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Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion
- Thread starter Wednesday at Stoke
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This tweet is wrong and the MoD is right. The 25th is a newly formed formation, it did not exist at the beginning of the counter offensive and it is likely not as well trained as it should be before joining the battlefield. Deploying them now proves that Russia has a lack of well trained troops at the moment.
Some terrific debates in this thread in recent pages.
I wonder if this will trigger a bit more discussion here: https://archive.ph/MqvEq
Quite a long article about who blew up NordStream last year. Lots of details in it, but tl;dr: it seems to be most likely that it was Ukrainian special forces who destroyed this shared Russian-German asset.
So much about "it was the Russians, who else?"
I was always of the impression it was the US so Russia could no longer threaten to turn off the gas. For me it was always the us or Ukraine. Russia had nothing to win from it.
I think its unlikely its the US, unless they made it look like it was the Ukrainians. Either way, rather awkward now, If it turns out it was sanctioned from the very top.
If it was the Ukrainians then they need to be held to task for it. I'm not sure if there is a definitive answer on who did it though (is there?) given that any nation state involved would obviously deny it.
If it indeed was the Ukraine we should thank them. They’ve done more to fight our dependance on Russian resources than our government ever did.
Politically not great though
So was building this damn pipeline. I welcome its destruction.
I agree with you, however the likes of AfD will milk this to no end.
Was the Nordstream pipeline ever likely to be used again?
Didn't western countries already decide to stop using it?
Didn't western countries already decide to stop using it?
Sure. But they would try to milk a stone if they could get anything out of it. The rise of the AfD itself is one of the reasons these projects should have never been started. The more dependent we became on Russia, the more influence they gained on our political landscape. The AfD is funded in big parts by Russia. So the more ties we cut with Russia, the better.
We really need to fight Russian influence in Germany. Otherwise we’ll end up like a Russian satellite state like Austria.
I cant fecking stand the sight of Russell Brand and his Rocky Dennis bone structure.
At that time Germany had decided to not open NS2 by simply refusing to give the operating license, which was an ingenious way to find a low-profile solution. Technically it was a kind of "well I assure you it is right at the top of my desk" that I guess everyone has heard some time in his life when dealing with bureaucracy.
Russia had stopped delivery through NS1 in response to sanctions but was open to sending gas through NS2 (that was more or less contractual nitpicking why they offered it this way).
So at the time the explosions happened no gas was flowing through the pipelines but effectively both Germany and Russia could have unilaterally decided to open either NS1 or NS2 again if you take both sides by their words at that time.
Considering Germany's slow start to support Ukraine in the war it is no wonder that Ukraine didn't trust this. Especially considering that the only real purpose of NS always has been to become independent of Ukrainian trouble, it took a lot of leverage away from Ukraine.
Thanks for the info, personally I think it was unlikely that Germany would have decided to reopen either of the pipelines any time soon, given the feelings towards Russia. It'll be interesting what happens in the future in the event of a regime change in Russia if they finally discover demoracy over there and elect a sensible government.
Technically than we would need to transfer Russian gas through the still existing pipelines through Ukraine. And I would suggest to Ukraine to demand really low transit fees for that...
You were on the " it was the Russian's who else" all the way. Specially with the superproof a newspaper (that said might be the US first, might be the ukrainians after) said could be the russians
But now that it seems that there is more and more evidence that it was the ukrainians, there is no definitive answer? Don't get me wrong, I fully agree on this last sentence. We will probably never know. But I got quite a flak for this
I'm sorry you received flak back then. Its entirely plausible the Ukrainians, in their zeal to do something, may have considered this. Although it would take a fair bit of evidence to prove it, which may never emerge in the public.
Is in no interest to anyone that is known. And I am sure all nations (US, Germany, Russia and Ukraine) knows. But disclosing it could not be on the best of their interest. Specially if it was Ukraine or US (IMO very very unlikely) as would mean and ally attacking a german previously key infrastructure
While, as I already said , I don't think it's the US behind it, they don't really consider Germany a genuine ally the way they do with UK or Australia for example. For example, as it was revealed during the Snowden leaks, not only did they eavesdrop on Merkel, but also placed some dormant malwares in key infrastructure systems. "Just in case". Same with Japan, btw
I'd love to know how he drifted towards right wing politics given he was quite different a decade ago. But that's for the Brand thread.
Quite the brand shift, you say
Germany is an ally of the US, he is not as a close ally compared with who you named? of course, as everybody has friends and best friends. And US spying on Germany is a poor point. US had been spying (and all the countries if they could/can) all his allies and enemies alike forever. If not take AG crypto owned by CIA with the collaboration funnily enough of west Germany (not bad for a the stronger part of the country of a none ally)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ity/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/
This are 60ish countries of the 120 countries that bought the system that were spied and at the same time, they heard all the conversations that these countries had with others that they didn't have it.
A pivot that should've been blunted.
I wasn't making a point , merely a comment. As I said, I agree with you that it wasn't the US behind the sabotage.Germany is an ally of the US, he is not as a close ally compared with who you named? of course, as everybody has friends and best friends. And US spying on Germany is a poor point. US had been spying (and all the countries if they could/can) all his allies and enemies alike forever. If not take AG crypto owned by CIA with the collaboration funnily enough of west Germany (not bad for a the stronger part of the country of a none ally)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ity/cia-crypto-encryption-machines-espionage/
This are 60ish countries of the 120 countries that bought the system that were spied and at the same time, they heard all the conversations that these countries had with others that they didn't have it.
Also while the spying can be brushed aside as "everyone does it" and "it happened by accident" type of scenarios, deliberatrly placing software backdoors on critical systems ready to go live after spending years dormant, is a bit like...you know placing a bomb on on a gas pipeline. In fact , it's exactly like that because the CIA already did it. In the 80s they sabotaged a Soviet pipeline by placing virus in computer systems that the Soviets bought circumventing embargo on such exports at the time.
Well, you would understand that with enemies...with allies is very shitty to be honest. And is not comparable. Spying results is not shared to the public so the public can't raise eyebrows. Putting a bomb to a infrastructure that delivers cheap gas to an entire nation (and rest of europe) will ask for an investigation to find the culprit. . But yeah, I am splitting hairs
On your comment, I disagree that they are not allies. They are part of the OTAN, they share intel, they have similar western values, geopolitical orientation and a massive trade relationship. But obviously, the anglosphere (US, IRE, UK, AUS, NZ, CAN) are tighter allies for obvious, cultural, language, family connections and historical reasons