Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Losing 5000 soldiers out of 1m or whatever they have might not phase Putin. But losing 5 fighter jets a day might. They only have a few hundred of them.

I don't think he cares about loss of life. The humiliations of endless military hardware getting destroyed and publicized on TV and social media, are going to bother him imo since he is very big on the propaganda of perception.
 
`Assuming this is true of course. Reports of fuel shortages, with no actual evidence to back this up. So far the western military experts being paraded by the media have got nearly everything wrong. They make assertions with nothing to back those assertions up. Even dreaming up ridiculous stories about the Russians preparing a false flag attack. Using crisis actors as Russian casualties. This sort of nonsense would not look out of place on a QAnon website. What about the capture of Europes largest nuclear power station. These so called experts didn't see that one coming, did they. The trouble is that we in the west are being fed a totally one sided view by a media that is supposed to impartial. About as impartial as the state run TV in Russia. One thing is certain about these sanctions is that it will push the Russians into closer political and economic ties with China and is incredibly myopic.

So, you believe that BBC is as impartial as the state run TV in Russia. Realy???
 
Losing 5000 soldiers out of 1m or whatever they have might not phase Putin. But losing 5 fighter jets a day might. They only have a few hundred of them.
I highly doubt they have 1M soldiers. Maybe if they had a draft they can have they many ready to go. But if they had that many men they wouldn't need to ask Belarus to send their men in, and many of the men in Ukraine right now are from as far as Siberia
 
Wow.

But don't worry, I'm sure China will step in with their own payment system. 4D chess by Putin and all that.

China will be doing vulture capitalism on Putin after this. So many of the projects that Russia has ongoing will need financing if they are to go forward. The Yamal gas project for example. So little to gain from this Ukrainian Project and so much to lose overall.

Putin might as well get used to being called Pukim very soon.
 
I highly doubt they have 1M soldiers. Maybe if they had a draft they can have they many ready to go. But if they had that many men they wouldn't need to ask Belarus to send their men in, and many of the men in Ukraine right now are from as far as Siberia
Not only that, but even if they did raise 1m conscripts, they’ve proven that they lack the ability to supply them.
 
So, you believe that BBC is as impartial as the state run TV in Russia. Realy???

Yes he clearly does when he says this.
The overwhelming majority of the population get their information from the BBC, ITV, Sky, Fox News, CNN news and and newspapers owned by huge multinational corporations. This is what shapes public opinion. Self censorship may be much smarter than Putins state control but every bit as deceptive and it is naivety in the extreme to think otherwise.

It is beyond delusional to compare the 2. Trump's populism has done some damage.
 
Could you imagine what a cluster feck the international response would have been if Trump were in charge? He would probably have invaded Taiwan by mistake.
 
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Wow.

But don't worry, I'm sure China will step in with their own payment system. 4D chess by Putin and all that.
:lol:It's the first step in forcing the world buy oil in yuan, making us all use WeChat Pay.
 
Could you imagine what a cluster feck the international response would have been if Trump were in charge? He would probably have invaded Taiwan by mistake.
Bolton's assertion that Putin was waiting for Trump's second term withdrawal of the US from NATO is giving everyone ex post facto cover from the possibility that Putin really didn't invade Ukraine because he viewed Trump as likely to respond in near kind. Trump is/was a kind of US leader that has rarely been seen: a full on American nationalist. Also:
- egomaniacal
- liable to take everything politically as personal
- monomythical
- dangerously impulsive
In other words, someone Putin could understand and relate to. Trump would have seen doing Ukraine like Putin has 'on his watch' as a declaration that he, Trump, and America are now marginal and weak as piss. Trump taking the US out of NATO sounds credible because of Trump's verbal diarrhea. But it would have had absolute zero support amongst Republicans and been no more than a mad bluster to make the Germans cough up. Which Putin has just got them to do.
 
Bolton's assertion that Putin was waiting for Trump's second term withdrawal of the US from NATO is giving everyone ex post facto cover from the possibility that Putin really didn't invade Ukraine because he viewed Trump as likely to respond in near kind. Trump is/was a kind of US leader that has rarely been seen: a full on American nationalist. Also:
- egomaniacal
- liable to take everything politically as personal
- monomythical
- dangerously impulsive
In other words, someone Putin could understand and relate to. Trump would have seen doing Ukraine like Putin has 'on his watch' as a declaration that he, Trump, and America are now marginal and weak as piss. Trump taking the US out of NATO sounds credible because of Trump's verbal diarrhea. But it would have had absolute zero support amongst Republicans and been no more than a mad bluster to make the Germans cough up. Which Putin has just got them to do.

Except he told Mark Esper that he'd do it after he won reelection. Trump sewed discord amongst NATO and between the US and EU. He was constantly antagonizing the countries the US needs most as partners on the world stage. Trump could withdraw the US from NATO without any congressional oversight so there's nothing the GOP could do to stop him. Trump changed his platform to minimize Ukraine and only did anything to benefit Ukraine because overwhelming support in Congress left him no choice. He still tried to delay aid to Ukraine in his attempts to extort Zelensky into helping his campaign.
 
Could you imagine what a cluster feck the international response would have been if Trump were in charge? He would probably have invaded Taiwan by mistake.
Trump wouldn't give a shit. He said Russia was in its right taking Crimea. He repeatedly prevented arming Ukraine. And he might have pulled the US out of NATO, which would have incentivized Germany, Italy, and France to arm themselves accordingly.

But Trump's methods could also have worked in another way, bringing Russia closer to a Western block that had become less democratic and a bit friendlier to Putin's authoritarianism.
 
