Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

I had missed this Guardian story on Meloni from a couple of weeks ago.


‘Tiredness on all sides’ over war in Ukraine, Italian PM tells prank caller
The Italian prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, told a prank caller posing as an African leader there was “a lot of tiredness” over the war in Ukraine and that she had some ideas up her sleeve on how to “find a way out”.

Meloni’s office confirmed that she had been “misled” into the phone call – reportedly by two Russian comedians – that took place on 18 September “by an impostor who passed himself off as the president of the African Union Commission”.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/01/italy-giorgia-meloni-prank-call-russia-ukraine-war
 
Another dead general. He is the 7th general to have died, according to other tweets.

 
Is there a reliable death toll for this war as I have seen figures of half a million on the internet which is just heart breaking and hopefully not true.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Is there a reliable death toll for this war as I have seen figures of half a million on the internet which is just heart breaking and hopefully not true.
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New York Times had an article in August on military casualties. About 500K, of which 200K were deaths and 300K wounded. Those are combined figures for Ukraine + Russia and obviously estimates so we don't know for sure.

As for civilian deaths, I think about 10K has been confirmed? But real toll likely higher.
 
So, Lavrov is basically admitting that Moldova is next on their list, if they can get Ukraine.
Obviously "the west" would be to blame for that as well, of course, as with everything else.
 
Morty_ said:
So, Lavrov is basically admitting that Moldova is next on their list, if they can get Ukraine.
Obviously "the west" would be to blame for that as well, of course, as with everything else.
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Can you please share the source?
 
ExoduS said:
Can you please share the source?
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From Newsweek.

"The Kozak Memorandum, which could have reliably resolved the situation in Moldova 20 years ago, is among the thwarted attempts to resolve the acute problems of our continent on the basis of OSCE principles," Lavrov said. "At that time, NATO and EU Brussels unceremoniously torpedoed the document.... In fact, Moldova is destined to be the next victim in the hybrid war against Russia unleashed by the West."
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Honestly, Lavrov can take 12 metal dildos up his arse for all people care about him.
 
VorZakone said:
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He needs to give them the Saab planes then. I'm sad at the apathy that seems to have set in about Ukraine. Obviously things don't always go to plan in war, it doesn't mean you just give up. It was right then and it's still right now that we should arm them with everything we reasonably can to help them win. I'm no fan of the military industrial complex but sign the deals needed to arm Ukraine.
 
TwoSheds said:
He needs to give them the Saab planes then. I'm sad at the apathy that seems to have set in about Ukraine. Obviously things don't always go to plan in war, it doesn't mean you just give up. It was right then and it's still right now that we should arm them with everything we reasonably can to help them win. I'm no fan of the military industrial complex but sign the deals needed to arm Ukraine.
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Personally I think the idea that Ukraine can defeat Russia on the battlefield just isn't realistic.

But that in itself shouldn't necessarily be an alarming thing. We have historical examples of countries quitting a war because of rising economic costs or the political leaders realising there's nothing to gain by continuing it.

In this case I think there has to be a lot more economic pressure on Russia. Make Putin feel like he's really going to run out of money if he continues.

And in the meantime more aid to Ukraine.
 
VorZakone said:
Personally I think the idea that Ukraine can defeat Russia on the battlefield just isn't realistic.

But that in itself shouldn't necessarily be an alarming thing. We have historical examples of countries quitting a war because of rising economic costs or the political leaders realising there's nothing to gain by continuing it.

In this case I think there has to be a lot more economic pressure on Russia. Make Putin feel like he's really going to run out of money if he continues.

And in the meantime more aid to Ukraine.
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Exactly. Whether they win or not, give them everything we can to help them punish Russia's military and economy as much as possible as well as minimise the Ukrainian casualties. We in the collective west should be on a quasi war footing right now and it seems so half hearted.
 
I swaer to God that Ukrainian generals must be incompetent as feck when they don't find a way to take better advantage of the situation and thus choose to get bogged down in a war of attrition. Everyone and the dog know that Russia is never beaten in a war of attrition. It is often beaten through a series of morale-crushing defeats that make the Russians lose hope for any better outcome.
 
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RedDevilQuebecois said:
I swaer to God that Ukrainian generals must incompetent as feck when they don't find a way to take better advantage of the situation and thus choose to get bogged down in a war of attrition. Everyone and the dog know that Russia is never beaten in a war of attrition. It is often beaten through a series of morale-crushing defeats that make the Russians lose hope for any better outcome.
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But what do you propose to Ukrainian military leadership then?

The one thing I'm wondering is what the West is advising Ukraine to do. We know they're doing wargame simulations. We know Ukraine receives Western intel on Russian military movements.
 
VorZakone said:
But what do you propose to Ukrainian military leadership then?

The one thing I'm wondering is what the West is advising Ukraine to do. We know they're doing wargame simulations. We know Ukraine receives Western intel on Russian military movements.
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Using those newly acquired Western tanks in battle would be a good start instead of keeping them at the back or in positions where their ful potential is not exploited. Business Insider wrote an article about the topic over a week ago. The following part of the text is shocking.

The lack of a major role for these tanks was notable in Ukraine's counteroffensive operations in Zaporizhzhia, an important offensive axis.

