Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

exactly, and threatening this flip side is what actually prevents large scale wars.
The west never should have backed down the way it did beforehand. Some say we've become so weak because of china and russia, but military speaking, we are not. We should send an immediate western threat to show that the behavior is not to be tolerated and can lead to actual war. So far, Putin knows he can do whatever he wants, because he knows there will be no repercussion, but that's the tragedy. If he at least feared it could by a small percentage result in a military involvement of the NATO allies, this would not be possible. Thing is, and it's a dreadful thought imo, but where will Putin stop now that he can freely operate? When the annexion of Krim happened, appeasement was our reaction. Now that the ukraine is getting invaded, we don't react either. Maybe it is time to see historical parallels to other cases of appeasement politics and where it led to. Because he won't stop there. It might just mark the beginning of further russian expansion and while it might be true that the west is on decline, it's still strong and a sleeping giant.
I say: send the reaction, threaten a total escalation and it won't come to that. It's the thought that it might come to that, that could prevent this.

China will more than likely tell him to pull his head in real quick or be removed if it senses he’s getting out of control.

They’re not interested in all out war. Nobody is. This is little Vladdy trying to show Russia’s strength to the rest of the world and it’s sad this is occurring.
 
As hopeless as it currently seems. Zelensky still in control and not already assassinated is great news.
 
So you allow Putin to do what he likes then?

sanctions aren't going to do anything, Russia will just cut oil and gas which the west relies too much upon.

The UK set a precedent only a few years ago with the skripal poisoning. They did nothing and have allowed Russia to interfere in our electoral processes, allow billions of dodgy money into our economy and housing market.

Putin may as well be the world leader for all the failure and weakness the west has been exhibiting over the past decade. Who knows, this could embolden him to do a Hitler.
I’m sorry, but in the modern, nuclear world, defeating a major power economically is exactly the way to go. Your gung-ho rah rah message isn’t the way the world works anymore. That ended in 1945.
 
I’m sorry, but in the modern, nuclear world, defeating a major power economically is exactly the way to go. Your gung-ho rah rah message isn’t the way the world works anymore. That ended in 1945.

How is that even possible in a globalized economy?
 
I’m sorry, but in the modern, nuclear world, defeating a major power economically is exactly the way to go. Your gung-ho rah rah message isn’t the way the world works anymore. That ended in 1945.

Economic sanctions do a have a limit, at which point you do have to go to war. Not in the conventional sense, but there are actions that can be taken that don't involve conventional weapons or WMDs.
 
Economic sanctions do a have a limit, at which point you do have to go to war. Not in the conventional sense, but there are actions that can be taken that don't involve conventional weapons or WMDs.

Care to elaborate? What can be done against an enemy that is already using its own conventional weapons?
 
I know. But say you wanted to rein in say China. How do you sanction them effectively without hurting yourself just as badly?
If “you” = the US… we can’t.

It’s why I don’t worry about Russia taking the mantle of world superpower from the US.
 
Threaten total escalation over a country that isn’t even a member of NATO?

That’s just not how any of this works.

Why should the fact a country is not in NATO means you stand by and watch it happen?

Never mind putin will probably test that resolve soon enough and you'll see the west won't do a thing.
 
Threaten total escalation over a country that isn’t even a member of NATO?

That’s just not how any of this works.

Thing is, we allow this to happen and rather sooner than later, the dysbalance in power will lead to a cold war anyways. It's just the beginning. I'm not saying we should go to war, but there needs to be the believable possibility of it happening. The west has become so, so soft. No one left that Putin respects or even takes seriously.

China will more than likely tell him to pull his head in real quick or be removed if it senses he’s getting out of control.

They’re not interested in all out war. Nobody is. This is little Vladdy trying to show Russia’s strength to the rest of the world and it’s sad this is occurring.

Isn't there intel that moldavia is hit now? "Trying" to show russia's strength? He kind of is showing the ability to annex neighbours without any repercussions and he will succeed at that. It's not a flex, it's actually happening.

Economic sanctions do a have a limit, at which point you do have to go to war. Not in the conventional sense, but there are actions that can be taken that don't involve conventional weapons or WMDs.

