Rugby World Cup 2015 | Reminiscing Thread

[rimaldo]

The game was there to be won by England, they showed themselves as the better all round team (injuries helped) but lacked teeth. After the last two injury subs they took it for granted I thought, whilst Wales were galvanised.

Delighted for Wales! They're a momentum team and this will do it for them, but the mounting injuries and lack of top quality will see them out before the business end. A semi would be a great achievement.

England should have put them to the sword though, comfortably.

agreed. biggest game of the world cup so far and a great win for wales, don't think it will have any bearing on the whole thing though.

 

[K2K]

i agree, we're not a bad side, being above average doesn't make you the best though and it's a long way back from that performance. it's not raising your game by 5% to win the whole thing, we'd need to be 150% better and i'm not sure that performance will come this time next week.

Put it this way, if NZ are knocked out, then you are as good as any side left, with home advantage.

Its possible to pull an "Chelsea 2012"at this world cup I feel. You dont need to be the best to win a world cup, just some luck at BMT when it counts.

 

[Mojo_]

Never been into rugby so genuine question, what makes New-Zealand so good in rugby when considering their population? I know it's their most favorite sport but are there any other notable factors?

They are what brazil are (were) to the football world.

 

[K2K]

 

[Mojo_]

Dan Biggar is fast becoming the best No 10 in the world

 

[rednev]

To caricature, it's a mix of better genes, better skills coach and better rugby culture.

I don't think it's genes. There are very few Maori/Islander players in the NZ set up....most of the gene pool comes from the British Isles.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't think it's genes. There are very few Maori/Islander players in the NZ set up....most of the gene pool comes from the British Isles.

Why would you reduce it to Maori/Islander?

 

[rednev]

Why would you reduce it to Maori/Islander?

People often talk about Maori/Pacific Islander genetics being perfect for rugby so I thought that was what you were referring to. So if not the Maori/islander influence on the genes, what is it that makes NZ so genetically distinct from the European nations?

 

[JPRouve]

People often talk about Maori/Pacific Islander genetics being perfect for rugby so I thought that was what you were referring to. So if not the Maori/islander influence on the genes, what is it that makes NZ so genetically distinct from the European nations?

They are not different but it's the concentration that makes the difference, the immigrant were probably athletic individuals for a large part. And By the way, Messam, Kaino, Savea, Milner-Skudder, Sonny Bill-Williams, Aaron Smith, Mealamu, Nonu, Fekitoa, Kerr Barlow, Perenara, Vito and others are all maori or islanders decent.

 

[steve zizou]

I don't think it's genes. There are very few Maori/Islander players in the NZ set up....most of the gene pool comes from the British Isles.

What? There are loads of them(maori/islanders) in the current team!

 

[Tarrou]

Never been into rugby so genuine question, what makes New-Zealand so good in rugby when considering their population? I know it's their most favorite sport but are there any other notable factors?

twice as big and twice as fast

 

[Stack]

Never been into rugby so genuine question, what makes New-Zealand so good in rugby when considering their population? I know it's their most favorite sport but are there any other notable factors?

It comes back to coaching systems, NZ are ahead of every other nation in Rugby when it comes to coaching systems. When the game turned professional the big fear in NZ was that teams such as England for example with a bigger playing pool and ability to have a well apid pro competition would overtake NZ. So the NZRU embarked on some very serious and long term studies of sport coaching. They had a long look at American sports and how for so long they had been studying and working through sports science, coaching methods and leadership building.
When rugby started to deal with issues of the rise of football as a sport for kids and the problems of physical development differences between Island and European people rugby brought in ripper rugby. The younger age groups started by playing without tackling and by using velcro strips on waist belts instead of tackling. The anti PC brigade were not happy but didnt realise one of the key things about keeping kids in sport and building long term is to make sport fun for the little ones. So the point of that bit was more to illustrate the ability of Rugby in NZ to innovate and adapt to developing problems.
History and tradition in all sport have a big impact. Rugby is traditionally at school level a massive part of NZ sporting life. So its part of the culture and thus its easier to keep the train rolling. Football in NZ has grown considerably in the last 30 years however NZ football is still a massive way off being as good as what happens in England despite improvements in coaching methods etc, history and traditions add layers to a sports ability to be successful. If a major football country decided to divert all its resources into becoming great at baseball it would probably take 50-100 years to do that, its got to become part of the fabric of a society to succeed.
Another factor is the increase in Pacific Island players in NZ. Back in the 60's and 70's successive govts in NZ made it easier for Pacific Islanders to move to NZ to fill the gap for unskilled labour and through that NZ ended up with a pool of players that loved Rugby as a sport and were very community based in their culture. A massive bonus for NZ Rugby and NZ as a country long term. Add the Pacific Island community to the Maori community and its a win win situation.

