Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Actually, the fireball likely won't hit me. So I guess there is some chance of surviving.

I guess I am going buying some cans and some water, and if the worst happens, go in the basement for a couple of weeks.

For one of Russia's bigger nukes i think it's about 5-7 miles for a realistic chance of survival unless you're bunkered. Sure that's what i read.

Basically everything inside the London circular is more or less demolished for us Brits.

The worst bit would be that with every large city nuked the winds would carry the radiation to most places. The land would be ruined so yeah we'd probably all need to emigrate to sustain ourselves. Joy.
 
politicians really need to shut this idea down. No fly zone doesnt just mean shooting down planes, it also entails shooting down anti aircraft weapons, including those inside of russia. No fly zone is not a middle ground, Its going to war with Russia. Simple as that.

I follow Daria on twitter and basically all her tweets and re-tweets are about the NFZ.
 
So I have been trying to get people from border/any other place where they arrive for the last few days, and I was just in touch with someone who was looking for a drive for two Americans who have just arrived here and wanted a lift near the border so they can go to Lviv and join Ukrainian Forces. I didn't mind that as I would be going that direction anyway today or tomorrow but I just asked what their military experience is and it turned out they don't have any.

Do these people not realize they will be more burden than help? It's one thing to fight as a civilian in your own country, knowing the language, maybe knowing people around you. It's not Call of Duty, you won't be able to do anything there if you don't have any military training and you are just sentencing yourself to either death or lifelong PTSD.

Not taking them anywhere.

Good on you, and thank you. Knowing the location, terrain and the language is such a massive help. That's a barrier for even someone with military training and experience in combat to overcome and requires prep.

It's all nice and fun until someones brains inevitably get splattered up a wall. And then they'll wonder WTF they are doing there while people shout stuff they don't understand. Get down? Run? Who knows...
 
The narrative of the Russia military as bumbling could simply be that Russia doesn’t want to kill civilians where possible and instead wants to hold Ukraine as peacefully as possible by using its least important and capable military assets - a bit like playing the youth players in a League Cup match, if you will.

I’m starting to feel like a lot of the immediate media from this invasion has essentially just been propaganda, albeit brilliantly coordinated propaganda. Much of it in unverifiable and also aimed at getting an emotional response, but there isn’t really much substance when you take a step back.

I think it’s been designed to try and force an uprising or coup in Russia while there’s a chance to spin such narrative, but it hasn’t (and won’t) worked - that’s why Putin is sat with that insufferable smirk across his face - they’ve planned EXACTLY for these sanctions, they’ll already know their response around it - it’s just that we don’t. They’re multiple steps ahead…

This is a well thought out, long game tactical move from Russia rather than the desperate actions of a weakened dictator imo.

Putin has infiltrated U.S elections, Brexit, funded up much of the far-right brain-washing across Europe and is now invading neighbouring countries while staring down the World.

The reality is that the developed World has been weakened by his meddling and actions over the last 10 years and he will emerge from this more powerful, not less.

The depressing truth is that for all our supposed sophistication, a little Orwellian thug and glorified hitman is probably the single most powerful individual person on Earth.

We should take a look at ourselves in the mirror as a species. If it wasn’t so depressing it’d be comical.
Could be wrong (often am) but don’t agree with some of this especially bold paragraph
 
I used to be 2kms from Marienplatz. Now 25 kms away so will live 10 seconds or so longer than you. Woo hoo.
You are fine, as long as you are not near the airport or some military basis.

You will die from radiation though. If you survive it, be prepared on dying from the nuclear winter.
 
Just spoke to a Ukrainian colleague again. Really interesting to hear it directly from someone involved. She is in Kyiv, where it is now relatively quiet and safe after a few rough days.

An interesting thing she mentioned, which may be forgotten, is that so many Ukrainians have Russian relatives. She was, for example, no longer speaking to her aunt because she supported Putin and didn't believe any of the reports coming out of Ukraine about the war. It's fully messed up.

Always one of the saddest aspects of conflicts like this. Heartbreaking.
 
The narrative of the Russia military as bumbling could simply be that Russia doesn’t want to kill civilians where possible and instead wants to hold Ukraine as peacefully as possible by using its least important and capable military assets - a bit like playing the youth players in a League Cup match, if you will.

I’m starting to feel like a lot of the immediate media from this invasion has essentially just been propaganda, albeit brilliantly coordinated propaganda. Much of it in unverifiable and also aimed at getting an emotional response, but there isn’t really much substance when you take a step back.

