Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Galactic]

Fh

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

The problem is we need to find the style that works first. Even if the club knows how they want the team to play, they first need to find a coach that can play it, successfully. I think Amorim is the first experiment.

IMO, a particular style is BS. There’s no one specific style. There’s formation or general style. Even that depends so much on the players we have, and the injury situation too.

People are reading too much into it.

 

[#07]

Yep, Ten Hag was very compatible with the squad too.. this squad is not compatible with playing at the highest level, nothing to do with Amorim or anyone else.

The City comment is just silly, they have identified a manager that they think will work. Obviously, you would know who is on the City shortlist, could you enlighten me, who else is on that City shortlist that you know so much about? When they have a manager who has just signed a new deal.

So what, did you want them to come out saying, they dont believe in the manager before a Liverpool game?

I don't but given Omar Berrada was employed in City's structure for a long time, I figure he had some idea. Similarly to how Peter Kenyon probably had a good view of United's interest in Essien and Robben when he went to Chelsea.

Squad compatibility is an admittedly broad concept. However, I think there are some coaches whose general approach would be an easier fit for the group we have than Amorim's. I think there are any number of coaches that could have taken over when we were 6 points off top four and made a better fist of it than he has. Its not like I want him to fail or enjoy us being rubbish but I'm not going to ignore that we haven't recorded back to back league wins since he took over.

As for Berrada's comments, if past behaviour is any indicator of future conduct, don't put too much stock in him publicly backing coaches.

 

[mctrials23]

Yeah that quote stood out to be too. Feels like we've once again gone back to "the coach decides how we play and the rest of the club follows along".

I get the impression that they are not saying that he dictates signings but that he will have a say in the sort of player he wants. i.e players that are technically, physically and mentally strong. I'm sure he will be telling them what positions are key and the sort of player he needs.

Our issue at United is as much about overpaying for average players as it is about having such a mish mash of types. We've been buying average athletes with average technical capabilities for years. You can see that Liverpool have been buying players of different profiles for years. The general core of their recruitment however says that any player that comes in has to be physically very capable and technically very capable. They don't have to be world beaters but they have to have the right mentality and the basics. You can see that arguably two of their most questionable signings for serious money that haven't been big hits don't have that technical quality. Gakpo and Nunez. Even then they have the other qualities and offer something different to the rest of the team.

We have too many slow, ponderous, indecisive and technically deficient players who don't have the right intensity for the league. Replace those players with the right kind and the manager won't matter quite so much.

 

[romufc]

I don't but given Omar Berrada was employed in City's structure for a long time, I figure he had some idea. Similarly to how Peter Kenyon probably had a good view of United's interest in Essien and Robben when he went to Chelsea.

Squad compatibility is an admittedly broad concept. However, I think there are some coaches whose general approach would be an easier fit for the group we have than Amorim's. I think there are any number of coaches that could have taken over when we were 6 points off top four and made a better fist of it than he has. Its not like I want him to fail or enjoy us being rubbish but I'm not going to ignore that we haven't recorded back to back league wins since he took over.

As for Berrada's comments, if past behaviour is any indicator of future conduct, don't put too much stock in him publicly backing coaches.

He would have if City were looking to replace Pep, are they replacing him? Pep has signed a new deal. Also.. if City wanted to get Amorim, they would have because their sporting director is from Sporting.

Its all assumptions that it would be an easier fit... No one can tell me that if we had a manager that played 4 at the back, Onana would make less mistakes, Hojlund would be a better ST. There is actually evidence under Ten Hag that most of the squad was rubbish under any system.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

For me, Amorim has come in and torn up the STYLE book and said we start from here

No more of Sir Alex's ideas hanging over the head like a sword.

We needed to tear up the playbook. Kick the players on their backside and get to work. We have seen players like Rashford fallen because they were too much in comfort zone

I hope this works ,,but this needed to be done to get a fresh start . Instant gratification is not coming soon. You have to be patient and hopefully we will get challenging soon. Till than take every week as it comes Except Europa we have nothing left to play for .

 

[Brand Nubian]

Sir Jim Ratcliffe on Amorim: "Yeah I do, honestly [believe he can succeed]. I really, really like Ruben. He’s a very thoughtful guy. "Every time I go to the training ground, I speak to Ruben. I sit down and have a cup of coffee with him and tell him where it’s going wrong, and he tells me to f**k off. I like him."

