Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[nimic]

Honestly, right back at you. That goes for the ones who joined the mob and cheering at your incredible moment of self-righteous outrage (@HTG, @Red in STL and @Sly and all the ones who still didn't write about how cool you are).

I'm tired of you nitpicking my comments. I'm one of the few in this fecking thread who tries to express their opinion in more than a three words sentence or a Tweet. You can disagree with me, think that I'm light-years off the mark, a pro-Putin and that's totally okay. Personal insults not so much, even if you're a mod. I've made my thoughts as clear as I could, and I am by far no Putin fan or of what he's doing to Ukraine. And I've specifically called out on Putin's BS on Poland. If you ever followed my posts, especially in the conversation you'd know that I didn't bring Godwin just because I got tired.

Anyways, feel free to ban me from this thread or even of this forum, if you think that I'm a negative contribution to it.

I'm not a mod, so there's need to act like a victim. As for nitpicking, I think I've interacted with you maybe once, ever? My issue is not with your opinions, it's with how you treat the people you debate with lately. You add snarky, unnecessary comments that have nothing to do with the actual point you're making, and only serve to make whoever you're discussing with annoyed, unhappy or just confused.

You could have made your "let's not compare this to Hitler" argument without going "one Godwin Award to you", for example. What purpose did that serve?

 

[That_Bloke]

I'm not a mod, so there's need to act like a victim. As for nitpicking, I think I've interacted with you maybe once, ever? My issue is not with your opinions, it's with how you treat the people you debate with lately. You add snarky, unnecessary comments that have nothing to do with the actual point you're making, and only serve to make whoever you're discussing with annoyed, unhappy or just confused.

You could have made your "let's not compare this to Hitler" argument without going "one Godwin Award to you", for example. What purpose did that serve?

I thought that "scout" means that you're part of Red Café's moderation. My bad.

Yeah, you've got a point. I've felt frustrated and lashed out. Truly sorry for that.

 

[Sly]

Honestly, right back at you. That goes for the ones who joined the mob and cheering at your incredible moment of self-righteous outrage (@HTG, @Red in STL and @Sly and all the ones who still didn't write about how cool you are but don't personally engage).

I'm tired of you nitpicking my comments. I'm one of the few in this fecking thread who tries to express their opinion in more than a three words sentence or a Tweet. You can disagree with me, think that I'm light-years off the mark, a pro-Putin and that's totally okay. Personal insults not so much, even if you're a mod. I've made my thoughts as clear as I could, and I am by far no Putin fan or of what he's doing to Ukraine. I've specifically called out on Putin's BS on Poland. If you ever followed my posts, especially in the conversation with @B.Munich you'd know that I didn't bring Godwin just because I got tired.

Anyways, feel free to ban me from this thread or even of this forum if you think that I'm a negative contribution to it.

I've got no problem with your opinions, In fact we are definitely in agreement in the Israel VS Hamas thread. My problem is you constantly disobeying posting guidelines. Replying with emoji (which I advised not to and you insist on doing that you had to be warned by a mod), abrasive attitude towards others (even if I agree in relation to the opinion you're replying to), excessive use of sarcastic/snarky replies among others.

Learn to engage respectfully with others. This is not your personal playground where you behave the way you want. There are guidelines to adhere to. This is a community with rules which everyone should follow or else this will turn into chaos. These are difficult emotional times but we need some order here.

 

[Infra-red]

So is there something to take from Putin's speech or its the same shit he always repeats?

There's something 1984 about his speeches. Not something a lot.

Well, he did refer to the fighting in Ukraine as a "war" (rather than a "special military operation"). Not sure if it is the first time he has done that? He also laughed off suggestions that Russia is planning to invade Europe after it is finished with Ukraine (he presumably does not consider the Baltics or Romania/Poland as really being 'Europe', though).

