Good post. Although I don't agree with a lot of it, (especially the part that asks Ukraine to give up it's right to self-determination to appease Putin), it is a well argued point of view.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
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Good post. Although I don't agree with a lot of it, (especially the part that asks Ukraine to give up it's right to self-determination to appease Putin), it is a well argued point of view.
Exactly this. It takes a wolf to catch a wolf.
And I certainly don't feel ashamed of supporting the US/UK intervention on behalf of Ukraine. It doesn't mean I consider them "good guys" or that I support their disgraceful role in Yemen. It means that in this battle they are doing the right thing. And that's enough to fully support them here.
Why they should take Crimea back? Especially with force. The population wanted to leave Ukraine and join Russia. Do you also support Serbia taking by force Kossovo?
Any actual quotes from the talks?
Russia blaming Truss for having to increase nuclear alert (which of course the BBC uses as a clickbait headline)
Misinformation and now a bit of ‘divide and conquer’ tactics (while ignoring all the shit they do). How do Russia think such outdated shit tactics work in modern day?
…. Mr Peskov said: "Statements were made by various representatives at various levels on possible altercations or even collisions and clashes between Nato and Russia.
"We believe that such statements are absolutely unacceptable. I would not call the authors of these statements by name, although it was the British foreign minister."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60558048
And there was me joking a couple of days ago that the U.K. started it by sending Liz Truss Russia blaming Truss for having to increase nuclear alert (which of course the BBC uses as a clickbait headline
Misinformation and now a bit of ‘divide and conquer’ tactics (while ignoring all the shit they do). How do Russia think such outdated shit tactics work in modern day?
…. Mr Peskov said: "Statements were made by various representatives at various levels on possible altercations or even collisions and clashes between Nato and Russia.
"We believe that such statements are absolutely unacceptable. I would not call the authors of these statements by name, although it was the British foreign minister."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60558048
How is it clickbait, when it seems to be exactly what he said?
I agree that it takes a wolf to catch a wolf. And Putin definitely needs to be countered, sanctioned, pushed out of power. All I'm disappointed by is how quickly we forget that the wolf fighting the cause we believe in now is also, well, a fecking wolf who has preyed and will prey on the same sheep at another time.
Again, I firmly believe that Putin needs to be stopped right now - a message that the outraged reactions will no doubt ignore. That the priority right now is to de-escalate, to save lives and avoid further humanitarian crisis in Ukraine. But the tragedy of Ukraine should NOT be a means to provide the 'good wolves' with more geo-political power. Neutrality is the best and only way forward for the 'sheep'.
Except unfortunately it's not that simple.
The guy that hits his wife at home isn't the one at personal risk for stopping the attacker. He's more on the side lines shouting words of support to the much weaker nice guy who is at risk for stopping the attacker and is likely going to get beaten up because of it.
“Criminals fighting criminals”
At least we know Ukrainians can still be the target of casual racism.
What happens with the criminals who are sat in prison when a nation is under attack like this? Must be terrifying to be confined to a building unable to flee in the face of the threat of destruction?
If Jeremy Corbyn were a poster on the Caf...
Hopefully after this war comes to it's peaceful resolution there's some self reflection on this and roles in other ongoing human tragedies.
That would be the best time to argue these things but I'm sure it would be a very quiet thread in truth.
The calls of censorship in this thread are a bit much though. One post every 5 pages steers off topic and it's the same posters who then escalate it beyond that page each time with the same opinions posted.
Good post.
Oh, and if anyone thought these actions were going to swing Russian-speaking and -looking people further towards Russia, you probably need to reassess.
I only wish my wife’s grandad hadn’t already lost his marbles, so we could see how he – a completely dyed-in-the-wool Soviet communist, now Russian-speaking Ukrainian – would be having his worldview shifted.
Edit: typo
I only wish my wife’s grandad hadn’t already lost his marbles, so we could see how he – a completely dyed-in-the-wool Soviet communist, now Russian-speaking Ukrainian – would be having his worldview shifted.
