This is the way
Ruben Amorim | United meet Sporting release clause
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This is the way
Better than 14th yeah that's a given. I think you could have left Ruud in charge and got better than 14th. Top 4 isn't as simple though, I'd be happy with us keeping pace and matching the top 4 points totals from now to the end of the season. To claw it back from where we are to overtaking them seems a stretch though, all whilst implementing a completely new system that is going to have teething problems given no one in the squad has ever played in a 343 before.
2 and a half years? It's the perfect length for a modern day manager.
Congratulations, hope it goes well
Is that not contradictory? You're saying "we should expect" to qualify for the CL, which basically paints anything less than that as failure, but then immediately following that up by acknowledging that it might not happen.
Personally, I think Arsenal and Villa have looked a bit off the pace this season, both dropping points unexpectedly. The latter in particular you'd expect to drop off. Seven points isn't insurmountable at this point of the season. However, we've also got to hope Spurs and Chelsea can't keep the pace, and there are no other surprise challengers in the way Villa were last season.
We all obviously want to see improvements, and we definitely need to be finishing higher in the league than we currently sit (I expect top 7 as a worst case, looking at everyone else), but the most important thing is that we start putting the building blocks in place and start looking like we know what we're doing. Results might well be a bit Jekyll and Hyde, as they were when Klopp first took over at Liverpool.
To be honest it will depend a lot on the players attitude.
In the last game (league Cup) against a weak opponent, it was clear they were a bit nervous and the general atmosphere in the stadium was... weird.
This evening we´ll have another match at home and - with everything more clarified - we´ll see how it goes.
I was confident 2 weeks ago that we could beat city at home, but now... either the players want to say goodbye with an excellent performance - and the macth will be interesting - or they don´t and it will be a disaster.
So I don´t think it will be a good test for Amorim. More for the players than for the manager
The only given is that City will be there or thereabouts at the end of the season (unless they get a hefty deduction), Slot is still in the honeymoon period, the wheels may or may not come off at some point and Arsenal are struggling a bit but will probably still be fighting top 2-3..... however we are only 7 points behind Arsenal in 3rd and Villa in 4th, only 9 games played, and there are big question marks over Villa, Chelsea, Spurs, Brighton and Newcastle, all will drop points.... I am not getting over excited, or expecting league winning form from us under Amorim, but 4th or even 3rd is still well within reach, we could easily be top 4 by Xmas with a good run of results
If I was to predict right now before Amorim has even dipped his big toe into the role, I would predict it will be a tight battle for 4th between us, Chelsea and Villa, I reckon Chelsea 4, us 5 and Villa 6, but it will be down to the wire
He seems to be the kind of manager who will work with whatever hes got than to be a purist to implement his "philosophy". Ive always thought the club need a manager like that.
I don’t think it’s a big question at all, he will get time. Apart from Moyes, every United manager has got plenty of time. We barely sack managers prematurely.
Most fans have already said, this season get us CL, either EL win or top 4. Even if he doesn’t, its not a big deal as long as we see massive improvement and a style of play.
I don’t mind him starting a bit more conservative, I think a lot of us fans would like to see us solid, difficult to play against then look at improving our attack.
When people say it takes time, it really doesn’t. We have seen in the last few years, Emry, Ange, Slot even Alonso has shown it doesn’t take a year, a few months is enough to show something.
Please drop subtle references to the caf
I feel like the fans will. United fans have actually been pretty patient with all their managers since SAF retired, sometimes to a fault. There's a very vocal core of reactionary fans online (mostly on twitter, but a fair few on this forum now as well) that feel it's more important to be right than try to support the players and the manager, who will no doubt start busting out the memes as soon as the first wobble under Amorim hits.
His biggest problem will be the media though. United are always big news. In many ways their last decade of under performance has completely overshadowed City's decade of domination. Negativity breeds interaction, from both United fans and those who enjoy seeing them languish. Just look at the comments from Souness today. Unfortunately, a lot of fans get swept up in this as well when things are going badly, and only add to the pressure on the team.
I think one of EtH's biggest problems was that he was completely swallowed by this in the end. SAF gets a lot of revisionary criticism now for being authoritarian with journalists 'just doing their jobs', but that job was often to extract a comment or sound bite that fit a story they already wanted to write because they knew it would sell papers. It's become far too easy for the media to pick at United's carcass now, and this must affect the players you'd think. They aren't shielded from this like they used to be. The best way to do that is to be successful, obviously, but when you aren't at that stage you need your manager to create a siege mentality from something else.