I too think the west should start acting.
 
Feck me, Joe. Just order the Sixth Fleet to enter the Black Sea and make sure no Russian ship gets through already.
You’re risking a situation similar to the US blockade of Cuba in 1962. Closest we’ve come to nuclear war.
 
I don't understand the position of some here who say they're very upset because blood is being shed and their solution is that NATO intervenes and start world war 3.
 
Russian forces have unleashed an attack of Ukraine on the orders of Vladimir Putin, who announced a “special military operation” at dawn, amid warnings from world leaders that it could spark the biggest war in Europe since 1945.

Within minutes of Putin’s short televised address, at about 5am Ukrainian time, explosions were heard near major Ukrainian cities, including the capital Kyiv.

The scope of the Russian attack appears to be massive. Ukraine’s interior ministry reported that the country was under attack from cruise and ballistic missiles, with Russia appearing to target infrastructure near major cities such as Kyiv, Kharkiv, Mariupol and Dnipro.

Explosions from artillery rockets lit up the night sky as shelling began near Mariupol, video showed. A senior adviser to Ukraine’s interior ministry said that it appeared Russian troops may soon move on Kharkiv, which is about 20 miles from the border. Locals in Kyiv sought safety in bomb shelters as explosions were heard outside the city.

“Putin has just launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine,” said Ukrainian foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba. “Peaceful Ukrainian cities are under strikes. This is a war of aggression. Ukraine will defend itself and will win. The world can and must stop Putin. The time to act is now.”

In a bid to justify the attack, Putin claimed “A hostile anti-Russia is being created on our historic lands.”

“We have taken the decision to conduct a special military operation,” he said, in what amounted to a declaration of war. He claimed it was for the “demilitarisation and denazification” of Ukraine, echoing a theme of Kremlin propaganda, the false claim that the Kyiv government is controlled by the far right.

“We do not intend to occupy Ukraine,” he said, and he had a chilling warning for other nations.

“To anyone who would consider interfering from the outside: if you do, you will face consequences greater than any you have faced in history. All relevant decisions have been taken. I hope you hear me,” he said.

As Putin was speaking and the first detonations were being reported, the UN security council was holding an emergency session, chaired by Russia itself, which holds the rotating presidency. It was begun by the UN secretary general, António Guterres, who made a direct appeal: “President Putin – stop your troops from attacking Ukraine. Give peace a chance. Too many people have already died.”

Joe Biden issued a written statement saying: “The prayers of the entire world are with the people of Ukraine tonight as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack by Russian military forces.

“President Putin has chosen a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering,” Biden said. “Russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring, and the United States and its allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way. The world will hold Russia accountable.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ews-vladimir-putin-zelenskiy-russian-invasion
 
I don't understand the position of some here who say they're very upset because blood is being shed and their solution is that NATO intervenes and start world war 3.

This. I don't think some people can quite comprehend the true meaning of global thermonuclear armageddon.
 
This. I don't think some people can quite comprehend the true meaning of global thermonuclear armageddon.

I don't think anybody here wants an actual thermonuclear armageddon - we are in favor of the threat of it happening, as this was what prevented large scale wars..
 
Is Western Ukraine being targeted?

Southwestern Ukraine is, since that is where Odessa is located. There have been explosions there over night.

I think Putin is planning on taking Novorossiya + Kharkiv, which would stretch from Kharkiv to Odessa and everything south of Dnieprpetrovsk. Then create a frozen conflict in northern Ukraine just as he did in Donbas over the past 8 years, so he can control Kiev without the burden of having to occupy it.
 
I don't think anybody here wants an actual thermonuclear armageddon - we are in favor of the threat of it happening, as this was what prevented large scale wars..

Exactly, Putin is making the threat and people are so weak it's like okay Vlad, anything you say, would you like fries with that.

Pathetically weak and this is why the likes of Putin exist. We need stronger aggressive leaders in the west, we have become so weak. An old senile president and a clown in the UK, it's no wonder Putin knows he can do what he pleases.