I don't understand this post. She's a Unicef Ambassador. What's your objection to her going to Ukraine and doing what she can to show support?
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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I don't understand this post. She's a Unicef Ambassador. What's your objection to her going to Ukraine and doing what she can to show support?
Also: how is going to a war area yourself not using your own voice? And publicity for what?
Very weird post.
I think that's the decisive question. From my perspective, the reason the Russian propaganda works so well is because people want to believe it. Because if they believed that their own government is doing something wrong, it would mean they are morally bliged to do something about it, sort of accepting they're being oppressed AND supported war criminals for far too long. But protesting again would mean putting your life or at least the relative freedom you have at risk. It is easier to just buy into Russian state propaganda to avoid that. It's an easy way out of the cognitive dissonance.
But the moment the state goes for you and wants you to risk your life anyway, that motivation is gone. Your safety or that of your loved ones is suddenly at stake even if you comply.
So that step is very risky for Putin. His position will be much weaker without domestic support. He's really backed himself into a corner this time.
She hasnt been in Kyiv; she has been in Lviv. It is somewhat her (presumably unpaid and voluntary) job to be there.
In this audio-intercept, a Russian soldier says there are 25,900 dead Russians. We can ask, how would he know? But still, it's an oddly specific number.
That painting is quite apt and absolute majority of Russian soldiers are orcs. Most are in it for money. By the way, most of Russian citizens do support what Putin is doing, whereas people like @harms are rarity. Amoung those who are against this russist war, the majority are concerned by their financial well-being rather than the sufferings of Ukranian people. Fecking orcs they are.
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If your son comes home from school, sobbing because Billy from 8th grade called him a cnut, stole his lunch and kicked him in the nuts, saying he hates Billy, you support your kid, try to make him feel better and then try to solve the issue. You don't start telling your kid that he should mature up with the hate-y rhetoric. You don't tell them, while they're still crying, that Billy's mom cheated on his dad with the plumber, which led to their breakup which, in turn, led to a pretty shite socio-economical situation for Billy to grow up in, so "don't say you hate Billy, he's a also a victim here".
All war comes with propaganda, it's a tool of war like any other. One type of propaganda is to gain support of the onlookers, the other type of propaganda is to motivate your own people, those who fight and those who suffer. You can't be serious moaning about Ukrainians going on about Ghost of Kyiv, Poltergeist of Mariupol and Goblin of Lviv if they want to. You also can't demand them to stay emotionally well and mature at all times. Their homes and cities are being destroyed, women and kids raped and murdered, and lies after lies. You have no idea what they are going through, they are surely allowed to vent a bit by drawing a picture of a knight slaying some orcs and make their kids feel safe by telling them about a dude shooting down a Russian plane every minute. I'm glad that we here are so intelligent that we can afford to type paragraphs about the war on a football forum, sometimes you need short and catchy slogans though. The siege mentality thing is not actually Jose's invention, it actually comes from situations like these in Ukraine.
Yes, we will see a surge of russophobia, hatred towards everything Russian, it's a shame, but it is understandable if you put yourself into some bloodied Ukrainian shoes. Let's deal with that after the war is done and Putin is gone. At the moment I have no time for the tragedy of Russians.
All war comes with propaganda, it's a tool of war like any other. One type of propaganda is to gain support of the onlookers, the other type of propaganda is to motivate your own people, those who fight and those who suffer. You can't be serious moaning about Ukrainians going on about Ghost of Kyiv, Poltergeist of Mariupol and Goblin of Lviv if they want to. You also can't demand them to stay emotionally well and mature at all times. Their homes and cities are being destroyed, women and kids raped and murdered, and lies after lies. You have no idea what they are going through, they are surely allowed to vent a bit by drawing a picture of a knight slaying some orcs and make their kids feel safe by telling them about a dude shooting down a Russian plane every minute. I'm glad that we here are so intelligent that we can afford to type paragraphs about the war on a football forum, sometimes you need short and catchy slogans though. The siege mentality thing is not actually Jose's invention, it actually comes from situations like these in Ukraine.
Yes, we will see a surge of russophobia, hatred towards everything Russian, it's a shame, but it is understandable if you put yourself into some bloodied Ukrainian shoes. Let's deal with that after the war is done and Putin is gone. At the moment I have no time for the tragedy of Russians.
How can I ignore somebody if I can’t open their profile?
The main issue is that it’s simply counter-productive. If you want something to change without the total annihilation of one of the countries, dehumanizing one of the sides is not the best option. Basically, the only one who benefits from this is none other than Putin, who can use this in his propaganda, further pushing forward the idea of a global anti-Russian sentiment that needs to be dealt with.
I’ll never argue with a Ukrainian that’s going to call Russians any word that they’ll want. But from someone who’s not directly involved in this war it’s really better to try and to look at this situation with at least some kind of a reserved opinion.
I know for myself that my empathy towards the Russian troops or people who support this war is simply non-existent. I don’t feel any sympathy towards those who are dying on this unjust war even though I know about the ways that they themselves were tricked or forced into it. Just read about mobilization in Donetsk — they are hunting down their own men only to use them as a human shield to protect more valuable forces. And Kadyrov people are there to make sure that you don’t have the option of running away.
