Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

To be fair to people, this is an emotional situation to process and i don't think it's that surprising historic injustices and frustrations come to the fore. It's inevitably related.

I've personally no desire to argue those matters as feel like it's been done. I do however find the dismissive nature of just reducing everything else to whataboutery a bit callous from some.
 
Shakesey said:
His perspective? I'm still struggling to understand why he says Ukraine is run by Nazis and why he's threatening to end life on earth. Do you have a vid on that?
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While it's not run by Nazis, there is an element of them in the military apparatus, which is frankly terrifying:



 
Any updates on what caused that massive explosion? Was it actually a thermobaric bomb or a bomb hitting an object like fuel depot or something?
 
RedorDead21 said:
The UK can barely arm it’s own army. Whatever arrives in Ukraine from here, if anything, either won’t be working, won’t be in the hands of those trained to use it or some other complete clusterfcuk, falling perfectly in line with every other move a British government has ever done…I really wouldn’t worry about us having any involvement in the death of a single Russian! Unless we send them the 700m worth of useless PPE we have thanks again to a British government.
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The sent £40m in aid though, which will be very helpful to the Ukrainian people.
 
Revan said:
Russia does not matter too much, their economy is essentially a gas station. Saudi Arabia would be huge cause they are the largest oil station in the world.

China would destroy the global economical system.
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I thought so.

China hold 3.2 trillion in USD in reserves iirc. I think China are probably watching on and factoring in a similar scenario against them in regards to Taiwan.

Do you think the US would be insane enough to try and freeze out China the way they did to Russia ?

I don't think the global economy would be able to stand such an event.
 
Skåre Willoch said:
On behalf of all Norwegians in here, I apologize for Lindisfarne, and the Viking raids in the Kiev region back in the day. Am I allowed to discuss whats going on now?
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Shouldn't you rather apologize for actually founding what today is Russia? :lol:
 
Smithy89 said:
Wonder if it's a potential reaction to the supposed massive Russian convoy sky news reported on a few hours ago, heading for Kyiv.
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That convoy news was originally posted this morning across various twitter feeds, all Sky have done is verified it a day later.

It has nothing to do with that.
 
the_cliff said:
Quick question for any economists ?

If hypothetically Russia, China and Saudi Arabia decide to stop using the dollar, what would that do to the global economy ?
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Russia have no choice, they cannot use the dollar
 
Smores said:
To be fair to people, this is an emotional situation to process and i don't think it's that surprising historic injustices and frustrations come to the fore. It's inevitably related.

I've personally no desire to argue those matters as feel like it's been done. I do however find the dismissive nature of just reducing everything else to whataboutery a bit callous from some.
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The problem is that a lot of the “everything else” is ridiculous posts like “where was the condemnation of Iraq?”

There is a very interesting nuanced debate to be had about actions of the west in the past and what Russia is doing now, but for it to be interesting it needs to be more intellectual than it has been in this thread which ends up coming across as people trying to score points.

And as a separate point that debate should obviously not be in this thread.
 
rpitroda said:
Your pretence that people don’t understand why Russia would be concerned with Ukraine joining NATO is false because plenty have said that they do. However, it’s justifiably been ignored because whatever Putin’s concerns, Ukraine as a sovereign state can make its own choices and whilst understandable Putin would do whatever he could to change their mind, the acceptable line of “whatever” ends long before invading them. All in all the path chosen by Putin are sufficiently disproportionate to his concerns that his concerns, legitimate or not, are now irrelevant. Should the EU invade the UK because the UK decided to leave the EU to get us to stay?
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What do you mean pretense. Maybe you understand but given the nature of some of the responses it's clear most people don't have a clue or why Russia might take offense.

Actually i take that back. Given your last sentence neither do you.
 
Redlyn said:
What do you mean pretense. Maybe you understand but given the nature of some of the responses it's clear most people don't have a clue or why Russia might take offense.