Edit: typo
Correct
Dear, oh, dear.
Maybe some of these will help stop the anti west/pro russia comments that keep popping up in here.
We need Liz Truss to adopt the mindset of a wolf.
By this logic, it could be easy for Russians to justify their actions?
US/UK powers slowly spreading their sphere of influence, bringing Ukraine into NATO, parking missiles right outside of Russia. Russia does not have the influence of countries in Europe or US. They have the military might though, so they will exercise that.
It doesn't make it right. Just trying to give a better picture
I will quote every one of you wannabe communists and ask you to explain yourselves or go away.
Some of you wannabe diplomats would have Ukraine partitioned to satisfy Putler. If that's diplomacy for you, go and live in Mother Russia.
Wana be communists? Hahaha! who the fk even are you?
Grow up.
Does it bother you to have a mirror put in front? Why make the injustice of calling out the same shit in other countries a joke? feck Russia but lets not kid ourselves how bigoted some of the news outlets have been about this. Calling this a bigger crises because it's "civilized europe".
You have some on here thinking this is a fascinating first time ever war on social media.
Which doesn't change a thing about what I was trying to say: doing good things is good, doing bad things is bad and just because someone who does bad things now does something good, doesn't make that thing bad by association with former actions.
Grow up, or if you’re going to be so emotional, log off and cool off before posting.
Let’s be clear on this: the only way Putin and similar despots have to succeed is to make the world go back to the 1920s technologically, first and foremost… which is the only way they have to keep million / billion people subjugated. Russian “light” (without heavy MADs) campaign in Ukraine is a fiasco: equipment and logistics are outdated, morale is low, their own population is largely brotherly with Ukraine does not see what this war is about at all. Putin cannot win in any substantial manner from this war, he can only dig his (and our) hole deeper until doom. That’s why extreme caution is needed from NATO in dealing to achieve defusion, without being too carried away once this gets uglier, in case the talks are not successful today. The fact that they are still going after four hours is a signal Ukraine is really trying… because, and make no mistake, folks: this war has a wolf and a sheep.
That's a bad thing?. Rather that than Tony Blair, George Bush.
You've solved the problem of crowded prisons. Let's let all the murderers out as long as they commit a good deed today.
Here we go. UK & US are the real bad guys etc. I suppose everyone should just sit back and allow Russia to invade half of Europe, because that's probably what happens if nobody stands up to them. Lord knows we don't want hypocrisy in world politics now do we.
I respect you as a poster, so I'll clarify.
I'm fairly certain the context of the post makes it clear that the 'criminals' there are NATO+allies and Russia. That the former is fighting a proxy war against the latter via Ukraine, whose citizens are the victims of this situation. Ukranian housewives and senior citizens are unfortunately bearing the arms and being shelled out of their homes, but they didn't start the war - Russians did. In response to the former's diplomatic and geo-political aggression over decades. This was definitely the wrong means of retaliation when diplomatic measures could have done the trick, and that's what makes Putin a war criminal who needs to be countered. But the retaliation was inevitable due to actions the former took, and this military aggression was long coming and long ignored by NATO and co - when elections are being rigged in your favour and Russians are funding your campaigns and buying you influence, no one cares.
I am happy to be pointed towards reliable resources that point otherwise since I'm not learned on this topic. But I have not once blamed the citizens of a country fighting for survival, would not even dream of it.
I took that to mean the West vs Russia.
Exactly. Debate policy failures of NATO all you like but don’t start pretending this invasion is on anyone but Putin.
True but most news outlets are complete radio active toxic puddle of piss anyway. What they say or do is worth less than the crap of a seagul. What's important is the values of yourself and your close ones. 90% of social media and news are cancerous.
Two points.
1. Let's create a new thread for all the arguments about how the West and NATO are hypocrites.
2. Let's never use the word 'Putler' again. It sounds like the title of a canned Rob Schneider film.
1. Let's create a new thread for all the arguments about how the West and NATO are hypocrites.
2. Let's never use the word 'Putler' again. It sounds like the title of a canned Rob Schneider film.