I think Amorim will get time, but it's not going to be smooth. He'll need to ride those moments out a lot better than EtH did. I think if we see some kind of progress and identity emerge, like when Klopp first went to Liverpool but they still struggled, then he might just get the time he needs. Get the players we have performing better, continue to develop Mainoo and Garnacho, integrate more youth where possible. The thing is, EtH did all this at first, but it peaked in around February of the first season, then we lost 7-0 to Liverpool... injuries derailed the season, but in truth it was the first sign EtH couldn't find answers when he needed them.
Amorim will need to show he can overcome setbacks better than that.
The inherited team is different here. Amorin will have a very good squad to chose from, I know people seem to think this squads rubbish but with a proper coach, we can show something. We may not go on title form but last 5/6 season, you dont need to be super consistent to get top 4.
We just have to hope that during sometime this season Amorin can put together 6/7 wins straight, that gets you into top 4 shout straight away.
Especially, if you start taking points of Villa, Spurs, Chelsea, Brighton and those teams. Its like this sundays game, its so important for Amorin's sake that we dont lose this game.
Coming in 9 points off Chelsea would be a complete different scenario coming 3/5 point. He has everything to play for, 3 cup competitions and top 4.
Proud of you Bro!
Why do people keep saying this?
We haven't got a left-back, and we haven't got anything remotely resembling a senior striker. The goalkeeper might also be a bit iffy and our midfield still regularly finds itself relying on Eriksen and/or Casemiro.
We've got a decent squad with a lot of potential, but it's by no means the finished article.
Genuine question.
Had Berrada been in place before EtH's contract was extending, anyone else think EtH would have gone and we'd have got this guy in the summer?
By all accounts this is a push from Berrada with his City knowledge of him and he was available.
Had Berrada been in place before EtH's contract was extending, anyone else think EtH would have gone and we'd have got this guy in the summer?
By all accounts this is a push from Berrada with his City knowledge of him and he was available.
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Absolutely nobody is saying this squad is the finished article.
Absolutely. When you delve into the totality of his time at Sporting, whilst the formation has remained the same, the profiles of players in those roles has changed. He initially had a fluid front three then when Gyökeres arrived, adjusted to play a target man as the spearhead. He initially began with traditional wingbacks then moved to wingers.
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Another point on Conte - he didn't even play that system for the entire season but switched to it during a defeat to Arsenal from memory and stuck with it. I can't see our formation change being so seamless but I am sure he will stick with it.
Did I say its the finished article?
"We haven't got a left back" Well we do have 2.. Shaw and Malacia, they are injured. We have Hojlund as a striker and a backup in Zirkzee, whilst Rashford has played there alot.
Just because the previous manager used Eriksen, doesn't mean we dont have Mainoo, Ugarte ?
I said its a very good squad, which is completely different to what Klopp walked into.
We have 2 competent RB's, 6 CB's, CM's, attacking mids, wingers, so I am not sure why you are arguing its not a good squad.
The left back position has been a huge problem for a while, but perhaps doesn`t have to be a big issue if Amorim comes in a plays a quite attacking 3-4-3 setup.
I think decent sells us short. Disappointed as we are right now, there are still not many clubs with stronger squads than we have.
He plays with wingers as the wing backs so we don’t need a left back in his system. The goalkeeper is now very good and is good enough on the ball for his style. We don’t have a senior striker, but Højlund fits his style very well as an out and out striker and will be fed the ball a lot more. The base of our midfield is thin with Kobbie and Ugarte being the two and Case and Eriksen being backups, but Case seems to be rolling back the years again and will be offered a lot more protection in this system.
I think people talk about our squad as if it’s shit but it’s actually full of talent that were just asked to play suicide football.
I agree with bolded exactly, if it gets us top 4, that's amazing, if it gets us to go deep in EL or even win it to get a CL spot, fantastic, if not, at least we can say Amorim did his best and the team was winning consistently but the bad start affected us, it is a tough ask on Amirom and the team but there has to be high expectations and standards and accountibility from all.
Yep I've been saying this for months. Berrada and Ashworth's comments prior to the Liverpool game were telling, they both distanced themselves from the decision to trigger the option on ten Hag's contract. If everything was in place I'm convinced they would've followed through with the decision to sack him.