 

[That_Bloke]

I've got no problem with your opinions, In fact we are definitely in agreement in the Israel VS Hamas thread. My problem is you constantly disobeying posting guidelines. Replying with emoji (which I advised not to and you insist on doing that you had to be warned by a mod), abrasive attitude towards others (even if I agree in relation to the opinion you're replying to), excessive use of sarcastic/snarky replies among others.

Learn to engage respectfully with others. This is not your personal playground where you behave the way you want. There are guidelines to adhere to. This is a community with rules which everyone should follow or else this will turn into chaos. These are difficult emotional times but we need some order here.

You and Nimic are right. I went overboard and apologize for that.

 

[nimic]

You and Nimic are right. I went overboard and apologize for that.

I appreciate that.

 

[Sly]

You and Nimic are right. I went overboard and apologize for that.

All settled and keep participating. Current events is my favorite forum here and all opinions are valuable. You just need to follow the rules. If you get aggravated, just take a breather.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Well, he did refer to the fighting in Ukraine as a "war" (rather than a "special military operation"). Not sure if it is the first time he has done that? He also laughed off suggestions that Russia is planning to invade Europe after it is finished with Ukraine (he presumably does not consider the Baltics or Romania/Poland as really being 'Europe', though).

I can't see how he'd ever consider another invasion given how badly this one has gone, even though you are probably right in that he considers those countries part of Russia. The narrative around the war now is Russia is "winning" but it really lost as soon as the invasion failed so spectacularly, the fear factor their military had is completely gone and the majority of their elite and regular soldiers are reported to have been lost (the same issue Ukraine now has). Plus, NATO members have now essentially been planning for 2 years and watching/assessing Russia in everything it does, the big problems in supply chains are being addressed, there is more joint training, more money pouring into defence across Europe. It has come at the expense of Ukraine, no doubt, but it's likely invaluable for NATO.

 

[Raoul]

It‘s essential to deal with Putin decisively. Unfortunately it will have to be done without full US support, because Congress can‘t pass anything currently because of the Republicans who have abandoned law and order, the constitution and democracy.

One thing is for certain. Europe will continue to be under pressure as long as Putin is in power.

A recent history of Russian election interference.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

God I hate Putin, the absolute madman.

 

[Infra-red]

I can't see how he'd ever consider another invasion given how badly this one has gone, even though you are probably right in that he considers those countries part of Russia. The narrative around the war now is Russia is "winning" but it really lost as soon as the invasion failed so spectacularly, the fear factor their military had is completely gone and the majority of their elite and regular soldiers are reported to have been lost (the same issue Ukraine now has). Plus, NATO members have now essentially been planning for 2 years and watching/assessing Russia in everything it does, the big problems in supply chains are being addressed, there is more joint training, more money pouring into defence across Europe. It has come at the expense of Ukraine, no doubt, but it's likely invaluable for NATO.

I agree with all of this, but one senses that the future continued existence of Ukraine (and possibly NATO) depends quite heavily on what happens in the US in November.

 

[That_Bloke]

All settled and keep participating. Current events is my favorite forum here and all opinions are valuable. You just need to follow the rules. If you get aggravated, just take a breather.

Will do.

The Ukraine and Gaza Wars took a toll on me, and made me way too abrasive to engage any discussion with a dispassionate mind.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I agree with all of this, but one senses that the future continued existence of Ukraine (and possibly NATO) depends quite heavily on what happens in the US in November.

I can't work out if Trump would be better or worse on NATO - isn't his whole spiel there are to many members not spending enough and piggybacking on the countries that commit more of their GDP to spending? Obviously the way he communicates this is ridiculous (encouraging Russia to attack underpaying countries) but maybe that is what it will take to actually get to the levels agreed. It's kind of telling when you look at who is spending and who is not, it's the countries who are closest to Russia who are above/well above the 2% pledge and countries like Belgium, Portugal, Spain, Italy who, let's face it, are not at any risk of invasion who are slacking.

https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence

For Ukraine specifically though Trump would likely be a disaster, that I agree on, he seems likely to slash or completely cut funding given they are not a NATO member.

