Yemen, Palestine, Somalia, the West African coups (just a couple of years ago). There are more examples. But these are just some which are clearly not "necessary" and at least one of them is an outright genocide.I'm going to have to bold it for you:
Fair enough. Predictable though. Nothing personal but it was obvious it would happen and I couldn't fathom your support for him at the time.As for this, it's pretty obvious:
He sold out.
Yemen, Palestine, Somalia, the West African coups (just a couple of years ago). There are more examples. But these are just some which are clearly not "necessary" and at least one of them is an outright genocide.
Fair enough. Predictable though. Nothing personal but it was obvious it would happen and I couldn't fathom your support for him at the time.
Yemen, Palestine, Somalia, the West African coups (just a couple of years ago). There are more examples. But these are just some which are clearly not "necessary" and at least one of them is an outright genocide.
Also the whole Yugoslavian thing? Still highly controversial. Basically, trying to name one which is just (I cannot find one) is easier than pretending they all are bar a few which aren't.
See, this is where biases really bloody kick in: that list is so so so misrepresentative
I can break this down incident by incident
This is what I mean by the way, given the huge intrinsic biases that label every US military intervention, despite some being fully UN backed as somehow the US being the aggressor.
Afghanistan 1998, 2001- Somewhat justified, given 9/11
Bosnia 1994, 1995 - Humanitarian mission sanctioned by UN after UN missions were attacked
Cambodia 1969-70 - Horrible - unjustified
China 1945-46 - Seriously? A US Marine Corps was sent to China to pacify and force surrender on the Japanese. They were greeted in the streets as heroes and given a liberators reception.
Congo 1964 - Seriously? The democratically elected government of the Congo was couped by Soviet supported rebels. The government asked for Western support and received it.
Cuba 1959-1961 - Unjustified - although feck Castro.
El Salvador 1980s - Murky - authoritarian government of El Salvador requested support after Soviet backed coup.
Korea 1950-53 - The fact that this is in here shows how ridiculous this is. North Korea invades South korea - US is the bad guy?
Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69 - Some of them are really unjustified, some of them were justified.
Indonesia 1958 - Murky - Attempted coup attempt on a dictator who was committing atrocities.
Laos 1964-73 - Unjustified.
Grenada 1983 - Murky - All of Grenada's neighbours solicited US help after breakdown in government and stability.
Iraq 1991-2000s, 2015- 1991-2000's was very justified. 2003-2009 was not. 2014+ was very justified and requested by the Iraqi government.
Iran 1987 - Seriously? The Iranians blew up a US warship for no reason and triggered a response.
Kuwait 1991 - Someone tried to say the 91 liberation of Kuwait was US aggression? They were seen as the saviours.
Lebanon 1983, 1984 - Very Murky, borderline unjustifiable.
Libya 1986, 2011- 1986 was justifiable. 2011+ was, on paper, justifiable, but the resulting incompetency made any action not worth it and increased suffering.
Nicaragua 1980s - Mostly not justifiable.
Pakistan 2003, 2006- These were requested at the behest of the Pakistani government against Pashtun Taliban.
Palestine 2010 - I do not know what this is referring to.
Panama 1989 - you might want to read up what actually happened here. But the president of Panama was basically helping smuggle boatloads of cocaine to USA and got indited for it.
Peru 1965 - I have no idea what this refers to.
Somalia 1993, 2007-08, 2010- They're referring to USN anti-piracy patrols as bombing/invasion now? 1993 was BHD, which is murky at best, probably unjustifiable.
Sudan 1998 - They literally bombed an Al-Qaeda cell which had killed 226 Americans in Embassy attacks.
Syria 2014- They bombed Chemical weapons factories...
Vietnam 1961-73 - Unjustified.
Yemen 2002, 2009- Unjustified- but feck the Houthi's.
Yugoslavia 1999 - Stopping a genocide is now a bad thing?
I'm ignoring the other parts, because I believe they are all atrocities and you don't.Palestine is not a US military operation - whilst Israel has US support, there isn't a single actual military operation there since Operation Nickle Grass in 1973.