I think it’s been designed to try and force an uprising or coup in Russia while there’s a chance to spin such narrative, but it hasn’t (and won’t) worked - that’s why Putin is sat with that insufferable smirk across his face - they’ve planned EXACTLY for these sanctions, they’ll already know their response around it - it’s just that we don’t. They’re multiple steps ahead…

This is a well thought out, long game tactical move from Russia rather than the desperate actions of a weakened dictator imo.

Putin has infiltrated U.S elections, Brexit, funded up much of the far-right brain-washing across Europe and is now invading neighbouring countries while staring down the World.

The reality is that the developed World has been weakened by his meddling and actions over the last 10 years and he will emerge from this more powerful, not less.

The depressing truth is that for all our supposed sophistication, a little Orwellian thug and glorified hitman is probably the single most powerful individual person on Earth.

We should take a look at ourselves in the mirror as a species. If it wasn’t so depressing it’d be comical.
Judging by the military equipment used and the age of the majority of the captured forces I'd have to agree with that.

Although I do think that the people in power in the West know this and their use of sanctions as you said is intended to bring an uprising and not to hurt the Kremlin. Would also make sense as to why sanctions haven't effected Russia's main exports (gas, wheat, etc..)
 
I agree. It would almost be pointless for them to even have nukes if they "couldn't reach" their #1 adversary, which would negate MAD and make them entirely vulnerable.

Please don't nail me down on that I've only read that on here and some dodgy articles and doing some more research it seems they might have nukes able to reach the US for quite some time actually. Hard to imagine they wouldn't be shot down before getting close to the US though. But anyway: Nuke or not a WW would mostly be fought out on on European terrain, which is why I think we should be careful with the call for "doing" more. I hope the sanctions will lead to the Russian population to properly turn against Putin which could end this without escalating even more.
 
So I have been trying to get people from border/any other place where they arrive for the last few days, and I was just in touch with someone who was looking for a drive for two Americans who have just arrived here and wanted a lift near the border so they can go to Lviv and join Ukrainian Forces. I didn't mind that as I would be going that direction anyway today or tomorrow but I just asked what their military experience is and it turned out they don't have any.

Do these people not realize they will be more burden than help? It's one thing to fight as a civilian in your own country, knowing the language, maybe knowing people around you. It's not Call of Duty, you won't be able to do anything there if you don't have any military training and you are just sentencing yourself to either death or lifelong PTSD.

Not taking them anywhere.

Good on you mate, mostly for helping refugees but also about the Americans. I genuinely do think these people going over to help without conflict experience, knowledge of the language or even an understanding of the region/ its history or geopolitics are really more of a hindrance.

Some of the rhetoric doesn't help sadly.
 
Please don't nail me down on that I've only read that on here and some dodgy articles and doing some more research it seems they might have nukes able to reach the US for quite some time actually. Hard to imagine they wouldn't be shot down before getting close to the US though. But anyway: Nuke or not a WW would mostly be fought out on on European terrain, which is why I think we should be careful with the call for "doing" more. I hope the sanctions will lead to the Russian population to properly turn against Putin which could end this without escalating even more.

US cannot shoot down a full-scale nuclear attack from Russia.
 
I follow Daria on twitter and basically all her tweets and re-tweets are about the NFZ.
someone needs to sit down with her and explain what that shit actually entails. Why a NFZ, why not just mobilize the entire europe and get it over with . why stop there. Its a half measure that gives you the same outcome as a full blown war. You dont just say well this is a NFZ and automatically planes stop flying . To enforce it requires force, it requires blowing up russian planes and anti aircraft weapons, especially the ones inside of russia.
 
To carry the bulk of the military burden isn't close to what Europe would have to endure if it came to an escalation and if reports are true that Russia doesn't even have nuclear weapons able to reach US mainland I'm not sure how the affect a full blown war would have on Europe are in any way comparable to what the US would have to fear.

I agree with you second point though.

Was this entirely based on how big the gap between USA and Russia looks on a flat map before you consider the roundness of the reality?
 
Isn't Putin just going to wave the nukes around every time he wants to achieve something? At some point that situation is going to come to a head because it is clear that by continually normalising the use of nukes in a way that no other nuclear country has done it has become a key tool for Russia whether they have any inclination to use them or not.

It is likely to be a key part of their rhetoric moving forward because what else can they use? This war will cost them militarily, financially, the nuke card is always that joker in the pack that when played that allows them to pretty much do anything they want.

