Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

Almost 3 months since Prigozhin got killed. It's been quiet on the Russian side without his rants. Girkin detained so his voice is silenced too.
 
Rajma said:
Nonense, in Mariupol alone tens of thousands burried under ground which UN won’t ever be able to verify, thus will be parroting this propaganda figure.
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They're acknowledging that the real toll will be significantly higher. So...what's your beef here?
 
VorZakone said:
They're acknowledging that the real toll will be significantly higher. So...what's your beef here?
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The beef is with the very misleading headline figures provided by the UN as this is what most people will be taking away when in fact the actual figure is several factors larger. It should have the “confirmed” in it.

However, when it comes to Gaza, UN are quite happy to use HAMAS figures without any verification whatsoever in their official statements, when at the same time they’re ignoring the realistic estimates from the UN Ukraine office.
The most corrupt organization imaginable.
 
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Such a weak administration, unfortunately, we’re not spoiled for choice in terms of choosing the leaders in the west. “We continue to be concerned”.
 
Rajma said:
The beef is with the very misleading headline figures provided by the UN as this is what most people will be taking away when in fact the actual figure is several factors larger. It should have the “confirmed” in it.

However, when it comes to Gaza, UN are quite happy to use HAMAS figures without any verification whatsoever in their official statements, when at the same time they’re ignoring the realistic estimates from the UN Ukraine office.

The most corrupt organization imaginable.
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To be fair, Ukraine doesn’t have control on the ground in Mariupol, sadly, unlike Hamas — hence the wording (75000 are feared dead). Even though it’s obvious that the toll is much, much higher than 10k (in Mariupol alone, let alone the rest of Ukraine) and probably close to that 150k estimate. Is “confirmed” that different than the term “official tally” that they use, which basically means the same?
 
harms said:
To be fair, Ukraine doesn’t have control on the ground in Mariupol, sadly, unlike Hamas — hence the wording (75000 are feared dead). Even though it’s obvious that the toll is much, much higher than 10k (in Mariupol alone, let alone the rest of Ukraine) and probably close to that 150k estimate. Is “confirmed” that different than the term “official tally” that they use, which basically means the same?
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True, but Hamas shouldn't be treated as a trustworthy source (they released images of sites "just after strikes" along with numbers of dead that just don't match if you simply count the visible bodies, besides being a terrorist organization anyway that is claiming excessive numbers as part of their propaganda war to deny Israel support from other countries). And even if we believe this to be true it is still outrageous to claim that the killing of civilians in Gaza is "unparalleled" during Gutierres time in office. We also have significant numbers of dead in the Ethiopian, Myanmar and Sudanese civil wars, even if we ignore Ukraine. Ignoring all these conflicts to just focus on Israel is truly shameful.
 
stefan92 said:
True, but Hamas shouldn't be treated as a trustworthy source (they released images of sites "just after strikes" along with numbers of dead that just don't match if you simply count the visible bodies, besides being a terrorist organization anyway that is claiming excessive numbers as part of their propaganda war to deny Israel support from other countries). And even if we believe this to be true it is still outrageous to claim that the killing of civilians in Gaza is "unparalleled" during Gutierres time in office. We also have significant numbers of dead in the Ethiopian, Myanmar and Sudanese civil wars, even if we ignore Ukraine. Ignoring all these conflicts to just focus on Israel is truly shameful.
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How many civilians do you think have been killed?
 
stefan92 said:
Low five digit numbers for all I mentioned, only Ukraine probably in six digit range by now.
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I think it’s widely believed that civilian deaths in the Tigray war are well into the hundreds of thousands now.
 
stefan92 said:
Low five digit numbers for all I mentioned, only Ukraine probably in six digit range by now.
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So the 'figure from Hamas' is made up but is also in the low five figures? So the figure that's currently out there?
 
Rajma said:
Such a weak administration, unfortunately, we’re not spoiled for choice in terms of choosing the leaders in the west. “We continue to be concerned”.
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It's one of those rare cases where I would happily trade all of those dumb cnuts currently working for National Security and the Pentagon (Sullivan, Kirby, Singh, etc.) out and then re-hire John Bolton in return. There is a need for a more aggressive approach in supporting Ukraine here.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
It's one of those rare cases where I would happily trade all of those dumb cnuts currently working for National Security and the Pentagon (Sullivan, Kirby, Singh, etc.) out and then re-hire John Bolton in return. There is a need for a more aggressive approach in supporting Ukraine here.
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John Bolton would be too busy throwing bombs on Iran by this point
 
For those screaming negotiations for Ukraine to give up on their territory and people, how can Ukraine abandon those living under occupation in these hostile conditions? It’s country’s constitutional duty. Villages on the left bank are being liberated:
 
Rajma said:
For those screaming negotiations for Ukraine to give up on their territory and people, how can Ukraine abandon those living under occupation in these hostile conditions? It’s country’s constitutional duty. Villages on the left bank are being liberated:
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Bro, it is not about screaming negotiations while Ukraine is in a winning position. Ukraine needs people - NATO troops - to win this war. There are simply not enough skilled soldiers on Ukraine’s side left to make any significant progress. This isn’t Russian propaganda, it is a reality.
 