That's a list of an empire's various crimes to me and I don't think one of them is justified. For a different thread, I think, but we won't agree there either.Anyway, if you actually want my breakdown of what was justified and what wasn't, since WWII I did a pretty comprehensive list a while ago:
What was questionable about yugoslavia?Yemen, Palestine, Somalia, the West African coups (just a couple of years ago). There are more examples. But these are just some which are clearly not "necessary" and at least one of them is an outright genocide.
Also the whole Yugoslavian thing? Still highly controversial. Basically, trying to name one which is just (I cannot find one) is easier than pretending they all are bar a few which aren't.
Ask the residents. I'm not qualified to comment but many consider what the US did there, re bombing campaign, to be a war crime. Would have to ask Serbs here.What was questionable about yugoslavia?
That's a list of an empire's various crimes to me and I don't think one of them is justified. For a different thread, I think, but we won't agree there either.
I can just about concede Korea due to good faith extension of "well, it was right at the start(ish) of the Cold War) and after that I have nothing to offer as "just". Their diplomacy in Northern Ireland and their attempt, though riddled with bias, to bring Palestine and Israel to Camp David agreement. That's it for me. Two examples and neither was an intervention or support for genocide.
I mean their support of Saudi Arabia's genocide in Yemen. That's obviously not justified. And they did support it for their own reasons.
Ask the residents. I'm not qualified to comment but many consider what the US did there, re bombing campaign, to be a war crime. Would have to ask Serbs here.
Legal doesn't mean "ethical" or "just". And that war is like an outlier in terms of the coalition involved.Also, frankly, it seems to me that your default position any military action by the US is unjustifiable and evil. It's a pretty absurd position since you have cases like the Gulf war where Every single Arab Nation took part in the coalition and it was passed through the UN through multiple resolutions.
Why not? Do you become amoral because you become a soldier? Morality is all that matters and propagandists, an enormous component in all war machines, understand this very well. Hearts and minds.You're conflating execution of an operation with the strategic and moral justification of an operation. They are not the same things whatsoever.
It's more like if any nation uses military force beyond the most basic elements of defense, then "evil" because war is literally evil.Somehow, your default position is "if US uses military force its evil." Which is not a rational position to take.
Flockingly, flock me. Read up on Milosevic. Putin is a baby compared to him. Genocidal maniac. Of all the stuff americans did, Kosovi is the least questionable. Listening to serbians about the nineties would be like listening to Russian propaganda now. But not surprised it's coming from you.Ask the residents. I'm not qualified to comment but many consider what the US did there, re bombing campaign, to be a war crime. Would have to ask Serbs here.
im aware of him. thanks.Milosevic
Apparently not enough, because then you wouldn't call kosovo intervention questionable. Can't believe that stopping ethnical cleansing is now questionable.im aware of him. thanks.
Why not? Do you become amoral because you become a soldier? Morality is all that matters and propagandists, an enormous component in all war machines, understand this very well. Hearts and minds.
That's like the inverse of the truth. Every military operation (or most) has examples of war crimes which, apt to this thread, include mass rape, murder, and torture. How is my conclusion that war, which is the cause, is responsible for these horrors (always) in any respect incorrect.Because a military operation can be more than justified but still have lots of misconduct. See just about every military operation.
Disagree. The US never gave a shit about Syria and that can be seen by their historic actions in that nation. They used terrorists as they liked them (on the fecking record) and then bombed them and Oceania changed enemies when convenient. Typical of all empires. My last exchange in this argument. Best for a different thread.That doesn't invalidate the justification of the military operation in itself.
That's like the inverse of the truth. Every military operation (or most) has examples of war crimes which, apt to this thread, include mass rape, murder, and torture. How is my conclusion that war, which is the cause, is responsible for these horrors (always) in any respect incorrect.
As GB said though, our back and forths really aren't conducive to any kind of reasoned debate and hijacking threads is best avoided. (I didn't start this one!).
