Ukranian forces apparently beating up Indian students and refusing them to escape to Poland. Many spent days without food to get to the border.
Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
- Start date
Ukranian forces apparently beating up Indian students and refusing them to escape to Poland. Many spent days without food to get to the border.
Good point about Petrov. Let’s hope someone will destroy pertinent equipment then!
To be clear, I am not at all saying Russia is in their rights to invade Ukraine at this time. There should have been more efforts at a diplomatic solution given Ukraine's admission into NATO was not imminent. I just feel Russia point if view is completely ignored even though it's legitimate. If the tables were turned we would try our best to keep ukraine out of allied control. Hence my devils advocacy.
I'll comment on some of your points.
I don't think it really matters if currently there nuclear warheads in Eastern Europe. They exist in founding member states. There are other types of missles and NATO could deploy nuclear ones as well without notice should they decide to.
Agreed about the eligibility, and with those sort of territorial disputes the are unlikely to gain membership anytime soon.
What do you mean 1997. The lastest member was admitted in 2020.
I get the feeling that there is an appetite to call Putin's bluff.
Whether that is a good thing will depend on just how unhinged he is.
Not stated. But I’d imagine stuff was sorted long before it was announced.
As Russian troops draw closer to the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv’s mayor has confirmed that nine civilians in the city have been killed so far, including one child, in an interview with the Associated Press.
Vitali Klitschko ordered a curfew began about sundown on Saturday and is to extend until at least 8am Monday. His order pointedly stated that any unauthorised person outside during this time could be considered a saboteur.
“We are hunting these people, and it will be much easier if nobody is on the street,” Klitschko explained, saying that six Russian saboteurs were killed Saturday night.
Russian troops’ advance on the city has been slower than many military experts had expected but the overall Russian military advantage is well-known to all.
“I just talked to the president (Zelenskiy). Everybody is not feeling so well,” Klitschko said, adding that city government employees were in shock but not depressed. “We show our character, our knowledge, our values.”
Vitali Klitschko ordered a curfew began about sundown on Saturday and is to extend until at least 8am Monday. His order pointedly stated that any unauthorised person outside during this time could be considered a saboteur.
“We are hunting these people, and it will be much easier if nobody is on the street,” Klitschko explained, saying that six Russian saboteurs were killed Saturday night.
Russian troops’ advance on the city has been slower than many military experts had expected but the overall Russian military advantage is well-known to all.
“I just talked to the president (Zelenskiy). Everybody is not feeling so well,” Klitschko said, adding that city government employees were in shock but not depressed. “We show our character, our knowledge, our values.”
Sorry Smithy. We will do better.
1997 is the start of the Eastern expansion of NATO
Starting with that russian troll mod would be nice.
It is a potential propaganda tool for him, indeed. Hopefully the Russian population sees through it.
Wow, experienced fellas?
Largely because uncontroversial comments are treated as heresy and you see a group happy to move with it. This is how war tends to go though, so I should know better. I'm done with this thread anyway. I want it to stay on topic and I cannot engage here within the narrow limit defined by so many who have been trained to think "whataboutism" is a legitimate means of argument in a geopolitical debate (absurd). As I'll derail, I'm just going to remove myself.
If Ukrainian pilots will be flying them, it has to be models they are used to - afaik only Poland and Romania still use those (MiG-29). If Poland had some battle ready next to the border it is absolutely possible.
The UK can barely arm it’s own army. Whatever arrives in Ukraine from here, if anything, either won’t be working, won’t be in the hands of those trained to use it or some other complete clusterfcuk, falling perfectly in line with every other move a British government has ever done…I really wouldn’t worry about us having any involvement in the death of a single Russian! Unless we send them the 700m worth of useless PPE we have thanks again to a British government.
Were you also ok when we sold Jaap Stam?
Because the reactions to the Russian invasion has been completely hypocritic, with many posters here and others on the internet acting as if such a monstrosity has never happened before. When the West has regularly dismantled countries and levelled them in some cases, creating bigger monsters in the process.
You have been from day 1 of this thread posting whataboutism and justifying Russian's invasion.
You really need to ask?
Sadly not. Young men in their early 20s with familial links to the region. Honestly didn't know what to say when they told me.
Your pretence that people don’t understand why Russia would be concerned with Ukraine joining NATO is false because plenty have said that they do. However, it’s justifiably been ignored because whatever Putin’s concerns, Ukraine as a sovereign state can make its own choices and whilst understandable Putin would do whatever he could to change their mind, the acceptable line of “whatever” ends long before invading them. All in all the path chosen by Putin are sufficiently disproportionate to his concerns that his concerns, legitimate or not, are now irrelevant. Should the EU invade the UK because the UK decided to leave the EU to get us to stay?
