This is gonna end badly, I fear. Even if the army does not, the paramilitary mercenary troops that are under Russian army will not have trouble doing massacres.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
This is gonna end badly, I fear. Even if the army does not, the paramilitary mercenary troops that are under Russian army will not have trouble doing massacres.
I simply don't agree with that.
What I don't get about these "we thought we were doing exercises" stories is...were they told they were doing exercises in Ukraine? Or were they suddenly told behind the border that hey this isn't an exercise, you're going to Ukraine. But then why would they be surprised it isn't an exercise when they were literally on Ukrainian ground?
In other words, when they entered Ukraine, did some still think it was an exercise?
In other words, when they entered Ukraine, did some still think it was an exercise?
Strange? This has happened so many times in history.
I stopped reading at " what is approaching is very different, could be like nothing we've ever seen before. " - Short of nukes, and even they have to an extent, there is very little that hasn't been seen.
Who are these people? What is the Foreign Policy Research Institute and why does their "Distinguished Research Fellow" seemingly know nothing?
This guy should join the Caf.
Agreed, but the point was the UK acted first. The EU is always reactive
Anyway it’s important that now everyone is on the same page with this. Strength in unity
I wouldn't say the threat is zero. There's certainly potential (although very small) this could escalate.
Any uprising in Belarus would probably get crushed very quickly given that Putin already has troops there.
Boris does it to look good, deflect attention, not to truly help. He didn't do enough to begin with and isn't doing enough now. He's happy the whole corona thing is off the table at the moment.
As for who came first - really? The UK can unilaterally make a decision to do something token. To do something significant takes the EU time because of the need for consensus, a word Boris doesn't know the meaning of unless it's involving himself and anyone funding him or his party.
I think this post, all its four statements taken from a number of perspectives, just shows why we as the West are here today… and yes, the UK has been the happy happy pawn in this long running pawns game.
Assuming the stories are true: when you enter Ukraine, the ground doesn't turn blue-and-yellow nor do the birds start singing the Ukrainian national anthem. It's perfectly possible to take soldiers across the border without them realising it.
Just conjecture from me but I reckon it would be the UK first. He's especially pissed off with us at the moment and blamed our foreign secretary when he raised his nuclear alert level.
I think he sees Britain as America's main partner and would love to punish us.
Just hunch though, no science to anything I'm saying.
What kind of 21st cent army uses CB radios from alibaba for tactical comms
. Makes you think about their other capabilities in strategic comms.Not the world and evil would not be 100% appropriate but yeah given the chance the CCP would probably start seizing land from other countries around them most likely starting with Taiwan. They've already stealing land from nepal, in a territorial dispute with India, trying to claim islands from Japan and claiming almost the entirety of the South China sea which is International waters their own territory.
I was thinking about this today. What’s stopping the same groups from the Ukrainian side jumping in? I’m sure the Ukrainians haven’t been in their own nor will they be from now on. It’s not going to be as simple as reach the middle of Kiev and it’s over.
I reckon he'd launch several at the same time anyway. I just reckon the one to Warsaw would arrive first since it's closest to Russia. Let's not fool ourselves, it wouldn't be one nuke.
Poland is nearer and they are the mouthiest of them all.
If it escalated to a full nuclear war, the first strike is gonna have thousands of nuclear warheads in the air immediately. Every major city, airport and military base in the West is going to be hit (and the same for Russia).
In all honesty, if that happens, I hope to die immediately in a quick painless death.
Not saying he doesn't have a point, but it's a bit rich that much of the talk about the need for "doing more" is coming from the US. A country that would hardly be affected by a huge war on European ground. Sending NATO troops could eventually lead to a full blown WW, once again mostly fought out on in Europe. Not sure this is the way to go. We are running out on alternatives but I still hope there'll be a solution without NATO getting fully involved.
Yep. Coming from a country that suffered massacres, the vast majority of them was done by paramilitary groups.
Some of the people from those groups are members of the Wagner group for example.
Only just noticed this. Legitimately interesting analysis. Hilarious how behind they are. This is what happens when you focus on maintaining a huge army and a ridiculous amount of kit on a shoestring budget.
The US would be just as affected if an escalation were to happen, and would be relied on to carry a bulk of the military burden in responding. There are of course things that can be done that don't involve NATO troops fighting, such as allowing Ukrainian fighters to use eastern European NATO bases to launch attacks on Russian convoys and troops inside Ukraine, much as Putin is using Belarus as as a third party nation from which to fight.
Genuinely respect what you say. Unfortunately, most of the Serbian people I know in the West seem to not say the same, which is a bit of a shame.