Actually i take that back. Given your last sentence neither do you.
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Ok, enlighten me then.
 
stefan92 said:
The Buran program happened while the Soviet Union existed and Ukraine and Russia were part of that. Several important industries in regard to spaceflight and aviation were (and are) located in today Ukraine, including Antonov. But also the booster rockets for example were built in Ukraine (and the Zenit space launch vehicle is considered to be an Ukrainian rocket, which evolved from the Buran program)
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I realized that, but was under the impression Moscow/Russia was the one planning and financing the program and that they built things in Ukraine because it was part of the Union. So who decided who kept what after the Soviet dissolution. Anyway, I'm derailing the thread now.
 
I have to say, I am slightly uneasy about the very public support for Ukraine by the EU and the UK with regard to sending weapons and effectively waging a proxy war. I agree with the actions but I wonder about the wisdom of advertising it so openly.

It just gives the madman an excuse to curse at the clouds and the perceived slights against him and Russia in the past. Again, I don't think less public expression of support would do much to change his mind but it somewhat seems to me that politicians in the EU and the UK are using this as a bit of a PR opportunity based on the wide-ranging public support.
 
Mickeza said:
Not stated. But I’d imagine stuff was sorted long before it was announced.
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I would have imagined this was discussed and put in motion Saturday and the plans readied for use and likely moved closer to border ready to be used soon as necessary.
 
rotherham_red said:
While it's not run by Nazis, there is an element of them in the military apparatus, which is frankly terrifying:



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The Asov battalion is a very nasty bunch for sure. It's also overused by russian propaganda to justify their invasion. Each and every time they have to fight dirty, it's because they're facing the Azov battalion. They're real, they have neo-nazi tendancies but their influence is vastly inflated by Russia.
 
Rightnr said:
I have to say, I am slightly uneasy about the very public support for Ukraine by the EU and the UK with regard to sending weapons and effectively waging a proxy war. I agree with the actions but I wonder about the wisdom of advertising it so openly.

It just gives the madman an excuse to curse at the clouds and the perceived slights against him and Russia in the past. Again, I don't think less public expression of support would do much to change his mind but it somewhat seems to me that politicians in the EU and the UK are using this as a bit of a PR opportunity based on the wide-ranging public support.
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It’s a weird one for sure. And no doubt one of the reasons for the decisions European governments are taking is with a view to appeasing the public outcry across European cities.
 
WI_Red said:
If all us westerners admit we are horrible hypocrites who should have our handbags shit in and our faces pounded with a sack of dicks can you guys please move your off topic shit to a feck the West thread? As mentioned above by someone else I and others are using this thread to keep on top of things. This is an amazing multinational community of posters that is providing insight and info that’s is impossible to get anywhere else. Let’s keep that going. Also, we know we suck.
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This is still a discussion forum pal. I'm seeing more of these posts than actual posts going off topic.
 
Rightnr said:
I have to say, I am slightly uneasy about the very public support for Ukraine by the EU and the UK with regard to sending weapons and effectively waging a proxy war. I agree with the actions but I wonder about the wisdom of advertising it so openly.

It just gives the madman an excuse to curse at the clouds and the perceived slights against him and Russia in the past. Again, I don't think less public expression of support would do much to change his mind but it somewhat seems to me that politicians in the EU and the UK are using this as a bit of a PR opportunity based on the wide-ranging public support.
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I think its better to advertise it publicly as an act of transparency than do it clandestinely. The public will be more on board that way and will to a degree feel like they have the power to affect what happens in Ukraine.
 
Skåre Willoch said:
On behalf of all Norwegians in here, I apologize for Lindisfarne, and the Viking raids in the Kiev region back in the day. Am I allowed to discuss whats going on now?
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:lol:
The majority of the posts here are discussing on the topic. But with posters from multiple nations here, some posts are bound to go off topic or go against the flow. I don't think it hinders the thread that much.But if the mods feel that the thread is being derailed, I guess it is better to get people to stop talking about it.
 
Rightnr said:
I have to say, I am slightly uneasy about the very public support for Ukraine by the EU and the UK with regard to sending weapons and effectively waging a proxy war. I agree with the actions but I wonder about the wisdom of advertising it so openly.