What are we realistically hoping for, that the next guy is alright? My understanding from what I've read is that there are other figures in Russia around Putin that have some power and that his power has actually receded, but that he's still powerful and a figurehead. Is it realistic to think they don't support these operations or that if they see that this tool can be so successful that it won't be an option to wave around?

It's a problem that's not going away. I don't understand what the "red line" will be. Are we going to jump in and defend Bulgaria, or Romania just because they're signed up to a piece of paper that says NATO? Putin's tolerance for risk is clearly high, I think he or the next guy is legitimised in thinking they can call that bluff.
 
You are fine, as long as you are not near the airport or some military basis.

You will die from radiation though. If you survive it, be prepared on dying from the nuclear winter.
Nuclear winter is apparently not something that is 100% certain. They’ve been testing loads of nukes over the years.

I am starting to think I might be fine and the area where I live may become one of the best places to live after nuclear war.
 
You are fine, as long as you are not near the airport or some military basis.

You will die from radiation though. If you survive it, be prepared on dying from the nuclear winter.

I'm near the airport - prefer the quick option though, so all good.
 
Been thinking the last few days that there is a huge open door China can run through to save the day - they can then spin that as showing everyone who has the real power now. Could be a huge win for them.

It would, although I doubt Putin would bite, as it would reduce him to appearing like a small time schoolboy being admonished by his parents (the US and China).
 
I used to be 2kms from Marienplatz. Now 25 kms away so will live 10 seconds or so longer than you. Woo hoo.

My wife and I have been considering moving for around 3 months, currently in Schwabing. Maybe a house on the country side?
 


How long until one of these situations turn ugly? It wouldn't be difficult for a crowd like that to overpower a soldier and take his rifle, and similarly you can easily imagine a nervous and poorly trained soldier being trigger-happy in these situations.

Hope nothing happens, but I fear it won't take long before one of these confrontations between civilians and soldiers turn violent in some way.
 
I don't disagree with any of that, my post was saying it's a little tiresome when every war in the Middle East is claimed to somehow be the fault of the West. It's a tribal region that doesn't suit national boundaries and never has from long before the US started getting involved.

That's just an easy out to be honest. Of course not every war is the fault of the West there. But considering how often Europe plunged into war (and then subsequently dragged the rest of us into their wars as they became more powerful) over the tiniest of issues and then decided to deal with that issue partly in 45 by ethnically cleaning 15 million Germans and force them all back into Germany, its perhaps prudent to consider the impact in other areas of having had their borders drawn artificially.

I can only imagine what conflict in Europe may look like if the current borders weren't painstakingly created through centuries of war (and subsequent ethnic cleaning), as opposed to an Arab drawing random straight lines on a map across Europe. If they'd drawn a country which randomly contained bits of current Czech Republic, Germany, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Ukraine, you'd probably have had quite a bit of conflict within that country too.

Again, not super relevant to the current issue in Ukraine but the Arabs are not some animals who can't understand borders in the way Europeans can. Europeans understand borders (until recently when they created the EU) through centuries of war and population exchange to create very clear boundaries for their ethnic groups.
 
Please don't nail me down on that I've only read that on here and some dodgy articles and doing some more research it seems they might have nukes able to reach the US for quite some time actually. Hard to imagine they wouldn't be shot down before getting close to the US though. But anyway: Nuke or not a WW would mostly be fought out on on European terrain, which is why I think we should be careful with the call for "doing" more. I hope the sanctions will lead to the Russian population to properly turn against Putin which could end this without escalating even more.
It is not hard to imagine, it is virtually certain that Russia can hit the US with thousands of nukes. And vice versa.
 
Probably a really stupid question (I was definitely much more in my wheelhouse discussing the pandemic than geopolitics) but is Putin kind of a one man band? If there was a way to somehow take him out is there some other head the ball ready and waiting to take over? Or will the whole house of cards immediately collapse? You’d have to wonder if the quickest way to end this shit show is to assassinate the horrible toad behind it all.
 
This is hyperbolic nonsense, do you see China as some sort of evil empire that is waiting in the aisles to take over the world?
Not necessarily evil, but they are taking over the world already, economically.
 
The narrative of the Russia military as bumbling could simply be that Russia doesn’t want to kill civilians where possible and instead wants to hold Ukraine as peacefully as possible by using its least important and capable military assets - a bit like playing the youth players in a League Cup match, if you will.

