Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Rod Dreher is such a toolbag. I'm sure he's just angling for another vacation to Russia like he got to Hungary. I've seen the map called out as BS by other people who know more.
Looking at the language on the map ("liberated cites", "special military operation" etc.) I would imagine that it was taken from some Russian site, so yeah, it's hardly reliable.
 
Sanctions will not work and will push the Russians into closer economic ties with the Chinese. Sanctions only hurt ordinary people and usually have the opposite outcome and rally a country behind its leader and against the people imposing the sanctions on them. They never hurt the wealthy and powerful leaders they claim to target. Notice how careful the west are being in selecting sanctions that will do no or little damage to themselves. So yes I do not support action in the form of sanctions that are aimed at destroying the lives or ordinary people, like me, living in Russia.

In terms of this conflict the western media are every bit as culpable as the Russian state run media. My statement is not an assertion it is based on solid evidence. Have you not been watching and reading western media coverage? Both the west and Russia are feeding their respective publics with outright propaganda. Perhaps you would like to share an example of our wonderful news media and its impartiality in relation to this conflict.
I'm all for objectivity. This is, however, not true. Not even close.

Putin is doing this to denazify Ukraine, which isn't really a country anyway, and to protect the people of Donbass and Luhansk. Ukrainian soldiers are bombing schools and apartment buildings. They are using civilians as human shields. Before this special military operation, NATO wanted to destroy Russia.

Nothing here is really true. Is it?

As for Western media, the only blatant lie they're peddling is that NATO is completely innocent in the run up to this whole shitshow. And yes, we are all aware of American hypocrisy. This is a question about the media.
 
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Sanctions will not work and will push the Russians into closer economic ties with the Chinese. Sanctions only hurt ordinary people and usually have the opposite outcome and rally a country behind its leader and against the people imposing the sanctions on them. They never hurt the wealthy and powerful leaders they claim to target. Notice how careful the west are being in selecting sanctions that will do no or little damage to themselves. So yes I do not support action in the form of sanctions that are aimed at destroying the lives or ordinary people, like me, living in Russia.

In terms of this conflict the western media are every bit as culpable as the Russian state run media. My statement is not an assertion it is based on solid evidence. Have you not been watching and reading western media coverage? Both the west and Russia are feeding their respective publics with outright propaganda. Perhaps you would like to share an example of our wonderful news media and its impartiality in relation to this conflict.

Do you have the concept that 2 sides may both not be pure in intent or action but with one still being much worse than the other?

If I randomly flick your ear and you then decide to cut off my legs and then shoot my head off with a shotgun, are we equally culpable because we've both done something wrong?
 
I'm all for objectivity. This is, however, not true. Not even close.

It really is not close at all.
Which is precisely why Russia has started to massively restrict the freedom of speech in many ways and throws protestors into jail. Everybody knows their story only works if everyone else is not able to tell the other side. Obviously we're biased politically, but nowhere have I found any sign of significant restriction of freedom of speech and the likes here. We also broadcast what Russian officials have to say about this special military operation to denazify the Ukraine from the jewish president.
Also, to generalize western media into one entity is unreasonable, considering the completely different character of the different western media channels. You can't even compare FOX to CNN, nevermind FOX to ARD/ZDF from Germany.
 
It really is not close at all.
Which is precisely why Russia has started to massively restrict the freedom of speech in many ways and throws protestors into jail. Everybody knows their story only works if everyone else is not able to tell the other side. Obviously we're biased politically, but nowhere have I found any sign of significant restriction of freedom of speech and the likes here. We also broadcast what Russian officials have to say about this special military operation to denazify the Ukraine from the jewish president.
Also, to generalize western media into one entity is unreasonable, considering the completely different character of the different western media channels. You can't even compare FOX to CNN, nevermind FOX to ARD/ZDF from Germany.
Exactly
 
They’d realise as soon as they down an American pilot of course. Then America would be fighting Russia and China. Real brainy stuff from trump
4d chess again. You use Chinese American pilots!!! We turn Russia and China on each other and we reduce white replacement in the USA! LOCK HER UP! BUILD THE WALL!
 


This fecking idiot was President of the United States for four years and got over 70m votes for reelection. Jesus.

Nobody knows more about war than him. That is a genius move.
 
high ranked german military (responsible für Russia+Moscow especially) I know very well since childhood openly just said to me he's personally got the impression that Putin's gone pathologically crazy and everything seemed possible at this moment :nervous:
Nothing new, as this was speculated before, but kind of frightening to hear it from someone whom's judgement you'd trust without any hesitation.
 
It's probably worth mentioning that you have to change "e" in "fecking" to "u" to open the link as caf autocorrects it.