 

[Infra-red]

I can't work out if Trump would be better or worse on NATO - isn't his whole spiel there are to many members not spending enough and piggybacking on the countries that commit more of their GDP to spending? Obviously the way he communicates this is ridiculous (encouraging Russia to attack underpaying countries) but maybe that is what it will take to actually get to the levels agreed. It's kind of telling when you look at who is spending and who is not, it's the countries who are closest to Russia who are above/well above the 2% pledge and countries like Belgium, Portugal, Spain, Italy who, let's face it, are not at any risk of invasion who are slacking.

https://www.forces.net/news/world/nato-which-countries-pay-their-share-defence

For Ukraine specifically though Trump would likely be a disaster, that I agree on, he seems likely to slash or completely cut funding given they are not a NATO member.

Former aides/advisers to trump (who admittedly probably now have an axe to grind eg John Bolton) say that Trump's pronouncements on NATO are not strategic posturing to persuade the member states to pay up a minimum of 2% of GDP, but rather a reflection of Trump's genuinely held belief that NATO is essentially a load of rubbish and the US needs to pull out of it. Given the ever closer embrace of Putin/Russia by the right in the US, I fear that a Trump victory in November would more likely than not lead to the demise of both Ukraine (Europe cannot prop them up alone) and NATO. Even if Trump did not directly pull the US out of NATO, I'd expect him to publicly erode the bedrock principle of the organisation (collective security) to such an extent that nobody would have confidence in it any more (is a Trump-lead US really going to start a shooting war with a Putin-led Russia if the latter invades the Baltic states, just because they are NATO members? I think not).

 

[B. Munich]

You have a very narrow (and eurocentric) view of the world and apparently not the slightest clue about the scale of death, chaos and destruction the West unleashed across the world since the end of WWII for its own interests and expansion. But that's okay and you're not the only one in this thread.

Being German I'm indeed no expert of American foreign policies. I read Perkins the economic hitman, so I know some of the strategies applied. These were mostly secretive US operations, thus little is known about them in Europe. Germany mostly stayed on sidelines, just giving money (e.g. Iraq war).
I don't defend these ruthless operations to gain control over foreign countries by installing or supporting corrupt and criminal governments or leaders. The US is still paying the price for their wrong policies today. I'm with you so far.

It's fair to compare US wars in Iraq, Afghanistan with Russian operations in Syria or Afghanistan.
Still what's going on in Ukraine is on a different level. Of course you are free to disagree.
If you are German too, I suppose you are in line with Sarah Wagenknecht who always argues the US did the same in Iraq. She is partly right. Both wars were wrong and against international law. Still I see a huge difference. The US never wanted to conquer Iraq and extinguish the country. They never fought a war against the civilian population purposely killing tenthousands. They never committed or encouraged war crimes Russia is doing in a daily base in Ukraine.

Take a deep breath, you're panicking because it's suddenly happening way too close for your own comfort. It's not one of all those far away sub-countries no one gives a shit about or relates to, which had the misfortune of standing in the way of a superpower like Ukraine does right now.

You are wrong here. I left Germany and Europe back in 1998 living in Thailand and now the Philippines. Thus, I'm as far away as possible.

But fear not, for you belong to the chosen ones. The current predicament will sort itself out one way or another, without your way of life being affected for a very long time.

Again you are wrong. Living only a stone throw from Clark airbase I might be affected very soon when China thinks they grab Taiwan, if the West isn't committed to prevent Russia from extinguishing the Ukraine.

It's utter bullshit and no one with basic history knowledge would fall for it. The problem is that not everyone has basic history knowledge, especially in the US, which was his target.

Isn't such distortion of facts the sign of a madmen? I'm honestly worried when Trump is elected, as he is pretty similar to Putin in twisting facts and spout his own distorted version of events.

 

[B. Munich]

You could have made your "let's not compare this to Hitler" argument without going "one Godwin Award to you", for example. What purpose did that serve?

I admit I even didn't know about Godwin Award.