Because we have, we have many players to choose from to build a complete new formation the team has never used before. In the past 10 years, it's been mostly 4-2-3-1 with a very small variety of 3-5-2 on occasion. On paper we have plenty of options to fit into that, now it's the managerial setup's work to see who fits where most.
I literally said it was a decent squad. It's not "a very good squad" though, which is what you claimed.
Shaw and Malacia are injured, so we don't have a left-back.
Are Hojlund and Zirkzee senior strikers? No. Rashford is done. He scores at a worse rate than John Hartson managed. He's just not the man, and we will never be able to rely on him to lead the line. As I said, we have no senior striker.
Klopp took Liverpool from 8th to 8th in his first season, in a year that saw Leicester win the league on 81 points, while City had the lowest points total to finish top four since Everton finished there over a decade prior, and Chelsea finished 10th. He also inherited a squad that contained Coutinho, Henderson, Milner and Firmino (and Gomez, but he was injured).
There aren't many with stronger squads than us, but there are at least three (City, Arsenal and Liverpool), and then there's probably a similar number with similarly strong squads (Chelsea, Spurs, Villa). As I said, worst case, top seven, but we still stand a decent chance at top four if we can put some good results together.
I'm not talking about our squad like it's shit though. I literally said it's decent, I just don't think it's "very good" which is what was claimed.
Too early to say for Onana yet. He could well end up chucking one in again soon. I like Hojlund, but he's yet to have a season close to "prolific", and we have no idea how wingers as wing-backs will turn out, especially as (to my knowledge) Amad and Antony are our only natural left-footers currently available.
I also said I think we're good enough for top four (I would even still argue top three, if Arsenal drop off even more), but if Arsenal, Villa, Chelsea and Spurs all keep ticking over, we're probably looking at seventh, simply because we've left ourselves with a bit of catching up to do.
They 100% backed him with a but attached.
You are right, it is indeed contradictory and I worded it wrongly, it should say (we should try for top 4), my point was the team should go for top 4 and play to win all games to get close to the top 4, we do not know how the other teams will perform but our team should at least go for it, start putting points on the board immediately and see what happens, we could end up 7th or 3rd depending on what happens in the league but I still want to see wins and points in the league as well as improvement in the performances, and I disagree with the last part, Klopp took over a terrible Liverpool team, this team has far more better players overall, and should be doing a lot better.
We don't, and people who think we do have their heads in the sand, or have a very generous definition of what constitutes "very good".
If we have a "very good" squad, what do City have? What to Arsenal and Liverpool have? Hell, what do Chelsea and Spurs (and Villa) have?
I said we have a decent squad with a lot of potential. That may well turn into a very good squad with a couple more key additions and some of our younger players reaching their potential, but it's not there yet.
Watch him turn dalot into a player that racks up 15+ g/a a season. Be interesting to see if he’s tempted to play Garnacho/Antony in the LWB role with freedom to attack.
So we do have LB's.. we don't means there is none at the club.
The reason we have gone for a younger coach is because he can improve younger players. Hojlund is a senior striker in our squad. In the PL, how many clubs have a senior striker? and what do you need to do to classify as one? Be 25+ and score 15+ goals a season?
Arsenal, Liverpool both challenging without a "senior" striker.
Klopp took Liverpool to a EL final in his first season with a defined style of play. Oh I love how you mention Firmino but was he a senior striker then?
So he took over a squad, where you have named 4 players, 3 of them were average when he took over. He is taking over a squad with Mazroui, Dalot, De Ligt, Lisandro, Yoro, Maguire, Casemiro, Ugarte, Bruno, Amad, Garnacho, Hojlund, Mount, Mainoo.
There is a massive difference between this squad and Liverpools squad Klopp took over.
Thank you! Always admire your club and I hope it works well for both sides.
You overvalue our squad. At best, we have probably the 5th best squad in the league. That’s a problem. Just qualifying for Europe will mean Amorim needs to squeeze more from the squad than their talent level or hope one of the better teams falters.
Our defense is good, not great. Our midfield is rapidly aging out and needs addressing. And our frontline is full of unknowns that have so far shown their only consistent trait is the inability to score.
For Amorim to be successful, we not only need for him to be great but we need our recruitment to be incredible for a couple of windows to close the talent gap on the top 4. This past summer was a good start as long as the Yoro and Ugarte turn out to be decent. But we have a long way to go.