Ratcliffe will have watched waaay more games of football in his life than Amorim so its only right he´s trying to give young Ruben advice. Unfortunatelly this stubborn, dogmatic coach is not taking any footballing lessons from Jimmy or Brailsford on board.

 

[Gordon'sHill]

He would have if City were looking to replace Pep, are they replacing him? Pep has signed a new deal. Also.. if City wanted to get Amorim, they would have because their sporting director is from Sporting.

Its all assumptions that it would be an easier fit... No one can tell me that if we had a manager that played 4 at the back, Onana would make less mistakes, Hojlund would be a better ST. There is actually evidence under Ten Hag that most of the squad was rubbish under any system.

Our squad is really poor, that's for sure. But its better than 14th and minus 6 goal difference. ETH was a poor coach whose system didn't work in PL and so he was lost as to what to do. He was also allowed to hire his ex players, many of whom just werent suited to the PL. Its quite possible that Amorim is the same. He has no big league experience (Ashworth reportedly wanted a manager with PL experience). RVN got more joy in his spell with a more traditional approach, playing to strenght of squad. Playing 5 defenders and at least one DM means we will never score much. We also dont have players to create and then exploit the opportunities that Amorim's system requires. Its a mess. But a good manager should be able to get more without another complete rebuild....

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I get the impression that they are not saying that he dictates signings but that he will have a say in the sort of player he wants. i.e players that are technically, physically and mentally strong.

I can't imagine that previous managers wanted technically, physically, and mentally weak players. It's not like they were incompetent.

All players, even the best ones, have strengths and weaknesses in athleticism and technique. The challenge when signing them is figuring out which of those strengths you absolutely need and which of those weaknesses you can live with. That's where the risk of overly rigid systems comes from: they might require giving extra priority to certain strengths, at the expense of ignoring/accepting certain weaknesses.

 

[romufc]

Our squad is really poor, that's for sure. But its better than 14th and minus 6 goal difference. ETH was a poor coach whose system didn't work in PL and so he was lost as to what to do. He was also allowed to hire his ex players, many of whom just werent suited to the PL. Its quite possible that Amorim is the same. He has no big league experience (Ashworth reportedly wanted a manager with PL experience). RVN got more joy in his spell with a more traditional approach, playing to strenght of squad. Playing 5 defenders and at least one DM means we will never score much. We also dont have players to create and then exploit the opportunities that Amorim's system requires. Its a mess. But a good manager should be able to get more without another complete rebuild....

Ofcourse use the small 4 game sample for RVN... I would have thought fans have learnt their lessons. Ole had a bigger sample period when he was interim, got the job on that basis and we saw how good he was.

RVN has got the Leicester job and is probably going to get sacked, so telling me that he is a better coach, when he is probably sacked from his job, is not really comforting.

Its also possible Amorim wont be the same, its a complete different approach. Do you think another manager would get Hojlund to not fall over all the time? or if the manager played 4 at the back, Onana wont make mistakes?

 

[davidmichael]

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

Exactly what I’ve been saying since ETH was fired, I really like Amorim and really hope he’s successful at United BUT we’re yet again pinning all our hopes on a coach leading the way and being successful rather than implementing an actual structure to give continuity and a long term footballing identity that can be implemented from the academies up to the first team.

 

[The Firestarter]

This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.

As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.

I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.

They went to Amorim because he was considered the next best thing, not because his style matched the club's idea of how the team should play. Obviously Ashworth was against this and went through the door before he could arrange the photos on his desk.

 

[NLunited]

Which midfielders would everyone go for to play in midfield two?

They have to be mobile, good on the ball and have great defensive instincts.

These types of players are few and far between if you ask me so I think we have a tough task filling those roles.

Ugarte is one, Bruno is another. There are plenty of midfielders in the PL at smaller teams that are good enough: Wharton and Baleba for example. We can‘t afford them right now.

Our best bet is getting deals and developing from within. Collyer is doing well. There‘s questions about Mainoo‘s athleticism, but he is definitely good enough.

Bruno and Mainoo can also play at 10, but I don‘t agree with the idea that they aren‘t cm‘s.

 

[mctrials23]

I can't imagine that previous managers wanted technically, physically, and mentally weak players. It's not like they were incompetent.

