Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Classical Mechanic said:
Sorry I just meant that Russia stepping into a totalitarian political situation, is that something that's a western narrative whilst the reality on the ground might be different?
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They blocked twitter, facebook and youtube. They also approved a law to hand out up to 15 years in prison for spreading "fake" news about the army. BBC journalists have left the country. What do you think?
 
VorZakone said:
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Shuttle diplomacy, I guess.

I would be surprised if one of Russia's requests won't be US removing nuclear weapons from Europe. Which might be ok, considering that US can hit Russia from the US, B2s and subs.

But I also think that most of US nukes in Europe are tactical, which would put the US at disadvantage if Russia uses a tactical nuke in Europe (tit for tat and all that).
 
Revan said:
Shuttle diplomacy, I guess.

I would be surprised if one of Russia's requests won't be US removing nuclear weapons from Europe. Which might be ok, considering that US can hit Russia from the US, B2s and subs.

But I also think that most of US nukes in Europe are tactical, which would put the US at disadvantage if Russia uses a tactical nuke in Europe (tit for tat and all that).
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Dont think US is in the mood to pander to any Russian demands. You also usualy make these demands from a position of strength, not whatever Putin is right now in.
 
Revan said:
Shuttle diplomacy, I guess.

I would be surprised if one of Russia's requests won't be US removing nuclear weapons from Europe. Which might be ok, considering that US can hit Russia from the US, B2s and subs.

But I also think that most of US nukes in Europe are tactical, which would put the US at disadvantage if Russia uses a tactical nuke in Europe (tit for tat and all that).
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I think UK and France have their own nukes not US nukes that you got in Germany and Italy? Can't see them giving up on those after being threatened with nuclear war for over a week, Russia won't give up on any of theirs.
 
Raoul said:
Mayor of Mariupol in CNN now basically confirming the Russians used the ceasefire to lure citizens into the open, then attacked them.
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Fecking hell. My biggest fear is that we need images of an actual genocide to force an intervention of any sort from NATO. We all fecked up by waiting for too long while massacres happened in Bosnia and in Kosovo back in the days.
 
Pintu said:
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It seems shift has gone completely to the south, with Mariupol being razed to the ground.
Holding out hope, someone will come in last moment, Knights of the Vale style, and annihilate occupants with swords and lances.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
I wonder what happens if the Americans start asking Israel "mate what the absolute feck?!"
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Pretty obvious what the Ukrainians were trying to invoke when highlighting Babyn Yar getting some collateral damage too.
 
hellhunter said:
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It's probably important to note that those are not Russian workers but rather Turkish workers that work in Russia. Hence their disappointment with having their salaries paid according to an old exchange course. I do hope that Russian workers would follow them though.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
Fecking hell. My biggest fear is that we need images of an actual genocide to force an intervention of any sort from NATO. We all fecked up by waiting for too long while massacres happened in Bosnia and in Kosovo back in the days.
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We won’t intervene militarily even if it turns into a genocide in Ukraine. That’s the protection a massive nuclear arsenal gives you unfortunately.
 
harms said:
It couldn’t be more true. And Russia was a pretty totalitarian state already, but this is different.
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Perhaps you should get out of there while you can? Long time ago, I read a lot of books about soviet russia, Solzhenitsyn, Bulgakov, Serge, etc. It is not inconceivable that another purge of "Enemies of the People" will happen again, especially since Putin was and will always be KGB. (Yes, back then nobody expected that things will get that bad, either. )
 
klsv said:
I think UK and France have their own nukes not US nukes that you got in Germany and Italy? Can't see them giving up on those after being threatened with nuclear war for over a week, Russia won't give up on any of theirs.
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UK and France are nuclear powers on their own, but the US has nukes in Turkey, Italy and Germany. Lavrov already mentioned that it is time for the US to remove their nukes from Europe.

To be fair, I do not understand what is their point nowadays considering that the US can hit Russia from sea, air and the US. On Germany, they are all in the same place and it should take Russia to hit them in less than 10 minutes, which is probably less than it would take the US to decide to retaliate or not.
 