You undervalue our squad... That is what a coaches job is though, squeeze the best from the squad.
I have not said its a great squad, its a very good one though. Our defence is good, you talk about a rapidly aging midfield? Mainoo is ageing? Ugarte is ageing? Mount is ageing? Our oldest midfielder is 32... and you are talking about it being an aged midfield?
Our front line has issues but its got talent in there.. Amad, Garnacho, Rashford, Hojlund are all there, they just need a coach to allow them to get into positions to score.
If you think the consistent, go have a look at Hojlund's conversion rate since he has been here compare to every other ST in the PL.
Joao says it better here, but complex systems take time to see the results. Sure he'll get us playing better, and the style should emerge and results come from that. But to expect to get 8 more points than teams that are already performing well now is a stretch. And it could even be more by the time he joins us.
Are you being deliberately pedantic?
We literally have no idea when, or even if Malacia will be available for selection again, or indeed what sort of level he'll be at if he makes a return. We barely have an idea of when Shaw will be fit. He's not played for us since March or something, and recently suffered another "setback". For all intents and purposes, we have no left-back.
Senior striker = someone who can be relied on for goals, obviously. Saka has scored 15+ in the league for Arsenal two seasons on the bounce, and Havertz seems to have stepped up on that front too. Liverpool have Salah. Our top scorer(s) last season barely made double figures.
Who do we have that can reliably hit 15 goals in the league? Rashford's managed it twice in his entire career. Hojlund's never managed it. We don't have anyone who we can currently consider the player leading our line.
The point wasn't that Firmino was Klopp's senior striker (or line leader/main source of goals/whatever). The point was that Klopp didn't inherit a squad entirely full of shit. I'd agree our current squad is better than Liverpool squad he inherited, but he also inherited a squad in a piss-weak league. We've got a decent squad, but so have a number of other clubs these days. If we're going like for like, did Klopp inherit a squad worse than those of West Ham and Southampton (and Leicester) in 2015/16? Because he finished behind all of them.
I literally said we don't have "a very good squad" but that it's still decent. If we have a "very good" squad, how would you describe City's squad? Or the squads of any of the other sides that finished ahead of us last year?
We've missed the most "big" chances in the league this season.
We don't have an issue with getting into positions to score. The issue is that we don't have a player that can reliably find the back of the net when presented with the opportunity to do so. Hopefully that player can be Hojlund if he can stay fit, but his best return in the league is currently 10 goals.
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It’s so incredibly disingenuous or pedantic to say Arsenal and Liverpool are challenging without a senior striker especially given Salah is one of the best goalscoring wide forwards the PL has seen and Saka is already considered by many to be a top class attacking player too. Clubs will have a top class attacking threat that is unquestionably one of the best in the league. City has Haaland, Arsenal has Saka and Liverpool has Salah. Who is ours?
You’re also being pointlessly pedantic about LBs. When is the last time we played a natural LB in that position? We haven’t had one available at all this season and for the majority of last season too so you’re being needlessly obtuse about it.
So we have issues at LB? we have a RB who can play LB and hired a manager who plays wingers as wingbacks. We have no fit LB, is correct.
Oh really, which 2 seasons has Saka hit 15+ PL goals ? In fact Saka has only ever hit 15+ PL goals once in his career. Has Havertz ever managed 15 PL goals?
So the lack of goals, has nothing to do with system or manager, purely down to lack of quality in our forwards right? A good coach wouldn't be able to get more out our squad?
So in the whole league you can only name 2 senior forwards ? Because your criteria as detailed in your post is to consistently hit 15+ PL goals, in a league where you can only name 2 players to do that.
City have an elite squad, the rest all have very good squads too, I would describe the others as having better coaches, who can get the best out the players.
Okay, so I am being disingenuous about senior striker, you are doing the same with LB.. when was the last time Arsenal or City played a natural LB in that position?
Liverpool have Salah and City have Haaland okay, Saka has managed to get 15+ PL goals once in his career..
You are acting as if managers system or creativity has no bearing on forwards.. just sign good players and they will come good. I am afraid it doesn't work like that, there is a clear correlation between good system and players doing well.
For example.... Chelsea under a manager with a better system, Jackson is getting goals, same with Watkins. Spurs score goals without a senior ST why? because they have a system that works very well.
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