Agree about your second point. Serbia was as much a victim of Milosevic and his clique as the rest of Yugoslavian countries. A bit of a shame that people like Vucic and Dacic are still in power, but that's a discussion for another thread.
I read here from some expert that a smaller nuke offshore between Denmark and the UK as a "warning" might be a first nuke if a nuke was to be used. Hell I don't know. Scary. I think we should help Ukraine more, if we want the world to change in a better way - then keeping them out of Russias hands have to be accomplished. I got a feeling things have been done and media have not been alerted to that, to make the impact of said help more effective, we will find out when the russians attack Kiev I guess.
And I hope you know why. Countries like Austria, Germany and Hungrary are very dependent on gas coming from Russia. It's easy for countries like the UK to yell for sanctions that don't affect them.
What kind of 21st cent army uses CB radios from alibaba for tactical comms
The same one that uses MREs that expired in 2015 apparently.
It was significant to send weapons and troops to Ukraine when everyone else was twiddling their thumbs. Germany was sending helmets when it started!
I don’t like Boris but I think the UK has been proactive in this
Don't worry yours will be coming 5 minutes later.
I'm not sure Krakow would even be a target and with me living quite far from the center and behind a hill I would probably stay alive for a while.
oh I do but they’ve had to get involved anyway so would it have made a difference if they’d done it sooner?
How? What sanctions have they applied to Russia but didn't apply to Iran for example?
Wouldn't surprise me if the rat is jumping for joy at the fact there is something to distract from his misconduct in a public office.
If you think their economy is supposedly similar to Italy’s, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d had to cheap out in a huge amount of areas to create such a large army.
What does NATO do, when sanctions start to effect (and they WILL IF imposed properly)? Say tens of millions of Russians are jobless. Putin declares that this is because of the west and demands to lift some of the sanctions or he uses nukes because it becomes an existential problem? He dared to threaten with nukes when you Ukraine is at stake. He will definitely threaten again when Russian citizens are concerned? What needs to be done, give in again?
Yes UK and US would be first
To carry the bulk of the military burden isn't close to what Europe would have to endure if it came to an escalation and if reports are true that Russia doesn't even have nuclear weapons able to reach US mainland I'm not sure how the affect a full blown war would have on Europe are in any way comparable to what the US would have to fear.
I agree with you second point though.
Ye, and I am within 3km of the center (Marienplatz), so probably dead immediately.
Please let’s not be cryptic
Where is that coming from? Pretty sure that is not true.
Well to the original post, it arguably goes back to the Iranian Revolution (the seeds for which were sown in 1953). As a result, Saddam opportunistically invaded Iran, with literally the entire world - USSR and US on the same side - backing Iraq. (Apart from Syria, who allowed Iranian planes to fly over its airspace to decimate Iraqi airfields on the border of Saudi Arabia - pay back for which came in the 2010s).
That turned into a quagmire after eight years of WW1 style tactics with modern weaponry. A million odd deaths and a broke Iraq later, Saddam now couldn't pay back the Arab states that had backed him. Saddam blamed Shiites and Kurds for siding with Iran, committed atrocities against them and that would have been all well and good but he decided to invade Kuwait to write off the debt he owed. Then it's the Gulf War with his very allies from 1980-88 firmly against him and Saddam is booted out of Kuwait. However, they make the decision of not toppling Saddam because of the worry of who would replace him. Saddam continues to gas the Kurds in revenge for helping the coalition, no one really minds in the West other than an odd air strike here and there (e.g. Clinton in 97, I think).
So between 1979 and 2003, you had the West (and Soviets) heavily arm Iraq from 1980-88. Then you had 35 countries, but mainly USA, intervene in 1990-1. Then shit loads of sanctions on Saddam. Then he's overthrown in 2003 and the country turns to chaos.
What's this got to do with Russia and Ukraine? Well, very little in the same way that previous right or wrong foreign policy of any of the "Great" powers in 1939 had to do with declaring war on Hitler. To your point around the quality of journalism - I partially agree, the statements that have been made regarding the victims are ridiculous and insensitive. However, Western cases for intervening in Iraq, Syria and Libya whilst horrifically criminal in the case of Iraq and deeply misguided in the latter two were done in countries where the leaders - without any impetus from the West - regularly committed war crimes and genocide on their own people. There's a reason why for all three the West at least went to the UN to get a resolution.
Something that is true - we have never seen in our lifetime a member of the UN Security Council unilaterally invade a democratic and free country. There is no hypocrisy in being absolutely shocked by what has happened and calling it what it is - an unprecedented modern military action.
Russian MOD announced earlier today they will be striking multiple targets in Kyiv.
Yeah you will be gone quickly.
Dont worry you might get a dud.