All players, even the best ones, have strengths and weaknesses in athleticism and technique. The challenge when signing them is figuring out which of those strengths you absolutely need and which of those weaknesses you can live with. That's where the risk of overly rigid systems comes from: they might require giving extra priority to certain strengths, at the expense of ignoring/accepting certain weaknesses.

Of course they didn't but thats quite literally what good recruitment looks like. Working out what players will be able to make the move to the PL and its challenges. Why did we obsess over and buy Sancho when he had well known behavioural issues? Why did we give him and Rashford insane contracts when they clearly both had behavioural and attitude issues? Why did we pay £70m for Casemiro at his age when he was never that energetic and would be coming into a much harder league and be surrounded by weaker players and harder opposition?

Our recruitment has been completely incompetent for years. We sign players with massive issues or who are simply not good enough and then they devolve due to the crap standards we set in the team and the poor behaviour/application we tolerate.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's funny to hear the owner name check the shite players who every clued in fan can see are the millstones on the clubs neck. Not just the obvious ones like Sancho and Antony but also Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. Only one spared was Mount.

Probably not the greatest thing for squad harmony if the owner of the club is confirming you're not wanted.

I love how fans hear what they want to hear. He literally just listed pre Ineos purchases who the club was still paying for (and he did bring up Mount as well in the bit about players available to Amorim).

 

[r0663664]

Once we start winning, whoever say that the system doesn't work will shut up. Football is about the players following instructions from the manager/coach. If they cannot do what the coach wants then the players need to leave United. Pep came and decided that he wants players to fit his football philosophy and City backed him. Who say this will never work? Till today, I cannot understand why we buy Mata (nice person), Antony, Casemiro and etc. Since I watched English football, the league is physical and fast. Amorim wants althetic and strong players is the right way to go regardless who is the manager.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Once we start winning, whoever say that the system doesn't work will shut up. Football is about the players following instructions from the manager/coach. If they cannot do what the coach wants then the players need to leave United. Pep came and decided that he wants players to fit his football philosophy and City backed him. Who say this will never work? Till today, I cannot understand why we buy Mata (nice person), Antony, Casemiro and etc. Since I watched English football, the league is physical and fast. Amorim wants althetic and strong players is the right way to go regardless who is the manager.

It really depends, if we get half decent again the usual problem with 343 and high positional possession is you score less goals - if we are dominating games but drawing too often, finding it hard to put teams away, then I think the formation will become a talking point. That will be a nice problem to have compared to now which is simply we have a crap midfield and no WBs and 343 exacerbates both issues.

 

[surf]

Big vote of confidence in him from Ratcliffe.

 

[Jev]

Once we start winning, whoever say that the system doesn't work will shut up.

Well, the people who believe in the system haven’t shut up while we’ve been in relegation form.

 

[Toshey]

Once we start winning, whoever say that the system doesn't work will shut up. Football is about the players following instructions from the manager/coach. If they cannot do what the coach wants then the players need to leave United. Pep came and decided that he wants players to fit his football philosophy and City backed him. Who say this will never work? Till today, I cannot understand why we buy Mata (nice person), Antony, Casemiro and etc. Since I watched English football, the league is physical and fast. Amorim wants althetic and strong players is the right way to go regardless who is the manager.

Flat earthers don't seem to shut up, so the anti Amorim crew will keep spamming no matter what.

 

[Jev]

Flat earthers don't seem to shut up, so the anti Amorim crew will keep spamming no matter what.

Unlike flat-earthers, the ‘anti Amorim crew’ have all the evidence on their side.

 

[erikcred]

Once we start winning, whoever say that the system doesn't work will shut up. Football is about the players following instructions from the manager/coach. If they cannot do what the coach wants then the players need to leave United. Pep came and decided that he wants players to fit his football philosophy and City backed him. Who say this will never work? Till today, I cannot understand why we buy Mata (nice person), Antony, Casemiro and etc. Since I watched English football, the league is physical and fast. Amorim wants althetic and strong players is the right way to go regardless who is the manager.

Winning what? The occasional match here and there? Or home games against bottom 10 teams?

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

Well, the people who believe in the system haven’t shut up while we’ve been in relegation form.

Abit hard to judge the guy when you take emotions out of it and think it through logically.

United only have Garnacho with pace until we bought Dorgu. Amad is injured, we’ve loaned out Rashford, Antony and Sancho without replacements.