ExoduS said:
Bro, it is not about screaming negotiations while Ukraine is in a winning position. Ukraine needs people - NATO troops - to win this war. There are simply not enough skilled soldiers on Ukraine’s side left to make any significant progress. This isn’t Russian propaganda, it is a reality.
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There’s definitely enough soldiers in Ukraine but unfortunately not enough will in the west to provide the necessary equipment in needed quantities, and by west I mean US realistically speaking as only they have tens of thousands amounts of heavy armor / AD / long-range missiles / jets sitting in the storage or scrapyards but the Biden admin is paralyzed by fear and are instead focusing on escalation management. Biden allowed for lend-lease (40bUSD) to expire, and didn’t push for large aid necessary to win this war when democrats had the congress earlier in the war, it’s all about political willingness.
 
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Rajma said:
There’s definitely enough soldiers in Ukraine but unfortunately not enough will in the west to provide the necessary equipment in needed quantities, and by west I mean US realistically speaking as only they have tens of thousands amounts of heavy armor / AD / long-range missiles / jets sitting in the storage or scrapyards but the Biden admin is paralyzed by fear and are instead focusing on escalation management. Biden allowed for lend-lease (40bUSD) to expire, and didn’t push for large aid necessary to win this war when democrats had the congress earlier in the war, it’s all about political willingness.
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"Definitely" enough? This goes against anything I have read so far. Manpower issue seems to be a real concern.
 
Rajma said:
There’s definitely enough soldiers in Ukraine but unfortunately not enough will in the west to provide the necessary equipment in needed quantities, and by west I mean US realistically speaking as only they have tens of thousands amounts of heavy armor / AD / long-range missiles / jets sitting in the storage or scrapyards but the Biden admin is paralyzed by fear and are instead focusing on escalation management. Biden allowed for lend-lease (40bUSD) to expire, and didn’t push for large aid necessary to win this war when democrats had the congress earlier in the war, it’s all about political willingness.
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Well. I will respectfully disagree with you. Going all in initially would definitely escalate this conflict. How bad it would get I really do not know.

Equipment is not unlimited either. Sure there are few tanks here and there, but with all these conflicts brewing there is just not enough surplus.

Gigantic feckup all around.
 
VorZakone said:
"Definitely" enough? This goes against anything I have read so far. Manpower issue seems to be a real concern.
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I think you can train soldiers and equip them if we still have the will to invest in Ukraine winning the war…
 
ExoduS said:
Well. I will respectfully disagree with you. Going all in initially would definitely escalate this conflict. How bad it would get I really do not know.

Equipment is not unlimited either. Sure there are few tanks here and there, but with all these conflicts brewing there is just not enough surplus.

Gigantic feckup all around.
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The Americans have thousands of tanks in storage. Probably 10s of thousands.
 
Perhaps I've missed it but we haven't seen much of the Challenger yet, have we? The Bradley & Leopard have been seen in action a lot more.

 
Rajma said:
There’s definitely enough soldiers in Ukraine but unfortunately not enough will in the west to provide the necessary equipment in needed quantities, and by west I mean US realistically speaking as only they have tens of thousands amounts of heavy armor / AD / long-range missiles / jets sitting in the storage or scrapyards but the Biden admin is paralyzed by fear and are instead focusing on escalation management. Biden allowed for lend-lease (40bUSD) to expire, and didn’t push for large aid necessary to win this war when democrats had the congress earlier in the war, it’s all about political willingness.
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Agree with this. There are about 45m Ukrainians and all fighting age males are required to participate (along with some females), so it strains credulity to believe they don’t have enough people to fight. The country that doesn’t have enough troops is the one needing to free prisoners to fight on the front lines.
 
Raoul said:
Agree with this. There are about 45m Ukrainians and all fighting age males are required to participate (along with some females), so it strains credulity to believe they don’t have enough people to fight. The country that doesn’t have enough troops is the one needing to free prisoners to fight on the front lines.
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This article says about 31m Ukrainians live in territory controlled by Ukraine: https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/ukraines-demography-second-year-full-fledged-war

As of January 1, 2023, 37.6 million people lived in the territory within the 1991 borders, 32.6 million within the 2022 borders, and 31.1 million in the territories currently controlled by the Ukrainian government.
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Raoul said:
Agree with this. There are about 45m Ukrainians and all fighting age males are required to participate (along with some females), so it strains credulity to believe they don’t have enough people to fight. The country that doesn’t have enough troops is the one needing to free prisoners to fight on the front lines.
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It’s closer to 34m I read in reality a huge chunk has left initially and part of the population are under occupation.
 
Raoul said:
ok, so 37m. That should be more than enough to contribute a few million soldiers to a war threatening the country’s very existence.
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In theory. But when you listen to frontline interviews with Ukrainian troops or read other articles, the general mood is that manpower is a real problem.

And why are you using the 37m figure? The Russian-controlled Donbas and Crimea won't fight for the Ukrainian side.
 
VorZakone said:
In theory. But when you listen to frontline interviews with Ukrainian troops or read other articles, the general mood is that manpower is a real problem.

And why are you using the 37m figure? The Russian-controlled Donbas and Crimea won't fight for the Ukrainian side.
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Doesn't matter. The Ukrainians are fighting to save their own existence and have more than enough people to fight.
 
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