Anyway it wasn't my but Putin's analogy.

It's especially ironic because Putin is defending the Uber Nazi Adolf Hitler to justify his invasion of Ukraine, which on the other hand he justified to free the country from Nazi rule.

 

[B. Munich]

Plus, NATO members have now essentially been planning for 2 years and watching/assessing Russia in everything it does, the big problems in supply chains are being addressed, there is more joint training, more money pouring into defence across Europe.

Are they really? If yes, why could Europe only deliver 30% of the pledged ammunition? Why is the frigate "Hessen" that been sent to the red sea to secure water ways from Houthi terrorist attacks already short on ammunition and there are no replacements available. Thus the shop has to return once and is no further use.

I can only speak for Germany. The desolate condition the Bundeswehr is in, has been known since 2018/19.
5 years have passed, nothing has changed.
I'm also wondering were the billions and billions of Euro will come from to buy the necessary weapon systems and ammunition. Even if the money is made available with another "Sondervermögen", (translate to debt) Germany doesn't even have infrastructure and facilities to produce so many weapons and ammunition.

German politicians and the overwhelming majority of it's population (including myself) thought a strong army is a thing of the past, not needed anything and tax money would be spend better on other projects. The few who warned about Putin and Russian aggression were dismissed as war mongers.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Are they really? If yes, why could Europe only deliver 30% of the pledged ammunition? Why is the frigate "Hessen" that been sent to the red sea to secure water ways from Houthi terrorist attacks already short on ammunition and there are no replacements available. Thus the shop has to return once and is no further use.

I can only speak for Germany. The desolate condition the Bundeswehr is in, has been known since 2018/19.
5 years have passed, nothing has changed.
I'm also wondering were the billions and billions of Euro will come from to buy the necessary weapon systems and ammunition. Even if the money is made available with another "Sondervermögen", (translate to debt) Germany doesn't even have infrastructure and facilities to produce so many weapons and ammunition.

German politicians and the overwhelming majority of it's population (including myself) thought a strong army is a thing of the past, not needed anything and tax money would be spend better on other projects. The few who warned about Putin and Russian aggression were dismissed as war mongers.

What is the sense in Germany now regarding Putin and how much should be put into defence ?

It really does feel like the dysfunctional structure of the EU/West/ NATO (with USA as divided as it is) makes it pretty much a handy enough road for Putins war economy to churn out wins quicker as he goes along.

Possibly a false equivalence argument because we don’t know how this is going to play out but it really does look like in a few years it will be like Hitler strolling around Europe picking off country’s as we hope “maybe he will stop there”.

I guess , given the political landscape of Europe (and democracy’s), I worry that no lessons have been learned and like throughout human history, we will walk into the same mistakes. There’s no strong voices from WW2 to offer sobering reminders that you can’t let these sort of characters do what they do without hitting them hard.

Ukraine was a potentially easy win for the west , to put him and Russia back in its box by throwing money and weapons at them.

 

[That_Bloke]

Being German I'm indeed no expert of American foreign policies. I read Perkins the economic hitman, so I know some of the strategies applied. These were mostly secretive US operations, thus little is known about them in Europe. Germany mostly stayed on sidelines, just giving money (e.g. Iraq war).
I don't defend these ruthless operations to gain control over foreign countries by installing or supporting corrupt and criminal governments or leaders. The US is still paying the price for their wrong policies today. I'm with you so far.

It's fair to compare US wars in Iraq, Afghanistan with Russian operations in Syria or Afghanistan.
Still what's going on in Ukraine is on a different level. Of course you are free to disagree.
If you are German too, I suppose you are in line with Sarah Wagenknecht who always argues the US did the same in Iraq. She is partly right. Both wars were wrong and against international law. Still I see a huge difference. The US never wanted to conquer Iraq and extinguish the country. They never fought a war against the civilian population purposely killing tenthousands. They never committed or encouraged war crimes Russia is doing in a daily base in Ukraine.