Ukraine sought to break through Russian defenses, opening an area wide enough to then allow its tanks and armored vehicles to travel safely. Once there, the goal was to use those tanks against less extensive defenses, wreak havoc, and enable further breakthroughs. Ultimately, Ukraine wanted to drive a line down to the Sea of Azov, slicing Russian occupied territory in two and cutting the so-called "land bridge" between Russia and Crimea.

The results were ineffective, and as winter comes, Ukraine is now facing the stark reality of a counteroffensive that hasn't gained much territory and potential future Russian offensives, like the one happening in Avdiivka now.
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For the record, the Abrams tanks have not seen any action in Ukraine so far at all.:wenger::nono:
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
Using those newly acquired Western tanks in battle would be a good start instead of keeping them at the back or in positions where their ful potential is not exploited. Business Insider wrote an article about the topic over a week ago. The following part of the text is shocking.



For the record, the Abrams tanks have not seen any action in Ukraine so far at all.:wenger::nono:
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You understand that when you go in on the offensive you will burn through the equipment without the air support / defense? Ukraine obviously doesn’t want to waste strategic reserves when west have failed to pledge new heavy armor to replace what they currently have? We have failed them badly. No general worth their salt will allow an army to run out of the equipment.

NATO sec. admits himself that current battlefield issues are to do with lack of western support:



Former US 4 star general:

 
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Hamas and israel really helping russia here, this is hardly in the news anymore.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
I swaer to God that Ukrainian generals must be incompetent as feck when they don't find a way to take better advantage of the situation and thus choose to get bogged down in a war of attrition. Everyone and the dog know that Russia is never beaten in a war of attrition. It is often beaten through a series of morale-crushing defeats that make the Russians lose hope for any better outcome.
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I thought NATO is providing intelligence.
 
Redut PMC is run by the Russian GRU.

Redut was created “so that people could avoid paying taxes or, for example, any court costs,” one recruiter told Systema.

This arrangement also allows the Russian government and military to maintain a layer of legal distance from the many fighters and units under the umbrella of this ostensibly private organization.
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Moscow raises troop levels, citing Ukraine war, NATO expansion

Russia is boosting the number of troops in its military for the second time in 15 months, citing the war in Ukraine and the expansion of the NATO defense alliance.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday ordered the military to increase the number of troops by nearly 170,000 to a total of 1.3 million as the Ukraine war grinds on after 21 months. Putin’s decree, which entered into force immediately, brings the overall number of Russian military personnel to 2.2 million, including 1.3 million troops.
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https://www.politico.eu/article/rus...ases-its-troop-numbers-by-170000-ukraine-war/
 
Klitscho making a play against Zelensky?

Klitschko says Ukraine is turning authoritarian as conflict with Zelensky persists


Kyiv Mayor Vitali Klitschko has told Der Spiegel that Ukraine is moving towards authoritarianism, seemingly making a veiled criticism of President Volodymyr Zelensky. "At some point we will no longer be any different from Russia, where everything depends on the whim of one man," the former heavyweight boxing champion said in a Dec. 1 interview.

Zelensky's spokesman Serhiy Nikiforov did not respond to a request for comment by the time of publication.

The Kyiv mayor said that Ukraine was leaderless and chaotic in the opening months of the full-scale war, and credited Ukraine's mayors with playing key leadership roles, protecting their residents and supporting the military.
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https://kyivindependent.com/klitsch...ritarian-as-conflict-with-president-persists/
 
VorZakone said:
But that in itself shouldn't necessarily be an alarming thing. We have historical examples of countries quitting a war because of rising economic costs or the political leaders realising there's nothing to gain by continuing it.

In this case I think there has to be a lot more economic pressure on Russia. Make Putin feel like he's really going to run out of money if he continues.
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I don't think that the realpolitik approach works with Putin. He already crashed his entire economy to the point that the additional sanctions from the West can scarcely hit harder... and he still keeps going. While China & co are happy to keep Russia's economy on life-support in the meantime.
 
harms said:
I don't think that the realpolitik approach works with Putin. He already crashed his entire economy to the point that the additional sanctions from the West can scarcely hit harder... and he still keeps going. While China & co are happy to keep Russia's economy on life-support in the meantime.
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I'm not sure this is true? I thought I read a couple of pieces on Russia circumventing Western energy sanctions and the West looking into new ways to counter that. So I don't think the West has fully invested itself yet on attacking Russia's energy revenue.

https://www.ft.com/content/277c1f9c-3f0f-4562-b0f0-80b390012087
(no paywall, at least not for me anyway)
 
VorZakone said:
If he does another mobilisation, will he announce it or will it happen in silence?
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The silent one is already happening (it never stopped). But if he needs another 100k+, he'll need to say something.
 
We will never know what would have happened if the Ukr forces pushed on the south last year instead of defending Bakhmut like how they did.

They are not even close to recapture it now.
 
The United said:
We will never know what would have happened if the Ukr forces pushed on the south last year instead of defending Bakhmut like how they did.

They are not even close to recapture it now.
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Maybe the Wagner-MoD tension doesn't happen without Bakhmut...
 
The United said:
We will never know what would have happened if the Ukr forces pushed on the south last year instead of defending Bakhmut like how they did.

They are not even close to recapture it now.
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Bakhmut isn't important in itself, what would have happened if they didn't defend it? Well, Russia then goes on to attack other cities close by, one can argue if that was worth defending the area or not, but it probably was.

In any case, southern offensive would have stalled anyway, due to Avdiivka, which has real strategic importance, Ukraine had to commit here, no other options.
 
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