Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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It won't be that easy. Artillery range is only 20-30km, that puts them well within striking range of a Ukrainian counter offensive or sporadic attacks especially when considering the size of the country. Plus forward observers won't be able to get close enough to direct accurate fire. The Ukrainian Army is well dug in and the people are living underground so it will be very hard to break through with artillery alone.
Aircraft are the bigger worry and why Ukraine is begging for a no fly zone. That won't happen but more anti aircraft kit would make a difference.
Iran sending missiles onto the US embassy
North Korea testing icbm's
China getting more vocal about Taiwan
India "accidentally" sending a missile into Pakistan
This could escalate into a period of huge world geopolitical issues... And that's without the potential for nuclear or other military escalation in Ukraine
North Korea testing icbm's
China getting more vocal about Taiwan
India "accidentally" sending a missile into Pakistan
This could escalate into a period of huge world geopolitical issues... And that's without the potential for nuclear or other military escalation in Ukraine
Indeed, that whole “End of History” theory didn’t exactly hold up well.
There's a frenzy of pushback against the status quo underway. Current US admin is perceived as hampered by incapable leadership, qualms about taking the fight back to the enemy, and presiding over a divided nation. After the fallout of a pandemic, it's use it or lose it for the world's authoritarian regimes.
What does he propose?
Not saying that it’s the right time, yet, to escalate this. But let’s not pretend there is no loss beyond the loss of life in Ukraine of doing nothing. It might not be today, this year, or even this decade. But every minute we don’t respond to the threat on our way of life, is a minute which boldens people like Putin. It’s not just about state lines and alliances by contract. We are rightly trying to find a solution which doesn’t cause all out war, but our biggest mistake was taking off the table a firm response if needed.
On the plus side Biden would be within his rights to declare martial law and arrest the Republicans who are pushing Russian bullshit on Fox wouldn't he? Could arrest Uncle Rupe as well for that matter, the evil old cnut.
No idea, but found it interesting to hear a German politician talk about escalation of measures, in whichever way he means
He's sending missiles into a city 50 miles from a NATO country... If there isn't any escalation at that then it's a matter of time till he starts shelling people at the crossing points... Is that the time to escalate ... Or do we have to wait till a missile crosses the border ... Or perhaps that's an accident so do we have to wait till several do... And by a few km just to be sure... Or do we just wait till he hits Warsaw?
If Ukraine wanting to join NATO was too much of a threat and in Putin's mind justifies rolling the tanks in then sending missiles to kill civilians 50 miles from a NATO country surely is enough for us to do something
I'm all for recognising st Petersburg as an independent state and launching a special military operation to protect them
Obviously not but putin can't be allowed to get away with how he has acted
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It's hard to summon up the imagination necessary to imagine Biden, Blinken, Harris etc issuing a clear red line after which actions a, b, and c will be taken in such a way that Putin or Lavrov would take them seriously. They'd smirk the threats off.
Gove said the government will begin a scheme where people will be offered £350pcm to host Ukrainian refugees. Minimum 6 months.
Website for sponsor sign up is going up tomorrow (Monday).
However it’s still on Patel and the home office to make it possible for them to come in by either waiving visa requirements or making it possible for them to obtain a visa easily. Nothing on that front yet afaik.
Source: Guardian article
I have zero time for Biden, but I’m getting sick and tired of this constant “we must do more” line that gets thrown at him.
What exactly Do people want him and NATO to do? WW3 will likely end with nuclear strikes across the globe. WW3 will affect hundreds of millions of people.
A NATO intervention at this stage is likely to end the world as we know it. Why can’t people grasp this fact?
What exactly Do people want him and NATO to do? WW3 will likely end with nuclear strikes across the globe. WW3 will affect hundreds of millions of people.
A NATO intervention at this stage is likely to end the world as we know it. Why can’t people grasp this fact?
I know this has come up before but what's the big deal with chemical weapons? Levelling a city with shells and killing many civilians is ok but chemical weapons are beyond the pale?
I am no expert but the issue in my mind is spread. Just look at what happened after that poisoning in the UK.
A city had to be shut down. Imagine if it was on a much bigger scale. Happy to be corrected, of course.
If things weren’t already shitty enough…
50 miles from a NATO country is still not a NATO country. In times of war, everyone plays very close to the lines. So do we have to wait until a missile crosses the border, the answer is yes. The same way that planes taking of from Ukraine isn't the same as planes taking of from a NATO country 50 miles from the Ukraine border.
I think it might be the lingering, slow death that's immoral
Research WWI.
Thanks, it’s a step in the right direction at least. The UKs response to the refugees has been embarrassing.
If we are going to remain inactive about Russia's use of chemical and nuclear weapons in Ukraine, the West should probably stop harping on about human rights issues from now on.
We become part of the global problem.
Countries like Saudi Arabia will just keep on executing people, give us the middle finger, and tell us to mind our own business like we did in Ukraine.
We become part of the global problem.
Countries like Saudi Arabia will just keep on executing people, give us the middle finger, and tell us to mind our own business like we did in Ukraine.
Not only, it's actually not that effective when it spreads. It was "banned" mainly because it causes attrocious suffering before victims die. And to be fair, it was also banned because they're not very effective, especially if the enemy has masks. Basically you end up killing civilians in terrible suffering but don't really hurt your foe's army.
I actually don't really understand why Putin would use chemical weapons, the biggest consequence (bar the death of civilians obviously) will be the images that will be filmed showing suffocating kids and woman, which will shock even pro Russian countries.