You are wrong here. I left Germany and Europe back in 1998 living in Thailand and now the Philippines. Thus, I'm as far away as possible.


Again you are wrong. Living only a stone throw from Clark airbase I might be affected very soon when China thinks they grab Taiwan, if the West isn't committed to prevent Russia from extinguishing the Ukraine.



Isn't such distortion of facts the sign of a madmen? I'm honestly worried when Trump is elected, as he is pretty similar to Putin in twisting facts and spout his own distorted version of events.

Mate, I'm really riled up at the moment (not directed at you).

I'll reply when I get a clear head and am able to engage a discussion in a more civil manner than before.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Are they really? If yes, why could Europe only deliver 30% of the pledged ammunition? Why is the frigate "Hessen" that been sent to the red sea to secure water ways from Houthi terrorist attacks already short on ammunition and there are no replacements available. Thus the shop has to return once and is no further use.

I can only speak for Germany. The desolate condition the Bundeswehr is in, has been known since 2018/19.
5 years have passed, nothing has changed.
I'm also wondering were the billions and billions of Euro will come from to buy the necessary weapon systems and ammunition. Even if the money is made available with another "Sondervermögen", (translate to debt) Germany doesn't even have infrastructure and facilities to produce so many weapons and ammunition.

German politicians and the overwhelming majority of it's population (including myself) thought a strong army is a thing of the past, not needed anything and tax money would be spend better on other projects. The few who warned about Putin and Russian aggression were dismissed as war mongers.

My point was all the issues we (by we I mean all the European countries who seem to have been caught cold by this) are now rectifying at least some of the issues.

The ammo issue is the main one NATO need to address through standardisation, someone else was posting about this a while back, when you look at all the different gear needed by the different NATO armies, it's ridiculous. That part needs urgent uniformity. That said France and Germany rank in the top 5 arms exporters, obviously the US is No1, so you have 3 of the top 5 globally in NATO.

 

[Rajma]

I genuinely can’t believe what this clown is spouting after 2 years of Russian brutality, it’s really making me uneasy knowing we have chosen Germany as our strategic defense partner within NATO if this is a prevailing opinion across the political establishment.

 

[frostbite]

Are they really? If yes, why could Europe only deliver 30% of the pledged ammunition? Why is the frigate "Hessen" that been sent to the red sea to secure water ways from Houthi terrorist attacks already short on ammunition and there are no replacements available. Thus the shop has to return once and is no further use.

I can only speak for Germany. The desolate condition the Bundeswehr is in, has been known since 2018/19.
5 years have passed, nothing has changed.
I'm also wondering were the billions and billions of Euro will come from to buy the necessary weapon systems and ammunition. Even if the money is made available with another "Sondervermögen", (translate to debt) Germany doesn't even have infrastructure and facilities to produce so many weapons and ammunition.

German politicians and the overwhelming majority of it's population (including myself) thought a strong army is a thing of the past, not needed anything and tax money would be spend better on other projects. The few who warned about Putin and Russian aggression were dismissed as war mongers.

For years, Germany were paying almost nothing for defense. Actually, they were making money because they were exporting arms. Germany had tremendous budget surpluses, but they did not use them for defense. For defense, Germany could rely on USA and Poland. It is simple, isn't it?

At the same time, the corrupt and bankrupt Greece was spending over 2% of their budget for defense (buying from Germany among else) because there was always the real danger that Turkey will do to Greece what Russia did to Ukraine. Greece has 10 million people, Turkey has 80 million people. And of course NATO will not be involved, since both Turkey and Greece are NATO members. Greece asked many times from Germany for support in this, but Germany has a lot of factories in Turkey and a lot of Turkish voters live in Germany, so Germany never committed to anything. Greece had to spend on defense, there was no other solution.

I can accept all that, it is politics, Germany is trying to make money and they don't care about anyone else. That's normal. That's what everyone who has read history expects from Germany.