Except he told Mark Esper that he'd do it after he won reelection. Trump sewed discord amongst NATO and between the US and EU. He was constantly antagonizing the countries the US needs most as partners on the world stage. Trump could withdraw the US from NATO without any congressional oversight so there's nothing the GOP could do to stop him.
So now because Trump told someone he'd do something he'd do it? Everything to him was a bizarre portal to negotiations more on his terms. He was also 'very clear", for example, that he wanted to pull US troops from South Korea. Stuff and nonsense to (successfully) get SK to pay more for hosting 28,000 troops.

Edit: Not, by the way, backing his methods or goals. But anyone who claims they absolutely know what Trump's reaction would be to the Ukraine conflict is talking shite.
 
So now because Trump told someone he'd do something he'd do it? Everything to him was a bizarre portal to negotiations more on his terms. He was also 'very clear", for example, that he wanted to pull US troops from South Korea. Stuff and nonsense to (successfully) get SK to pay more for hosting 28,000 troops.

He tried to do it in his first term but was told he couldn't because it would hurt his support. His "negotiations" are the result of him being too stupid to grasp the concept of mutual benefit. He constantly talked about Germany needing to "pay more" to NATO as if the Germans owed the US money, which is complete nonsense. Many things he tried to do were slow-rolled or blocked by his own administration, like his attempts to move troops out of Germany.

Also, he demanded a 500% increase in funding from South Korea and got 8%. Great negotiator.
 


This fecking idiot was President of the United States for four years and got over 70m votes for reelection. Jesus.
 
Except he told Mark Esper that he'd do it after he won reelection. Trump sewed discord amongst NATO and between the US and EU. He was constantly antagonizing the countries the US needs most as partners on the world stage. Trump could withdraw the US from NATO without any congressional oversight so there's nothing the GOP could do to stop him. Trump changed his platform to minimize Ukraine and only did anything to benefit Ukraine because overwhelming support in Congress left him no choice. He still tried to delay aid to Ukraine in his attempts to extort Zelensky into helping his campaign.

:nervous: :nervous: Is that right? Its not like the Paris Accord. The levels of commitment to NATO is vastly different.
 
:nervous: :nervous: Is that right? Its not like the Paris Accord. The levels of commitment to NATO is vastly different.

He withdrew from several treaties with Russia, including the Open Skies Treaty and Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile Treaty. It takes a 2/3 majority to ratify a treaty (hence the US not ratifying the UN Law of the Seas), but it apparently only takes the president to withdraw from one.

There should be congressional approval for withdrawal, imo.
 
He tried to do it in his first term but was told he couldn't because it would hurt his support. His "negotiations" are the result of him being too stupid to grasp the concept of mutual benefit. He constantly talked about Germany needing to "pay more" to NATO as if the Germans owed the US money, which is complete nonsense. Many things he tried to do were slow-rolled or blocked by his own administration, like his attempts to move troops out of Germany.
Also, he demanded a 500% increase in funding from South Korea and got 8%. Great negotiator.
13.9%. But no, he isn't a great negotiator. Nor is he too stupid to grasp the concept of mutual benefit. He just doesn't believe in it. Every man and his dog knew the Germans didn't meet the 2% NATO target, whether Trump garbles the notion as "paying more" to the US or not. They will now. Trump wasn't a multilateralist or ally-cultivator. But we know he believed the US was number one and enjoyed death-consequential stunts like detonating the largest ordinance in the US arsenal when Xi was round for tea. Hence, you have little idea how he would have handled the current war in Europe. Certainly talk of Armageddon would have had more basis in reality.
 


This fecking idiot was President of the United States for four years and got over 70m votes for reelection. Jesus.

He has the best foreign policy.

Sounds like something a child would say & it’s lapped up willingly by his worthless supporters.
 
If Russia can conquer Ukraine, I still consider Russia as a loser from this war. The reasons are due to their economic situations and a lot of boycotts.
 
Sanctions will not work and will push the Russians into closer economic ties with the Chinese. Sanctions only hurt ordinary people and usually have the opposite outcome and rally a country behind its leader and against the people imposing the sanctions on them. They never hurt the wealthy and powerful leaders they claim to target. Notice how careful the west are being in selecting sanctions that will do no or little damage to themselves. So yes I do not support action in the form of sanctions that are aimed at destroying the lives or ordinary people, like me, living in Russia.

In terms of this conflict the western media are every bit as culpable as the Russian state run media. My statement is not an assertion it is based on solid evidence. Have you not been watching and reading western media coverage? Both the west and Russia are feeding their respective publics with outright propaganda. Perhaps you would like to share an example of our wonderful news media and its impartiality in relation to this conflict.
As I asked in my original post, what should we be doing if not sanctions? Nothing?
 


This fecking idiot was President of the United States for four years and got over 70m votes for reelection. Jesus.


What a cnut. People like him deserve to be locked up in a mental institution, gagged when not fed, put into a straightjacket, and fed with porridge for the rest of his pathetic existence.
 
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As I asked in my original post, what should we be doing if not sanctions? Nothing?
The logic of the targets of sanctions is always the same. Please stop doing the sanctions that aren't working. Of course, if they didn't work you wouldn't hear anything out of them.

Edit: and this is how sanctions don't just hurt "ordinary people".

 
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This is not an insignificant number. You can virtually count the same number of US airforce losses in nearly 30 years of combat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...tates_military_aircraft_since_the_Vietnam_War

It is seemingly like the greatest trick Putin has every played is making the west thing he had a capable and competent military behind him.

Just a reminder that it is the Ukraine, not the US, not Germany, not England, not anybody who seemingly is a world power, but the motherfecking Ukraine that is making his army look average. It would take the US armed forces less than a week to overpower Russia.

Also from Putin’s comments it appears the sanctions are starting to hurt he and his friends massively.
 
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