Thanks for the heads up, fascinating video, let's hope more Russians are willing to surrender rather than continue to kill or die themselves. Those lads come across as both brave and honourable, as I'm sure are the majority of the Russian forces who've been thrown into this shitty war. Turn around, march on the Kremlin, lop all the snakes' heads off and take back your country.
 
high ranked german military (responsible für Russia+Moscow especially) I know very well since childhood openly just said to me he's personally got the impression that Putin's gone pathologically crazy and everything seemed possible at this moment :nervous:
Nothing new, as this was speculated before, but kind of frightening to hear it from someone whom's judgement you'd trust without any hesitation.

If so, I reckon he’s gonna be topped (or toppled) by the end of the month. At which point they’re going to be so dependent on China that whoever is in charge in Moscow will be China’s puppet.

My distinct impression is that right now both China and USA are sitting back waiting for him to blow a fuse and then he’s gone.
 
If so, I reckon he’s gonna be topped (or toppled) by the end of the month. At which point they’re going to be so dependent on China that whoever is in charge in Moscow will be China’s puppet.

My distinct impression is that right now both China and USA are sitting back waiting for him to blow a fuse and then he’s gone.

Regime change would be the best thing that can happen at the moment, imo. It would open up the possibility for the west to lift the sanctions and start integrating Russia again, which is why I'm not 100% sure that whoever would be in charge in Moscow would be China's puppet. Ideally, he doesn't get killed but gets a fair trial and then rots in a cell forever. Unfortunately, I don't expect this to happen anytime soon.
 
Regime change would be the best thing that can happen at the moment, imo. It would open up the possibility for the west to lift the sanctions and start integrating Russia again, which is why I'm not 100% sure that whoever would be in charge in Moscow would be China's puppet. Ideally, he doesn't get killed but gets a fair trial and then rots in a cell forever. Unfortunately, I don't expect this to happen anytime soon.
He is too dangerous to be kept alive. Like Palpatine.

Putin dying on his sleep as soon as possible, followed by Russian leaders setting the blame exclusively on him and Russia being reintegrated in the West would be the best possible scenario.

I think it is hard to see it happening. He might be an irrational actor now and have gone mad, but he is still paranoid as feck, so a coup probably does not have a good chance of happening.
 
He is too dangerous to be kept alive. Like Palpatine.

Putin dying on his sleep as soon as possible, followed by Russian leaders setting the blame exclusively on him and Russia being reintegrated in the West would be the best possible scenario.

I think it is hard to see it happening. He might be an irrational actor now and have gone mad, but he is still paranoid as feck, so a coup probably does not have a good chance of happening.

Well, turned out well with Palpatine, didn't it? I'd prefer him alive, as the whole process of overthrowing him and trialing him would mean true legitimation of a new Russian government and them being able to blame it all on him personally. No need for conspiracy theories about his death for ongoing decades and how the west staged the coup and the likes. The cleanest end for the sake of the whole world would be Den Haag and then a cell till he dies of natural causes.
Don't think there's much of a chance at this moment for this to happen either, unfortunately.
 
If the reports are true r.e. Belarus that's surely the end of all this nonsense for Putin. One revolution in the Ukraine caused this war. Surely they won't go in to Belarussia as well.if they do the same thing and overthrow that idiot Lukashenko.
 
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If the reports are true r.e. Belarus that's surely the end of all this nonsense for Putin. One revolution in the Ukraine caused this war. Surely they won't go in to Belarussia as well.if they do the same thing and overthrow that idiot Lavrov.
It's hard to fully understand what you're saying here (do you mean Lukashenko & not Lavrov?), but nothing that's been reported about Belarus' so far changes anything about this situation.
 
Regime change would be the best thing that can happen at the moment, imo. It would open up the possibility for the west to lift the sanctions and start integrating Russia again, which is why I'm not 100% sure that whoever would be in charge in Moscow would be China's puppet. Ideally, he doesn't get killed but gets a fair trial and then rots in a cell forever. Unfortunately, I don't expect this to happen anytime soon.

Don't think dictators like Putin tend to just ride off quietly into the night. They tend to either die violently or die whilst in power. Sometimes they get exiled I guess but where would he go? Could you imagine him ever going?
 
Interesting thread
Yes but she can be proven wrong with a decent grasp of history because it's all a question of timescale if nothing else. The Tsars were deposed, the USSR fell. Putin and his regime will end too. It's just unfortunate that each chapter of Russian history seems to end with the phrase "and then it got worse".
 