A lot of Russian equipment and presumably human lives have already been taken by the anti-tank weapons provided by the UK..
Quick question for any economists ?
If hypothetically Russia, China and Saudi Arabia decide to stop using the dollar, what would that do to the global economy ?
If hypothetically Russia, China and Saudi Arabia decide to stop using the dollar, what would that do to the global economy ?
Great, create a "are the sanctions against Russia hypocritical" then. This topic has 3300 messages in 4 days, there's so many things going on that i'm pretty sure it's not the place to mix it with other debates even if I agree the west also has its hands dirty.
The Buran program happened while the Soviet Union existed and Ukraine and Russia were part of that. Several important industries in regard to spaceflight and aviation were (and are) located in today Ukraine, including Antonov. But also the booster rockets for example were built in Ukraine (and the Zenit space launch vehicle is considered to be an Ukrainian rocket, which evolved from the Buran program)
True.
It's fair to say that there was pretty much blanket condemnation over the Iraq invasion outside of the US and Blair government, and trying to draw a comparison between that reaction and the reaction to the Ukraine invasion requires a little more nuance than message board flippancy. It's also fair to stop to take a more objective look at the establishment narratives that have been forming over the last week, and the political self interest of many pundits and news networks. Whilst still wishing the best for the Ukrainian people and supporting the defence of their home.
Also the "whatabout that whataboutary" is definitely a thing now, whereby any legitimate criticism that isn't placing Putin at the epicentre of everything forever bad, is being angrily shutdown without any consideration for the central point.
We have Trump supporters, notorious racists and war criminals being thumbed up as respected analysts because they're on the Putin is a **** train.
War reduced to a match day thread.
Nobody promised Gorbachev that NATO won't expand to the east. Gorbachev himself has said this. It's a straw Putin has been using for his own excuse since 2007 (that is years after the Baltics joined NATO).
Even if Gorbachev was promised this, then you'd think that things changed after Soviet tanks were deployed to the Baltics to crush their (re)independence movements in 1991, resulting in several deaths.
The Baltics didn't join the USSR by free will and the they didn't leave because Russia wanted to let them leave. The Baltics DID join the EU and NATO because of the nature Russia occupied them and tried to stop them from leaving. Because we've been bollocked and threatened by Russia because they also used the rhetoric of "protecting" local Russians who stayed here after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
For post-Soviet eastern Europe, fear of Russian agression is nothing new.
Even if Gorbachev was promised this, then you'd think that things changed after Soviet tanks were deployed to the Baltics to crush their (re)independence movements in 1991, resulting in several deaths.
The Baltics didn't join the USSR by free will and the they didn't leave because Russia wanted to let them leave. The Baltics DID join the EU and NATO because of the nature Russia occupied them and tried to stop them from leaving. Because we've been bollocked and threatened by Russia because they also used the rhetoric of "protecting" local Russians who stayed here after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
For post-Soviet eastern Europe, fear of Russian agression is nothing new.
On behalf of all Norwegians in here, I apologize for Lindisfarne, and the Viking raids in the Kiev region back in the day. Am I allowed to discuss whats going on now?
Satire, surely...
Russia does not matter too much, their economy is essentially a gas station. Saudi Arabia would be huge cause they are the largest oil station in the world.
China would destroy the global economical system.
Starting with that russian troll mod would be nice.
I'll have a word with him.
The thing is, if I’m honest, from the few discussions you’ve been involved with, you clearly are not going to change your views. Even if some of them are clearly refuted. And not saying the “opposite” side aren’t in the same boat, but it’s a straw man argument to turn around to those people and basically say they are biased or misinformed. It’s hypocritical even. But the main point is it has nothing to do with this thread. Which is about Ukraine and Russian irrespective of whatever else is happening in the world.
Good post
If all us westerners admit we are horrible hypocrites who should have our handbags shit in and our faces pounded with a sack of dicks can you guys please move your off topic shit to a feck the West thread? As mentioned above by someone else I and others are using this thread to keep on top of things. This is an amazing multinational community of posters that is providing insight and info that’s is impossible to get anywhere else. Let’s keep that going. Also, we know we suck.
I kind of agree about that. But as you said if there are 3300 posts, some are bound to be off topic.
I don’t care about them, I care about this thread staying on track. If people want to sling insults or debate about other countries being invaded in the past take it to a new thread.
Good post