Raoul said:
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I have a Russian friend here in Denmark who's been here quite long (went to highschool here etc.). Anyway, she has been critical of the war on especially Instagram. Now she's stopped being that as she knows a Russian guy in Germany who got a letter that he was a traitor after being critical of Russia on Facebook. Following that his parents in Russia had a visit from police or whoever ransacking the place.
 
Revan said:
UK and France are nuclear powers on their own, but the US has nukes in Turkey, Italy and Germany. Lavrov already mentioned that it is time for the US to remove their nukes from Europe.

To be fair, I do not understand what is their point nowadays considering that the US can hit Russia from sea, air and the US. On Germany, they are all in the same place and it should take Russia to hit them in less than 10 minutes, which is probably less than it would take the US to decide to retaliate or not.
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I think they worry about US stealth bombers taking off from as close as Germany and flying over to Moscow for a decapitating first-strike. But as you said, they can also hit them with SLBMs that might be as close as the Norwegian Sea or Barents Sea. Plus why is a B-2 flight starting from Germany much different than one that starts in Missouri, or Alaska, or Britain or anywhere else? They can refuel in-air and approach Russia from any direction, regardless of where they take off from.

So militarily I don't get it either. Maybe it is just that they think it would be yet another step that would distance the European countries from the US. Because as is the European countries are sort of tied at the hip to the US when it comes to the nuclear war calculus.
 
TheReligion said:
Disagree.

The fact Putin is complaining and threatening so much indicates a man under pressure. He knows his country is crumbling.
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He is under pressure as are the other Western leaders.

If you do not understand this is about spheres of influence you do not understand why NATO was formed, nor why we had the Cuban Missiles Crisis in 1962.
 
MTF said:
I think they worry about US stealth bombers taking off from as close as Germany and flying over to Moscow for a decapitating first-strike. But as you said, they can also hit them with SLBMs that might be as close as the Norwegian Sea or Barents Sea. Plus why is a B-2 flight starting from Germany much different than one that starts in Missouri, or Alaska, or Britain or anywhere else? They can refuel and approach Russia from any direction.

So militarily I don't get it either. Maybe it is just that they think it would be yet another step that would distance the European countries from the US. Because as is the European countries are sort of tied at the hip to the US when it comes to the nuclear war calculus.
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B2s can reach Europe without refueling. I think that they were launched from the US, bombed Yugoslavia and then returned to the US, without the need of refueling.

So strategically, I do not understand what the US gains from those nukes, but who knows.
 
Revan said:
UK and France are nuclear powers on their own, but the US has nukes in Turkey, Italy and Germany. Lavrov already mentioned that it is time for the US to remove their nukes from Europe.

To be fair, I do not understand what is their point nowadays considering that the US can hit Russia from sea, air and the US. On Germany, they are all in the same place and it should take Russia to hit them in less than 10 minutes, which is probably less than it would take the US to decide to retaliate or not.
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The Russians want to draw the US into the conversation. Then it will feed into their whole narrative of big bad USA v Russia.
 
Maagge said:
I have a Russian friend here in Denmark who's been here quite long (went to highschool here etc.). Anyway, she has been critical of the war on especially Instagram. Now she's stopped being that as she knows a Russian guy in Germany who got a letter that he was a traitor after being critical of Russia on Facebook. Following that his parents in Russia had a visit from police or whoever ransacking the place.
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Must be frightening to be confronted with that, especially given that they aren’t in Russia.
 
Red Dreams said:
He is under pressure as are the other Western leaders.

If you do not understand this is about spheres of influence you do not understand why NATO was formed, nor why we had the Cuban Missiles Crisis in 1962.
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Everyone is under varying degrees of pressure but the obvious signs are that Putin is cracking. Rambling on about nuclear weapons, turning his country into North Korea, threatening about a no fly zone that doesn’t exist and trying to apply pressure so that the sanctions (which he initially suggested won’t bother Russia) are taken away.

Desperate man.
 
Raoul said:
Must be frightening to be confronted with that, especially given that they aren’t in Russia.
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This is what the KGB and its satellites did. They called it profilacsis. A bunch of costumed people show in your house at 5AM and turn it upside down, then leave unless they really find something banned/incriminating but happens rarely. It is different to actually inventing a reason to arrest you, only purpose is to intimidate and humiliate you in front of your neighbors.
 
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