Interesting thread


A good summation on the oligarchs by the way, people in the West really don't seem to understand their position in this regime (I blame the usage of the same term that was used in regards to Berezovsky, Khodorkivsky & the likes). Generally I agree with her line of thinking, sadly. The only way for this to change is the rapid growth of a protest movement from the ground up (which will force the elites to act in order to try & preserve the system) and I'm not sure if that's happening any time soon.
 
Don't think dictators like Putin tend to just ride off quietly into the night. They tend to either die violently or die whilst in power. Sometimes they get exiled I guess but where would he go? Could you imagine him ever going?

No, I couldn't imagine him going by his own choice, even if pressure is applied. The only way to get rid of him, is by force, for sure. But that does not necessarily mean force that kills someone.
Historically speaking, you're right with your assumption of dictators not just riding off quietly into the night. However, Putin is a special case and a coup against him, pushed by his own high ranked military commanders and then him getting trialed in Den Haag, getting punished for his actions, wouldn't really be my idea of someone riding off quietly into the night. It's most likely not going to happen, but it would be the ideal outcome imo.
 
Speaking of how Russians perceive those things. This is the numbers from WCIOM, which is a government-owned Russian sociological institution, so the important thing here are not the absolute numbers (they are hardly trustworthy), but the main trends in perception of this war by different groups of people, which are represented with relative accuracy.

1. The red line is those who do not support the "military operation", the black line is those who had struggled to answer
2. The scale on the left is the % of respondents
3. The scale on the bottom is the age of respondents

You can see that the graph takes a drastic turn down at mid 30's/40's.

VVEucG5n.webp



This is a more complicated graph, but I'll try to explain it.

The main question is: Do you watch TV daily? Those in the column "ДА" do, those in the column "НЕТ" don't.
The four bars in the left are different age gaps — from 18 to 30 on the left to 60+ on the right.
Red colour in those bars represents those who are against the war, the right one — those who support it, the grey one are those who don't have an opinion on the matter.
You can see that in each gap the "НЕТ" column has a lot more red in it, which is more than understandable — those who don't watch TV would be less influenced by Russian propaganda.

eFEucG5n.webp



Again, the important thing are the trends of how those groups are splitting in comparison to each other — for example younger people support the war less for multiple reasons, and not the actual absolute numbers in %'s as those are going to be significantly altered by the government-owned sociological institution that conducted the study.
 
Speaking of how Russians perceive those things. This is the numbers from WCIOM, which is a government-owned Russian sociological institution, so the important thing here are not the absolute numbers (they are hardly trustworthy), but the main trends in perception of this war by different groups of people, which are represented with relative accuracy.

1. The red line is those who do not support the "military operation", the black line is those who had struggled to answer
2. The scale on the left is the % of respondents
3. The scale on the bottom is the age of respondents

You can see that the graph takes a drastic turn down at mid 30's/40's.

VVEucG5n.webp



This is a more complicated graph, but I'll try to explain it.

The main question is: Do you watch TV daily? Those in the column "ДА" do, those in the column "НЕТ" don't.
The four bars in the left are different age gaps — from 18 to 30 on the left to 60+ on the right.
Red colour in those bars represents those who are against the war, the right one — those who support it, the grey one are those who don't have an opinion on the matter.
You can see that in each gap the "НЕТ" column has a lot more red in it, which is more than understandable — those who don't watch TV would be less influenced by Russian propaganda.

eFEucG5n.webp



Again, the important thing are the trends of how those groups are splitting in comparison to each other — for example younger people support the war less for multiple reasons, and not the actual absolute numbers in %'s as those are going to be significantly altered by the government-owned sociological institution that conducted the study.
Thanks @harms, you're doing a great job in here. Stay safe!
 
More than 1000 people were arrested just today for participating in anti-war protests in Russia and the day has just started (the actual number is most likely much higher but those are the cases that's already been confirmed).

edit: while I was typing it the number of confirmed arrests had risen from 600+ to 1015+

A little of the old ultra-violence:

 
More than 1000 people were arrested just today for participating in anti-war protests in Russia and the day has just started (the actual number is most likely much higher but those are the cases that's already been confirmed).

edit: while I was typing it the number of confirmed arrests had risen from 600+ to 1015+

A little of the old ultra-violence:



This is madness. Is Putin trying to put the genie back into the bottle? The only way this is sustainable is to go North Korea and into some hermit kingdom. Everyone's got a phone/camera.

Does he want to jail millions?
 
Does he want to jail millions?

he'll do whatever he deems necessary to follow through with this plans and considering he's letting people get killed by the thousands, I don't think he really cares or even thinks for a minute about jailing thousands
 
he'll do whatever he deems necessary to follow through with this plans and considering he's letting people get killed by the thousands, I don't think he really cares or even thinks for a minute about jailing thousands

He will land up dying like Gaddafi.