It just gives the madman an excuse to curse at the clouds and the perceived slights against him and Russia in the past. Again, I don't think less public expression of support would do much to change his mind but it somewhat seems to me that politicians in the EU and the UK are using this as a bit of a PR opportunity based on the wide-ranging public support.
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Remaining passive gives Putin an upper hand. Some level of force has to be publicly announced.
 
I'm pretty sure NATO is confident that we can nullify his strategic nuclear threat if he uses it. No way we keep doing what we're doing without assurances.

I don't know how, and I hope we don't find out.
 
RedDevil@84 said:




Ukranian forces apparently beating up Indian students and refusing them to escape to Poland. Many spent days without food to get to the border.
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Not sure these clips show what they claim. Nobody is being beaten up or attacked there.

All this shit has been debunked several times over now. If you only have passport of a third country and stayed in Ukraine until now, unsurprisingly you are going to have a very, very long wait to get through the border crossings if you only now choose to flee. Ukrainian and EU citizens are going to be prioritised for processing and that may well mean citizens of third countries waiting several days as demand for processing outstrips capacity. And no shit are the border guards going to be increasingly short on patience if people are where they shouldn’t be, refuse to listen to instructions or start trying to rush the border.
 
rpitroda said:
It’s a weird one for sure. And no doubt one of the reasons for the decisions European governments are taking is with a view to appeasing the public outcry across European cities.
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Maybe there is something to it in the sense of flexing muscles and showing Russia we can outspend them and outlast them. We did it with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan too.
 
Redlyn said:
To be clear, I am not at all saying Russia is in their rights to invade Ukraine at this time. There should have been more efforts at a diplomatic solution given Ukraine's admission into NATO was not imminent. I just feel Russia point if view is completely ignored even though it's legitimate. If the tables were turned we would try our best to keep ukraine out of allied control. Hence my devils advocacy.

I'll comment on some of your points.
I don't think it really matters if currently there nuclear warheads in Eastern Europe. They exist in founding member states. There are other types of missles and NATO could deploy nuclear ones as well without notice should they decide to.
Agreed about the eligibility, and with those sort of territorial disputes the are unlikely to gain membership anytime soon.
What do you mean 1997. The lastest member was admitted in 2020.
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Hmm. I’m not sure what to make of this.

“I don’t think it really matters if currently there Nuclear weapons in Eastern Europe” - So you are opposed to all conventional weapons in Eastern Europe? When you posted that video from Putin he said missiles pointed at Russia - if it’s not nuclear then you tell me what types of missiles he’s so infuriated by. Because the only ones that count are nuclear - if he, himself, is referring to Cuba. Regarding Ukraine, it had conventional missile systems left over from the USSR or purchased directly from Russia after Ukraine became independent. NATO wasn’t selling or supplying them until after the Crimea, Donbas and Luhansk invasions. Don’t post Russian disinformation unless you can back it up. And also … we all know what Putin in that propaganda video you took the time to post implied with “missiles pointed at Russia” - he implied and lied that they were nuclear.

“What do you mean 1997?” The Russian government, in its formal letter to the US demanded returns to pre-1997. So, Northem Macedonia was admitted in 2020? That justifies the invasion of Ukraine?

Christ, what a post. Jesus help me.

if you want to play Devil’s Advocate, at least understand the Devil you’re advocating for.
 
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spiriticon said:
I'm pretty sure NATO is confident that we can nullify his strategic nuclear threat if he uses it. No way we keep doing what we're doing without assurances.

I don't know how, and I hope we don't find out.
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We can't nullify it, that's a simple fact.

However we might be sure that the troops wouldn't fulfill the order to actually use nuclear weapons. It is likely that western intelligence knows quite well how the Russian army leaders think. We might be trying to force their hand to get rid of Putin and end this madness.
 
Rightnr said:
I have to say, I am slightly uneasy about the very public support for Ukraine by the EU and the UK with regard to sending weapons and effectively waging a proxy war. I agree with the actions but I wonder about the wisdom of advertising it so openly.

It just gives the madman an excuse to curse at the clouds and the perceived slights against him and Russia in the past. Again, I don't think less public expression of support would do much to change his mind but it somewhat seems to me that politicians in the EU and the UK are using this as a bit of a PR opportunity based on the wide-ranging public support.
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Well for Boris, he's doing all he can to save his job, so for him it's a major win.