I’m starting to feel like a lot of the immediate media from this invasion has essentially just been propaganda, albeit brilliantly coordinated propaganda. Much of it in unverifiable and also aimed at getting an emotional response, but there isn’t really much substance when you take a step back.

I think it’s been designed to try and force an uprising or coup in Russia while there’s a chance to spin such narrative, but it hasn’t (and won’t) worked - that’s why Putin is sat with that insufferable smirk across his face - they’ve planned EXACTLY for these sanctions, they’ll already know their response around it - it’s just that we don’t. They’re multiple steps ahead…

This is a well thought out, long game tactical move from Russia rather than the desperate actions of a weakened dictator imo.

Putin has infiltrated U.S elections, Brexit, funded up much of the far-right brain-washing across Europe and is now invading neighbouring countries while staring down the World.

The reality is that the developed World has been weakened by his meddling and actions over the last 10 years and he will emerge from this more powerful, not less.

The depressing truth is that for all our supposed sophistication, a little Orwellian thug and glorified hitman is probably the single most powerful individual person on Earth.

We should take a look at ourselves in the mirror as a species. If it wasn’t so depressing it’d be comical.


And how do you prepare for such sanctions?

A modern economy can't sustain itself without trade. Life in Russia as it is won't be possible any longer if the sanctions continue. And it wasn't very luxury to begin with. Russia already lacks the money to maintain the forces they have as it seems and that's although they spend much more on the military relatively speaking. If their economy shrinks, so does their military.

All those things don't work in isolation. Everything is connected - and to such a degree that it is questionable if any conflict that risks your trading networks is actually prfoitable. For all it's weaknesses, that's the beauty of the modern world. It connects people from different states not only on an emotional basis and ensures an exchange of cultures and values but also makes their wealth and well being reliant on peace.

Whatever Russia is doing right now in Ukraine, they're actually doing it against their better interest, most likely without even knowing
 
Probably a really stupid question (I was definitely much more in my wheelhouse discussing the pandemic than geopolitics) but is Putin kind of a one man band? If there was a way to somehow take him out is there some other head the ball ready and waiting to take over? Or will the whole house of cards immediately collapse? You’d have to wonder if the quickest way to end this shit show is to assassinate the horrible toad behind it all.

People are suggesting this, but then you have a potential power struggle in a country with thousands of nuclear warheads. It's in itself a scary prospect.
 
someone needs to sit down with her and explain what that shit actually entails. Why a NFZ, why not just mobilize the entire europe and get it over with . why stop there. Its a half measure that gives you the same outcome as a full blown war. You dont just say well this is a NFZ and automatically planes stop flying . To enforce it requires force, it requires blowing up russian planes and anti aircraft weapons, especially the ones inside of russia.

I am sure she understands. I am also sure you understand that the majority of Ukrainians would welcome a military intervention.
 
To carry the bulk of the military burden isn't close to what Europe would have to endure if it came to an escalation and if reports are true that Russia doesn't even have nuclear weapons able to reach US mainland I'm not sure how the affect a full blown war would have on Europe are in any way comparable to what the US would have to fear.

I agree with you second point though.
Russia have missile call Satan which has range of 7000 miles and can't be hit by any counter weapon. Usa has similiar nukes. In one word; Russia can hit every big city in USA and vice versa.

That is why (well, imo) there will never be ww3. All sides know that it is the end for all
 
Probably a really stupid question (I was definitely much more in my wheelhouse discussing the pandemic than geopolitics) but is Putin kind of a one man band? If there was a way to somehow take him out is there some other head the ball ready and waiting to take over? Or will the whole house of cards immediately collapse? You’d have to wonder if the quickest way to end this shit show is to assassinate the horrible toad behind it all.
Putin has certainly been centralising power with him - so there would be a vacuum... hard to know who would fill it though (Oligarch, Military, Putin loyalist)

I would say that for example a nato backed oligarch lead plot to take out putin but with the military and a putin loyalist retaining power would probably be the worst possible outcome... so its a risky dice to roll

let alone the complexities of organising such a thing.
 
Just spoke to a Ukrainian colleague again. Really interesting to hear it directly from someone involved. She is in Kyiv, where it is now relatively quiet and safe after a few rough days.

An interesting thing she mentioned, which may be forgotten, is that so many Ukrainians have Russian relatives. She was, for example, no longer speaking to her aunt because she supported Putin and didn't believe any of the reports coming out of Ukraine about the war. It's fully messed up.

Sounds like Americans who support Trump