But I am still very upset that Germany has been able to sell this behavior to other Europeans as the "HIGH MORALS" stance. The country who has been the worst European country in the past 100 years, who killed more Europeans than anyone else, who absorbed East Germany (one of the worst communist countries) and Stasi and their agents, somehow sold to the other Europeans that now they are the epitome of HIGH MORALS! Well, no, they are not. Unfortunately, a lot of them are the same selfish bastards they have always been. If Trump is elected in the USA, it will be the end of Ukraine, Germany will not lift a finger to help them. And I am really worried that this will give the green light to Turkey against Greece.

 

[B. Munich]

For years, Germany were paying almost nothing for defense.

I think Germany paid between 1,2 and 1,4% of the GDP. Pretty much in line with many other West European allies.
You are right it was way below the pledged 2%. Still.I wouldn't call it almost nothing. It used to be between 40 and 45 billion Euros.

Germany had tremendous budget surpluses, but they did not use them for defense. For defense, Germany could rely on USA and Poland. It is simple, isn't it?

I wouldn't know about that. Germany has a debt break that regulates government spending but I can't remember about tremendous surpluses.
Germany relying on Poland? How this? Or you mean just taking Poland as buffer between us and Russia? The same did the whole West during the cold war except then Germany has been the buffer.

At the same time, the corrupt and bankrupt Greece was spending over 2% of their budget for defense (buying from Germany among else) because there was always the real danger that Turkey will do to Greece what Russia did to Ukraine.

Are you Greek? Don't know what you expect Germany to do. The Greek Turkey tensions exists for for many decades and it's a shame that 2 NATO allies can't resolve their issues. On the other hand it shows how difficult it is to burry long lasting animosities.

I can accept all that, it is politics, Germany is trying to make money and they don't care about anyone else. That's normal. That's what everyone who has read history expects from Germany.

Germany had pretty strict rules about weapon exports and it's not an huge industry. That shows now when it becomes more and more clear it will take many years to ramp up the capabilities to produce enough weapons and especially ammunition.

But I am still very upset that Germany has been able to sell this behavior to other Europeans as the "HIGH MORALS" stance.

You have a point here. I agree that Germany used this argument several times to avoid to take a bigger part in conflicts.
However, since February 24th this is a stance of the past.

If Trump is elected in the USA, it will be the end of Ukraine, Germany will not lift a finger to help them. A

We will see. Germany alone can't support the Ukraine. We are three second highest donor of weapons and funds after the US by a distance. Could it be more? Surely. Unfortunately, Scholz is a procrastinator.

 

[Real Name]

Are you Greek? Don't know what you expect Germany to do. The Greek Turkey tensions exists for for many decades and it's a shame that 2 NATO allies can't resolve their issues. On the other hand it shows how difficult it is to burry long lasting animosities.

I see you're not familiar with his work.

 

[B. Munich]

I see you're not familiar with his work.

With whose work?

 

[VorZakone]

WSJ piece on the "peace deal" back in 2022.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Oh my God, WHAT?!



Tucker is already quite one of the biggest sacks of shit on Earth, but Putin must be quite something of an extremely bad used car salesman if he can't fool the guy.

 

[Simbo]

Oh my God, WHAT?!



Tucker is already quite one of the biggest sacks of shit on Earth, but Putin must be quite something of an extremely bad used car salesman if he can't fool the guy.

For Tucker, he's just trying to get himself back on the map, and its working. Its not like Putin cared about convincing him of anything, that interview was just fuel for certain audiences. These people don't say what they really think.

Still funny Tucker coming out with that though.

 

[stefan92]

For Tucker, he's just trying to get himself back on the map, and its working. Its not like Putin cared about convincing him of anything, that interview was just fuel for certain audiences. These people don't say what they really think.

Still funny Tucker coming out with that though.

Would be really funny if it should emerge that that Interview convinced him that Putin indeed is wrong about what he is doing and changes his views on the conflict. Far too early to call that, but it would be an interesting development.

 

[Simbo]

Would be really funny if it should emerge that that Interview convinced him that Putin indeed is wrong about what he is doing and changes his views on the conflict. Far too early to call that, but it would be an interesting development.