 

[Stack]

To caricature, it's a mix of better genes, better skills coach and better rugby culture.

The gene pool with respect to more Pacific Island players has an impact in that the Pacific Island and Maori kids (a generalisation I know) tend to mature earlier than European kids, however the big impact I believe from Maori and Pacific Island players comes from their community which is one which loves community activities and family based lifestyle. Its very inclusive so when it comes to Rugby it fits their sense of fun and involvement. Friendly, welcoming and always looking to do something as a group where they can laugh and compete.

 

[diarm]

I just think Eng are quite decent..it would be a close game..and past history does seem to affect teams for some reason..look at the SA cricket team..years of underachievement gets to you.

England will learn from this I feel.They might not win the tournament, but they will recover.

Can't see it. England have a good back 3, good half backs and a decent set of locks. That's not enough I don't think when your front row is average and your back row is poor. I just can't see how a side with Wood and Robshaw in their back row is going to beat that Aussie team with Pocock and Hooper. Today was the match England had to win and then they could have beaten a poor Boks side to make a semi final. But to lose against a Welsh side that didn't do much and were riddled with injuries? That's curtains I reckon.

 

[JPRouve]

The gene pool with respect to more Pacific Island players has an impact in that the Pacific Island and Maori kids (a generalisation I know) tend to mature earlier than European kids, however the big impact I believe from Maori and Pacific Island players comes from their community which is one which loves community activities and family based lifestyle. Its very inclusive so when it comes to Rugby it fits their sense of fun and involvement. Friendly, welcoming and always looking to do something as a group where they can laugh and compete.

I agree and that's what I had in mind when I mentioned a "better rugby culture".

 

[K2K]

Can't see it. England have a good back 3, good half backs and a decent set of locks. That's not enough I don't think when your front row is average and your back row is poor. I just can't see how a side with Wood and Robshaw in their back row is going to beat that Aussie team with Pocock and Hooper. Today was the match England had to win and then they could have beaten a poor Boks side to make a semi final. But to lose against a Welsh side that didn't do much and were riddled with injuries? That's curtains I reckon.

I agree that this Eng side isnt the greatest..but my point is that no one really is in this point..that struggling Bok side gave NZ and Aus a great game just a few months ago until they faded in the last 10 min..no result is a given, Yes England should have won , but they will learn from this. It would be very foolish for Aus to underestimate them.

 

[Tincanalley]

agreed. biggest game of the world cup so far and a great win for wales, don't think it will have any bearing on the whole thing though.

Well it is bound to have a bearing; it changes the dynamic of the Australia/England game, and may well affect the positions in the final qualifying table, surely?

 

[Keenst]

It's been a great WC so far.

 

[Scarecrow]

Would I be right if I suggest that Australia, England, Wales and Ireland are more or less on the same level and are the four best teams behind NZ? That's what I got from the World Rugby Rankings. I suppose they're more credible than the football equivalent?

 

[colinhaigh]

Would I be right if I suggest that Australia, England, Wales and Ireland are more or less on the same level and are the four best teams behind NZ? That's what I got from the World Rugby Rankings. I suppose they're more credible than the football equivalent?

More or less right, South Africa and France are also right up there.

 

[K2K]

Would I be right if I suggest that Australia, England, Wales and Ireland are more or less on the same level and are the four best teams behind NZ? That's what I got from the World Rugby Rankings. I suppose they're more credible than the football equivalent?

SA were second just a few months ago though, losing to Japan and Argentina that are lower in the rankings cost them a lot of ranking points...Australia are perhaps a step above the rest right now, and the isnt much between the rest.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

BOOM! Some of these American hits...

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Scotland are in a real match here. It'll be very interesting to see if there are fatigue effects from playing midweek. Very impressed with USA today

 

[K2K]

Third time in his career than his world cup has been ended by injury.

As he was retiring after the world cup, that is also the end of his international career.

Jan Serfontein called up as replacement.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Squad rotation not an option for the Scots today, those changes have turned the match

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Ireland time... all I want is no injuries. Fingers crossed for getting a lot of the squad involved with no injuries.

 

[Crackers]

Fantastic piece of play by Zebo there to get past a man, unlucky that his foot was in touch.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Ireland offloading loads

 

[Tincanalley]

Ireland making it look hard work in the last 10 mins. Need a couple more tries when they tire in the second half. USA were excellent in the first half against Scotland.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

One more try and keep everyone healthy and that's job done

 

[unchanged_lineup]

So long as Rob Kearney is ok, that's job done and done. Interesting to see them offload so much more, not always succesfully, but it made for an exciting style of game. Madigan did pretty well with his kicks, although there was hardly huge pressure on them in this fixture.