Nato doesn't have any "shelling a country close to us" article response. You're presenting this as a salami tactics scenario, but it isn't really. Barring something unprecedented like a chemical, biological or nuclear attack, Nato can't and won't escalate until they are attacked, at which point they have to and will escalate. If bot, World War 3 would have broken out half a dozen times during the cold war.
I think he will use them on russian conscripts... Saying it was a neo Nazi ukranian attack.... Again hoping that the images of teenagers slowly suffocating will be enough to justify him levelling cities
There's also an argument to be had that B and C weapons only purpose is killing people, while shelling has the 'justification' of destroying infrastructure and military positions
I must have forgotten that they were banned, seeing as they've been used a fair bit over the years.
The fact that they're banned and Russia signed up to the agreement in 93 is explanation enough. I suppose the indiscriminate nature and the fact, as someone said, that their only purpose is killing people whereas you could claim you were shelling a legit military target but missed and hit a hospital.
Although, the idea that one small chemical weapon should tip the balance, given everything they've done so far in Ukraine, doesn't sit right with me.
That's unfortunately a possibility, but that would be a very dangerous order to give for him, I'm pretty sure some high ranking officers would decide that he went too far if they were to hear about it.
Justify to whom? He doesn't need it and even if he did he'd just fake it. Think you're stretching here.
I think they'll use chemicals weapons at some point but they'll spin it as a Ukranian accident. They'll hope it's enough to scare Ukraine into surrender.
Remember that by population more than 50% of countries didn't condem the russian action in the UN
There is still a big international audience (China and India for example) they want to keep on side politically and economically
This would give those countries the political cover to at least remain officially neutral
So in the event of WW3, which countries are likely to side with Russia? China, Pakistan and Iran are the ones being mentioned.
In WW2 Germans that were living in Allied countries were placed in POW camps to stop them potentially joining the German Army. In the UK we have a huge community of Asians. Surely we wouldn’t be looking at POW camps etc?
It’s insane to even have to think about these kinds of things.
In WW2 Germans that were living in Allied countries were placed in POW camps to stop them potentially joining the German Army. In the UK we have a huge community of Asians. Surely we wouldn’t be looking at POW camps etc?
It’s insane to even have to think about these kinds of things.
So in the event of WW3, which countries are likely to side with Russia? China, Pakistan and Iran are the ones being mentioned.
In WW2 Germans that were living in Allied countries were placed in POW camps to stop them potentially joining the German Army. In the UK we have a huge community of Asians. Surely we wouldn’t be looking at POW camps etc?
It’s insane to even have to think about these kinds of things.
Pakistan? Not sure about that. Their military is dodgy as feck but as long as they don't depose Khan I couldn't see it.
Our in-laws live just down the road from a big military academy/barracks in Lviv, on the edge of the big Stryiskyi Park if you know the city. Getting a bit anxious now.
Still can’t get over the fact that Lviv is now the centre of the media world.
Still can’t get over the fact that Lviv is now the centre of the media world.
The Orthodox world’s spiritual leader Barthomew I has called for a ceasefire in Ukraine while praising the nation’s “powerful resistance” against invading Russian forces.
Making a rare political intervention during a mass attended by the visiting Greek prime minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the ecumenical patriarch appealed for the violence and bloodshed to end.
Orthodox Christianity is the main religion in Ukraine, split between various strands.
“We are watching the drama of the Ukrainian people and admire its powerful resistance against the invader,” Bartholomew said in unscripted comments from the pulpit. “We appeal for an immediate ceasefire … the war has to end. The United Nations charter explicitly forbids the use of violence in international relations and binds all the organisation’s members to resolve their differences with peaceful means ... an unjust war is happening in the heart of Europe, human blood is being shed, children and women are being killed and towns and villages destroyed. Our thoughts are with our brothers.”
He then thanked Mitsotakis for the assistance Athens has sent to Ukraine which incudes shipments of Kalashnikov rifles and other weapons.
This is not the first time that Bartholomew has sided with Ukraine.
As head of eastern Orthodox Christians, the spiritual leader took the unprecedented step in early 2019 of officially recognising the Orthodox church of Ukraine, granting it the status of autocephaly or self-governorship within the communion of Orthodox churches.
The move, which rendered it independent from the Russian Orthodox Church, caused uproar in Moscow, which subsequently broke ties with the ecumenical patriarchate.
Making a rare political intervention during a mass attended by the visiting Greek prime minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the ecumenical patriarch appealed for the violence and bloodshed to end.
Orthodox Christianity is the main religion in Ukraine, split between various strands.
“We are watching the drama of the Ukrainian people and admire its powerful resistance against the invader,” Bartholomew said in unscripted comments from the pulpit. “We appeal for an immediate ceasefire … the war has to end. The United Nations charter explicitly forbids the use of violence in international relations and binds all the organisation’s members to resolve their differences with peaceful means ... an unjust war is happening in the heart of Europe, human blood is being shed, children and women are being killed and towns and villages destroyed. Our thoughts are with our brothers.”
He then thanked Mitsotakis for the assistance Athens has sent to Ukraine which incudes shipments of Kalashnikov rifles and other weapons.
This is not the first time that Bartholomew has sided with Ukraine.
As head of eastern Orthodox Christians, the spiritual leader took the unprecedented step in early 2019 of officially recognising the Orthodox church of Ukraine, granting it the status of autocephaly or self-governorship within the communion of Orthodox churches.
The move, which rendered it independent from the Russian Orthodox Church, caused uproar in Moscow, which subsequently broke ties with the ecumenical patriarchate.