Or they paid him in roubles...

Or the sexy FSB lady they tried setting him up with made fun of his pp.

 

[Simbo]

 

[Real Name]

With whose work?

frostbite.

 

[Real Name]

For Tucker, he's just trying to get himself back on the map, and its working. Its not like Putin cared about convincing him of anything, that interview was just fuel for certain audiences. These people don't say what they really think.

Still funny Tucker coming out with that though.

He just realized he was Putin's useful idiot.

 

[Deleted 112447]

The Israel thing is huge. There are enormous numbers of weapons that can now go to Ukraine (just as an example, Romania alone has thousands of advanced anti tank missiles that could not be donated because they are made in Israel and did not have the go ahead). That plus the Israel military industry can receive orders to make systems. One of the biggest issues for Europe is not about money but production capacity, adding the Israel military complex to the production chain is superb news.

 

[B. Munich]

frostbite.

No I don't. No idea who @frostbite is in real life.

 

[4bars]

For Tucker, he's just trying to get himself back on the map, and its working. Its not like Putin cared about convincing him of anything, that interview was just fuel for certain audiences. These people don't say what they really think.

Still funny Tucker coming out with that though.

I think they told him that he was flying to close to the sun of treason and he decided to push himself apart. The deed had been done and he had the benefit of it. Now he can push any other narrative that he wants

 

[maniak]

No I don't. No idea who @frostbite is in real life.

He voices in a very extreme way what a lot of people in southern europe think. That southern european countries were massacred by unnecessary austerity to save big financial institutions, many of them german. A lot of the poverty created at the time persists to this day and most economists now recognize those austerity measures as a gigantic mistake. Those in greece, portugal and spain saying this at the time were called radicals.

Something I realize when talking to germans or dutch is that they are generally completely unaware of how disastrous the policies their governments imposed on others were and so they fail to understand this grievance.

Sorry for the off topic.

 

[HTG]

He voices in a very extreme way what a lot of people in southern europe think. That southern european countries were massacred by unnecessary austerity to save big financial institutions, many of them german. A lot of the poverty created at the time persists to this day and most economists now recognize those austerity measures as a gigantic mistake. Those in greece, portugal and spain saying this at the time were called radicals.

Something I realize when talking to germans or dutch is that they are generally completely unaware of how disastrous the policies their governments imposed on others were and so they fail to understand this grievance.

Sorry for the off topic.

They really are clueless for the most part. Many people here actually believe we saved Greece, Spain etc.
But it's obviously a stupid reason for hostility towards a person who hasn't implicated to condone these policies.

 

[maniak]

They really are clueless for the most part. Many people here actually believe we saved Greece, Spain etc.
But it's obviously a stupid reason for hostility towards a person who hasn't implicated to condone these policies.

Sure, I agree.

 

[B. Munich]

He voices in a very extreme way what a lot of people in southern europe think. That southern european countries were massacred by unnecessary austerity to save big financial institutions, many of them german. A lot of the poverty created at the time persists to this day and most economists now recognize those austerity measures as a gigantic mistake. Those in greece, portugal and spain saying this at the time were called radicals.

Something I realize when talking to germans or dutch is that they are generally completely unaware of how disastrous the policies their governments imposed on others were and so they fail to understand this grievance.

Sorry for the off topic.

Ok I got your point. However, in his reply @frostbite never mentioned this but rather accused Germany of not spending enough for the military but making fortunes in selling weapons to other nations.

To solely blame Germany or other Northern European States is as wrong as putting all the blame to the southern, Mediterranean countries. The Euro was meant to unify Europe but die to it's many flaws achieved the opposite by causing mistrust and animosities between the different countries. A common currency like the Euro can only work after all participating countries are politically or at least fiscally unified. A single currency but 20 different fiscal policies is asking for disasters.

Anyway the topic you mentioned is definitely off topic and so complex that it would need it's own threat.