United midfield is pretty weak, Casemiro has no legs, Erikson lightweight, Ugarte is a DM, Kobbie looking sluggish and Coly more of an energy player.

You never know what you’re getting with Onana. Holjund has no confidence, Zirkzee is a system player and not one who will change the game himself.

This team looks good playing big clubs because we sit back and hit them on the counter but that’s not what we want going forward.

I say give him a transfer window and next season. We’ve done neat and tidy recruitment, buying cheap athletic young players.

Of course we’re all upset with the results and the manager might not be the one but give him a chance. He deserves a fair shot unlike the pundits ignoring everything above and trying to create drama for views.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

If our PL games ended at half time, we would be 18th on the log. Thats bottom three.
Against Arsenal was the first half time lead we've had since December 1st in the league. That some 3 months of PL football.

We start games poorly. This is reinforced by starting with 5 pure defenders + 1 or 2 defensive midfielders.

This is the main problem with Amorim.

 

[DJ_21]

You can't believe that surely?

What do you mean?

Well we’ve improved in possession against the bigger teams. We’re seeing more patterns of play emerge. Massive improvements. With the right quality players brought in we’ll look better instantly

 

[DJ_21]

If our PL games ended at half time, we would be 18th on the log. Thats bottom three.
Against Arsenal was the first half time lead we've had since December 1st in the league. That some 3 months of PL football.

We start games poorly. This is reinforced by starting with 5 pure defenders + 1 or 2 defensive midfielders.

This is the main problem with Amorim.

This is down to having what’s available. Bruno’s playing cm he isn’t a defensive midfielder. Hopefully in the summer he’ll address the RWB to being someone who’s more attack minded so it will basically be like playing 3-2-5

 

[stepic]

Unlike flat-earthers, the ‘anti Amorim crew’ have all the evidence on their side.

4 months with no summer transfer window constitutes ‘evidence’ for impatient babies only.

 

[lex talionis]

I still stand where I have stood. Sacking Amorim now would be madness and a disgrace to the club, but it would be fair game for club management -- whose credentials are not particularly stellar -- once the season has ended to review all options as far as Amorim's future. But as it stands right now, Ruben is our only hope of the next steps being forward steps.

 

[erikcred]

I still stand where I have stood. Sacking Amorim now would be madness and a disgrace to the club, but it would be fair game for club management -- whose credentials are not particularly stellar -- once the season has ended to review all options as far as Amorim's future. But as it stands right now, Ruben is our only hope of the next steps being forward steps.

Even the summer is too early to review options tbf. Except if SAF managed to de-age himself into his 1990 version and became available.

Their job is to back Amorim and see if he can at least get us top 6-8 next season. I wouldn't buy any excuses about a team with a whole lot of internationals not being good enough for fecking top 8.

 

[FriedClams]

4 months with no summer transfer window constitutes ‘evidence’ for impatient babies only.

He did start a midfield of Casemiro and eriksen against Newcastle, which was his worst offence.

 

[Jev]

4 months with no summer transfer window constitutes ‘evidence’ for impatient babies only.

It’s the only evidence we have. It’s not enough. But it’s childish to believe that one is being more rational by trusting Amorim based on nothing but blind faith.

 

[stepic]

It’s the only evidence we have. It’s not enough. But it’s childish to believe that one is being more rational by trusting Amorim based on nothing but blind faith.

sacking him and replacing him with another manager and hoping they’d do any better with this squad would also be an act of ‘blind faith’. It’s not a valid argument.

If it’s not enough evidence to make a serious judgement (which it isn’t) then it’s not evidence - period.

And besides, anyone without their anti Amorim blinkers on can already see the direction he’s trying to get the team going, so there are small pockets of evidence developing, never mind all the additional evidence from his time at Sporting.

 

[Big Andy]

If our PL games ended at half time, we would be 18th on the log. Thats bottom three.
Against Arsenal was the first half time lead we've had since December 1st in the league. That some 3 months of PL football.

We start games poorly. This is reinforced by starting with 5 pure defenders + 1 or 2 defensive midfielders.

This is the main problem with Amorim.

Pointless stat. Where would we be if they started at half time?

 

[Brazilian_Ronaldo_9]

4 months with no summer transfer window constitutes ‘evidence’ for impatient babies only.

Add on the fact with no real replacements for Sancho, Antony and Rashford. But yeah let’s pile on the manager without giving him a fair shot.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

This is down to having what’s available. