Not challenging you, just interested.
Valery Gerasimov is the Chief of General Staff which means he's the highest ranking officer of the Russian military. He's the guy that sits next to the Minister of Defence (Sergei Shoigu) in those long-table meetings with Vlad.
I meant it about potentionally injuring Russian chief of staff Gerasimov.
Was Simonov important?
Another major general killed is always important, but wounding Gerasimov is definitely the more important part of this article.
No, but nobody is talking about excusing it. Only that there are levels to it. To me it makes a difference if you kill civilians because you just feelnlike it or if a superior tells you to while you know very well that you'll be killed for refusing to follow orders. It puts you into a kind of "them or me" situation.
See, Tolkien created the orcs because he needed cannon fodder his heroes could slaughter without anybody asking moral questions whether it's a bad thing that Gimli and Legolas playfully compete in killing more soldiers of the opponent than the other.
Likening Russian soldiers to orcs is dehumanizing them and against the very values Ukraine defends. And while it might make killing easier for Ukrainians, there's no excuse why uninvolved people do so. The images of teenage Russian POWs at the beginning of the war and devastated Russian mothers who lost their sons were very powerful. Empathy for the enemy helpe us to a) understand bis motives (and exploit them), b) make them turn on their superiors and c) im case of victory, initiate real change in Russia itself.
On the other hand, if they are treated like beasts (and that's what depicting them as such leads to), it will only drive them back into Putins arms. Kill where you have to kill but make it clear to them that you only do it to defend yourself.
Well said.
We can have sympathy for the Orcs once the war is finished. Now, why should we feel any sympathy at all to the invaders?
It's the good, old "just following orders" excuse.
Can we please just keep that Orc stuff elsewhere? It's just a distraction.
No it puts you on the exact same level as the person giving the order.
There's no grey area on this subject, anyone who follows orders (they know to be wrong) and commits atrocities is complicit with those atrocities.
I genuinely hope not but it's brushing dangerously close to it.
I’ve heard that Putin is having/has had an operation? Any chance the surgeon can do us all a favour ?
Only if it is a special operation.
Fecking orcs those soldiers are. And it has got nothing to do with being a Ukranian or not. The cold truth is that an absolute majority of Russian citizens support this war. They also side with Put-ler regarding his opinion about Ukranians as a nation. The sense of arrogance and superiority of majority of Russians towards other nations who were part of USSR is a well-known fact. Hopefully, the war ends asap, Vlad rests in pieces whereas Russian federation is finally governed by a true free-thinker full of empathy.
Not surprising. Children at schools over there are being asked to write letters of support to the soldiers at the front.
Most likely what you've heard is a baseless rumour.
This reminds me somewhat of the Ninja Turtles figurines I got in about 1991-92 with each one in a different branch of the military's uniform. At least the Ninja Turtles were way cooler, and the Gulf War was just.
English translation:
Honestly I don't know how Ukrainian soldiers are restraining themselves enough to take prisoners.
Thanks for that info, I hadn’t registered the part about the wounded guy. I’ve no sympathy at all but it must be fairly awful being a Russian officer right now, a position you’d expect to be highly protected. At the very least it makes it incredibly difficult for the senior executors of this war to continue meeting both with each other and with their subordinates. And in a war that has been badly planned and badly executed that’s pretty much the last thing they need. Hope it continues.
Germany was completely occupied, so German society could be completely turned around. How is that possible in Russia? Germany was completely at zero ( Stunde null ) and shattered, but Russia is very far away from that. To think that you can fundamentally change Russian society from the outside ... is, let's say, ambitious.
Another fire in Russia ...
The BBC reports:
"Fire at a Russian defence ministry site - Belgorod governor
A fire broke out at a Russian defence ministry site close to the Ukrainian border, according to the governor of the Belgorod region.
One person sustained minor injuries, Vyacheslav Gladkov said on Telegram.
The governor of another Russian region near the Ukrainian border, Kursk, said part of a freight railway bridge had collapsed, with no casualties.
"It was sabotage, a criminal case has been opened. The authorities in charge of the investigation will resolve the issue," said governor Roman Starovoyt on Telegram, without naming Ukrainian forces.
Russia has frequently accused Ukraine of attacks on its territory near to the border."
The BBC reports:
"Fire at a Russian defence ministry site - Belgorod governor
A fire broke out at a Russian defence ministry site close to the Ukrainian border, according to the governor of the Belgorod region.
One person sustained minor injuries, Vyacheslav Gladkov said on Telegram.
The governor of another Russian region near the Ukrainian border, Kursk, said part of a freight railway bridge had collapsed, with no casualties.
"It was sabotage, a criminal case has been opened. The authorities in charge of the investigation will resolve the issue," said governor Roman Starovoyt on Telegram, without naming Ukrainian forces.
Russia has frequently accused Ukraine of attacks on its territory near to the border."
You are right, it's ambitious, and I do not know how this could really be achieved.
I think the most "elegant" way to get rid of Russian imperialism would be getting rid of the Russian Federation and breaking it up into smaller states, but I am neither sure if whether that's realistic nor whether it would be possible in a way to solve more problems than this scenario would create.
Putin and his lapdogs must be removed from power and west friendly leaders must take their place. If that ever happens it's important that the west takes the opportunity to build bridges of cooperation and help the country move towards a democracy. But as long as Putins, Kim Jung Uns and Idi Amins run the country nothing will ever change.
That sounds like a very bloody nightmare.
Surely its more than just that style of leader? Surely Russia needs to undergo a massive change in national Psyche as there are bound to be countless others who think in the same way Putin and his cronies do.