So yeah, if you’re not a Ukrainian, trying to behave like a human being instead of getting down on Putin’s level and using the same Nazi rhetoric is probably the way to go, otherwise you’re only enhancing the problem in the long run. All war criminals should be held accountable and trialed for what they’ve done.
If you’re a Ukrainian, do and say whatever though, all of that fancy theory goes out of the way down on the ground.
But I'm not discussing with Ukrainians but with, well, other people who write paragraphs about the war on a football forum.
Well said.
Sorry, but we are all Ukrainians in this.
Sure, I am just a fake "Ukrainian" watching the war in the safety of my living room. But still, it makes my blood boil when I watch the destruction of Mariupol. For what? All this death and destruction ... for what? For nothing! Absolutely nothing. Just because of the moron Putin. And the millions of Russians who have voted for Putin in the past 20 years. So yes, I have no problem imagining Russians as orcs or nazis.
And yes, I know that you and millions of other Russians are nice people, but also in 1940 millions of Germans were nice people, too. Those innocent Germans had (some) responsibility for what happened in Auschwitz, and innocent Russians today have (some) responsibility for what is happening in Mariupol. And I have the right to say this, even though I am not a Jew and I am not a Ukrainian.
Orcs and Nazis shouldn’t be equated. Orc is a race (or even a literally de-humanizing plot device), nazism is an ideology. By calling them orcs you ignore the actual reasons of why all of this is happening, leaving the window open for it to happen again in the future. Do call them nazis or fascists though, they clearly are.
The last thing I want is to escape collective responsibility — believe me, I thought about it more than you and probably anyone else on this forum over the past 2 months. And it has nothing to do with orcs.
Do most soldiers around the world join their country's army because of their love of peace and helping others?
Honestly I find this a bit of a strange argument.
Dehumanizing the chosen enemy is what made Auschwitz possible. It's also what made Bucha or Mariupol possible.
If you think dehumanizing the Russians is right, you aren't much better than them. If at all, as you don't have the excuse of being brainwashed by propaganda.
So please let's stay civil here and value basic human rights, even for the Russians.
It's what separates us from them and is what makes us the better society.
In Baltics, Poland, etc. we’re all very much Ukrainians currently (even on the battlefield field) since 2014, and if you ask any Ukrainian soldier they’ll single us out for the support shown. I agree with you that dehumanizing shouldn’t normally be celebrated but this is also part of the coping mechanism for us here given how close to home this is as past wounds are still fresh for many here. Big problem why with Russia it’s likely to repeat itself again in the future is because to this day there was no collective admission and apology for the past atrocities inflicted on people by Soviet regime in the same way Germany had to go through such processes.
Lots of weirdly focussed energy on here right now.
Add /ignore to the end of their url, I think
It makes everyones blood boil. I have survived a war as a civilian and as a soldier. I lost my home, family and friends to bullets and grenades and still I know that in war nothing is always black and white. I promise you that the majority of the Russian soldiers do not want to be there, if you ever lived through a war you would know that. The monsters are the people orchestrating this war not the people forced in to it.
A russian friend I have in London was told to leave the restaurant where she normally has lunch, because they don't want to serve russians. But it's ok I guess, we're all ukranians and it's a coping mechanism... some people need to get a grip.
Well that’s obviously not right, and what have this anything to do with orcs on the battlefield?
Anyway, it's important not to get too derailed on that topic as, even though I do believe that it's wrong, it's certainly not the first thing that we should be worried about at the moment.
Do you honestly think the random joe who goes all in in the "these russian are inhumane" will differentiate between soldiers on the ground and russian civilians? Especially when the narrative seems to be that the average russian supports the war?
Not the first thing for sure, but we should keep it in mind, especially because of this...
Assuming Ukraine wins the war (which seems more and more likely) we need to make sure that Russia won't attack again. It's not enough to destroy the Russian army, that can be rebuild. The world has to destroy Russian imperialism as an idea, and the comparison to Nazi Germany is a very good one. The world made sure to get rid of their ideas (which was very successful).
And for this to be possible the first thing we all have to acknowledge is that the Russians are people that can be better than what they are doing right now, that they aren't orcs that just have to be exterminated. And when the war is over ways need to be found how to rebuild Russian society in a different way, like it was done with the German society.
Depends which kind of random joe you mean. I believe it is much more unlikely for an English random joe to differentiate than for a Baltic one, who might have Russian neighbours etc, due to the big Russian minority in their countries.
Totally agree, that’s what I tried to say basically. God bless people like @harms, it gives me hope that not all is lost there, and that such voices are just overshadowed by the level of propaganda.
The image is a type of indiscriminate dehumanizing tactics. Those affect a lot more people than the ones you might be initially intending to. History is full of examples like this and it’s never led to anything good.
The random joe in the west. Selling the idea russian soldiers are not human, they're beasts, will obviously spillover to civilians.
How would the restaurant know someone was Russian?
She was a regular for years. Probably came up in conversation at some point.
That never excuses the soldiers carrying out those atrocities though.
Not this two sides again. People are still falling for this on 3rd month of this war.
I’ll get myself banned if I try to respond to this horeshit. Please clean up this thread from baseless Russian propaganda.