Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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Well it's kept Putin in his box so far. He's desperate to keep Nato out of this fight.
I do wish Zelensky would stop asking for a no fly zone though. Its never going to happen and its provoking Putin in what is fast becoming a proxy war.
A cnut, and I'm not using that very lightly when that's aimed directly by me at a woman. She is a despicable person of the worst kind.
The American authorities should have done everyone a favor by executing her after she was found guilty of espionage.
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It's not happening, most likely.
Looks like he forgot to fix his gas bill and he's just found out he's on the standard rate
Haven’t followed this thread in a few days, we’ve got some chap who thinks Article 5 is meaningless. The feck happened
So pointless that Putin tried to have Trump make the US leave NATO, which was the plan if he had a second term? Ukraine itself is putting a dent into the Russian army, it would be absolutely destroyed if NATO countries were directly involved. And NATO has directly provided weapons, training & intelligence, along with massive sanctions against Russia, yet Russia has not retaliated vs any NATO nation. So it doesn't seem to be all that pointless.
That's a bit cringe. The pics were taken by his official photographer, and no doubt slightly acted. There's a certain flavour of 'instagram virtue signal' here
I wish I had some of your faith in NATO. I can easily imagine a US president thinking "will I risk a nuke in washington or new york to defend latvia? nah no way". It doesn't seem farfetched at all. I hope we never face that moment, but I can easily see NATO abandoning a peripheral nation if the alternative is a 100% guarantee of global war.
It's a defensive alliance though. It exists to chase aggressors/Russia out of Nato territory. It would never follow them back to their home land, and therefore never justify a nuclear strike against it.
So you solution is for NATO to initiate agression in a war that doesn't directly concern them. Good plan. That's why you are here being brave in a forum while all the actual politicians are out there united in disagreeing with you.
Is Poland ignoring Ukraine then, regardless of a contract. I’m just saying with what I’ve seen already article five means something in a civil society but it will crumble once everyone looks out for their own.
If Ukraine joined NATO in January and russia invaded in February would NATO invoke a no fly zone, fk would they. It’s a detterant and that’s it, it does not go offensive, if Putin feels confident about Norway. Doesn’t bare thinking about really.
No one can be sure of that. NATO would have to bomb targets inside of russia. Who knows how it would go from there...
Couldn't hurt to try. He was brazen banking all his eggs in the western basket, defiant about his burning desire to join NATO. Well here we are.
Being in isolation during the pandemic seems to have had a very negative affect on his psychological state. He has badly miscalculated so many things. He couldn't have believed the sanctions would be so swiftly brutal and that his military would get off to such a calamitous start with ~10k dead in the first couple of weeks. That's a staggering amount.
Whatever his objectives would have been going in, he could end up with a humiliating failure in Ukraine and potentially have a new NATO member on his doorstep in Finland, who share the largest border in Europe with Russia.
It's just a pity the Ukrainians couldn't bomb the shit out of that 60km convoy but apparently they're targeting the fuel supplies with drones which is causing a headache for the Russians.
What was the reason?
Why would it?
That the Ukrainians are not currently using their own planes to the maximum extent possible, probably because the Russians have deployed S400 SAMs within Ukrainian territory, which can easily shoot down most planes. The Ukrainian advantage is not in the skies, but rather one of a well organized and equipped counter-insurgency, which is why things like Stingers, Javelins, Drones, and similar technologies are preferable to planes.
Thanks. It makes sense.
In a war between nato and russia we would see russia bombing nato territory and nato wouldn't cross or attack the russian border? It doesn't seem reasonable.
And NATO would have to try to neutralize strategic facilities. In fact I would bet that NATO would be the first to heavily target Russia.
What makes you think that?
The only time article 5 has been invoked was after 9/11. The response was in Afghanistan itself, not just strengthening the security around US Territory. So with that precedent I believe if Russia attacked NATO territory they would defend their borders and also neutralise at source. Otherwise the waves just keep coming. So in defence I reckon they will have to attack Russian military bases.
You realise big chunks of Ukraine have been occupied by Russia since 2014, years before Zelenskyy was ever involved in politics? He was also by far the most concillatory presidential candidate between Russia and Europe in the last elections, but Putin has had no interest in ever dealing with him.
What’s your alternative history since Zelenskyy came to power where Ukraine would have got its territorial integrity returned whilst maintaining its sovereignty?
I think it’s just obvious, it doesn’t act as one entity, too many different motives, I mean look at the gas situation with Germany and Italy’s designer exports in the sanctions. NATO means Fk all when it comes down to the crunch.
Each country looks after their own and we will see it if it gets bad, I hope it doesn’t.
Sanctions and NATO are entirely unrelated
While I agree with you that it's probably best to not completely trust NATO 100%, I think you're confusing the EU with NATO. They are two separate entities.
Yes, whilst I agree I may have done, I do not think for one minute it’s completely unrelated at all, most EU countries are in NATO, the lines are most definitely blurred.
21 member states are both EU and NATO, let’s not be pedantic.
I wouldn't know whats more risky, a NATO no fly zone, or Anonymous hacking Kremlin TV and just broadcasting this image.
I believe Article 5 will be truly tested in an unprecedented way in the direct threat of a nuclear war. At that point, anything goes.
I trust NATO 99%. They are probably unbeatable in any form of conventional war.
But that 1% of doubt comes when Putin has his missile silos activated and aimed at Washington, London, Paris, Berlin and Madrid.
Exactly, they need to think like this now before it gets worse.
Definitely not returned. Crimea would be absolutely non negotiable for Putin. But what about some other concessions like completely giving up NATO ambition. Sometimes you need to step back to move forward. I believe that was the main thing that pushed Putin over the edge, the absolute red line leading to the full scale invasion. But I could be wrong. Mad Putin may have invaded anyway to expand his territory regardless. It's all speculation of course but I believe with hindsight he would play his cards differently. Knowing that Russia was serious about the attack (up to a few days before the invasion he was still down playing it) , how the west would only offer support from a safe distance and the fact he may still have to meet up with all of Russias demands after so many civilian deaths.
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I don't see why this would appear out of the norm. They are obviously supporting the government, which is why its being done in the open. What would be strange was if anti-Government protests broke out at the same mall.
Dude. The USA is NATO's key player and is not in the EU. There's a huge difference.
Mate really, step away from your keyboard for the night.
First you said Russia was communist, then you said differentiating the EU and NATO is being pedantic. You also got rinsed when you said not risking thermonuclear global armageddon is cowardly.
Seriously, take a break.
So NATO is weak and useless because some member states didn't act as one when imposing economic sanctions?
This sort of "are they being forced???" propaganda does nothing but make any self doubting Russians trust their own government more. Sometimes I am not sure if people are dumb enough to think every Russian is a drone or want to convince themselves of the situation.
There were (still are?) many rednecks who went America feck yeah when they invaded Iraq. No one was forced. It's just ultra nationalists supporting their government.