The EU had no choice but to all agree because otherwise, it would have proven how weak the union is and no doubt would have split it in two eventually.

Hence why you saw the separate countries all out for themselves, until it all leaked and they suddenly denied it and suddenly became on the same page.

Propaganda is always the major weapon in any war.

Now in 2022, social media plays a huge part in this.
 
The NATO reason is not as important as some of you make out to try and justify Russia’s actions.

this is all on Putin. His statements about removing nazis, removing weapons and not recognizing ukraine as a sovereign country say more about his prejudices, his insanity than it does any worries about NATO. He’s literally making up reasons to go to war. His reasons aren’t consistent. So let’s stop pretending it’s about NATO when clearly it’s not. This is about a madman in power, who’s trying to bully others into living in the past like him.
 
Neo_Mufc said:
Remaining passive gives Putin an upper hand. Some level of force has to be publicly announced.
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My point is not about force. They'll still get the weapons and Putin will still know where they're coming from. But he won't have the excuse of a public support from the EU, UK and US to justify his eventual full or partial failure.

It's just so very public and feels a bit wrong. Almost like the military version of virtue signalling.
 
Neo_Mufc said:


:lol:
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It’s all so surreal because since I first started visiting Ukraine in 2010, Zelenskyy has dominated the airwaves as a member of a comedy troupe, an actor, a filmmaker, a satirist, a TV presenter and whatever else. His becoming the President was pretty surreal. Now he’s become this bulwark of hope against the closest challenger to Hitler in Europe since 1945. It’s even more farfetched than Trump.
 
choccy77 said:
Russia have no choice, they cannot use the dollar
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I know, I think I phrased my question incorrectly, my bad.

Russia have over the last 10 years reduced considerably their reliance on the USD. Russia have diversified it's holdings and only holds 16% of it's reserves in the USD with 22% in gold. In fact in their trade with China they stopped using the dollar and have been trading in yuan and Ruble for over a year.

My question should have been what would the freezing of Russia's USD do to hyperinflation in the West ? Are those dollars just removed completely from the financial system ? or are they re printed in the US effectively coming home to roost ? It's easy to do such a thing to Russia, however China with 3.2 trillion would effectively cause the Economy to be completely shutdown.

I'm just curious in terms of the effects on the global economy, a lot of people seem extremely confident that this won't effect us in terms of economy, I'm a bit sceptical in that regard.
 
TMDaines said:
Not sure these clips show what they claim. Nobody is being beaten up or attacked there.

All this shit has been debunked several times over now. If you only have passport of a third country and stayed in Ukraine until now, unsurprisingly you are going to have a very, very long wait to get through the border crossings if you only now choose to flee. Ukrainian and EU citizens are going to be prioritised for processing and that may well mean citizens of third countries waiting several days as demand for processing outstrips capacity. And no shit are the border guards going to be increasingly short on patience if people are where they shouldn’t be, refuse to listen to instructions or start trying to rush the border.
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I wonder how much objection India would have to these scenes, if it was an India village stoning a woman for being raped?

Context is everything and there are a lot of nationalities claiming unfair treatment by Ukraine at borders, but we have addressed this earlier today.
 
golden_blunder said:
The NATO reason is not as important as some of you make out to try and justify Russia’s actions.

this is all on Putin. His statements about removing nazis, removing weapons and not recognizing ukraine as a sovereign country say more about his prejudices, his insanity than it does any worries about NATO. He’s literally making up reasons to go to war. His reasons aren’t consistent. So let’s stop pretending it’s about NATO when clearly it’s not. This is about a madman in power, who’s trying to bully others into living in the past like him.
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NATO are already on his borders, i agree this is just about war and control. Decimating and controlling Ukraine under the Russian flag.
 
Rightnr said:
My point is not about force. They'll still get the weapons and Putin will still know where they're coming from. But he won't have the excuse of a public support from the EU, UK and US to justify his eventual full or partial failure.

It's just so very public and feels a bit wrong. Almost like the military version of virtue signalling.
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If we want the Ukrainians to stand we should let them know that we are on their side.
 
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