 

[diarm]

God but Eoin Reddan is such a frustrating scrum half to watch. He cost us 30 points today with total lack of control, poor decisions and wrong pass selection all game long. So annoying when a pack is dominant like ours was, especially in the first half, but the 9 just shovels everything wide without using his impact runners to punch holes first.

Good performances from Strauss, Henry, Heaslip, Earls, Bowe and Zebo though. Kearney did well when he came on as well. There is serious competition for spots in our back 3.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

God but Eoin Reddan is such a frustrating scrum half to watch. He cost us 30 points today with total lack of control, poor decisions and wrong pass selection all game long. So annoying when a pack is dominant like ours was, especially in the first half, but the 9 just shovels everything wide without using his impact runners to punch holes first.

Good performances from Strauss, Henry, Heaslip, Earls, Bowe and Zebo though. Kearney did well when he came on as well. There is serious competition for spots in our back 3.

Do you think any part of that is keeping things under wraps? We probably haven't seen the team as it's meant to be yet and may not til the France match. There's probably a lot of gamesmanship/coachmanship still at this stage to keep the powder dry.

 

[diarm]

From a couple of the interviews from players on the fringes of the squad, I think there's been a fair bit of keeping our powder dry, both in the 6 nations and the warm ups. Especially in terms of backs play and offloading.

But if Reddan is keeping things under wraps he's been doing so for 15 years at this stage and would want give us the big reveal fairly sharpish. He's a good 9 at club level but has been consistently found wanting at international level throughout his career. He's been very fortunate that in Ireland, we tend to start and stick with one 9 so he's always floated along as a sub, despite never threatening the number one. If we were brutally honest this year, even though their best days are well behind them, both Stringer and O'Leary would have been better options as back up than Reddan. I would also have picked Marmion ahead of him. The Connacht man wasn't great against the Saxons when he got his chance but he's young, and isn't any worse than Reddan.

 

[rednev]

Wales have now moved up to 2nd in the world rankings. Sounds about right.

Now to get that top 5 spot in the football rankings.

 

[Steve the Red]

They are what brazil are (were) to the football world.

Brazil in football are nowhere near as good as NZ in rugby. Brazil has over 200 million people, NZ 4.5 million. Brazil's biggest rivalry, with Argentina, is 39 games won, 37 lost. NZ's with South Africa is 52 games won, 35 lost. NZ have only ever lost to 6 nations. Brazil have lost to 36 nations, including a losing record against such powerhouses as Norway, Hungary and the Netherlands. Brazil's winning % against all nations is 63.13%, NZ's is 76.55%

 

[Zen]

I dunno, Brazil 58-82 is very very New Zealand esque....the Italy 3-2 victory in 1982 is as "classic" as any NZ World Cup losses. I'm not sure we'll ever see NZ become more ordinary(as kind as I can put it) like Brazil have in terms of being the leading nation, the growth in union has been decent, but nothing amazing, it's the same core of nations, just the second tier nations are now capable of winning against the bottom top tier teams......Japan vs SA was a massive anomaly aside.

 

[K2K]

Wales have now moved up to 2nd in the world rankings. Sounds about right.

Now to get that top 5 spot in the football rankings.

Think you'll beat the Aussies? dont have the greatest record against them

 

[Steve the Red]

I dunno, Brazil 58-82 is very very New Zealand esque....the Italy 3-2 victory in 1982 is as "classic" as any NZ World Cup losses. I'm not sure we'll ever see NZ become more ordinary(as kind as I can put it) like Brazil have in terms of being the leading nation, the growth in union has been decent, but nothing amazing, it's the same core of nations, just the second tier nations are now capable of winning against the bottom top tier teams......Japan vs SA was a massive anomaly aside.

Yes rugby has a smaller core. Only 4 teams won the first 7 FIFA WCs, just like in rugby. Of those seven, Brazil only won 2, like NZ in rugby. Brazil's loss in the 1950 final at home was seen as a national tragedy. And that is probably surpassed by their 7-1 loss to Germany in 2014. Only six countries before 1998 had won the FIFA. There are probably 6 countries (NZ, Aus, SA, Eng, Fra, Ire) who have a good chance of winning RWC 2015.

 

[Xaviesta]

I'm worried England will beat Australia this weekend. I fear Romain Poite will have pre conceived ideas about Australia's scrum despite the improvements made in this area. Also, Poite and his assistants must have their eyes on Joe Marler to make sure he's driving square and straight, bot boring in like last weekend.

Also, England have everything to lose on Saturday, Australia will have next week vs Wales. An ambush beckons if AUS aren't on their game.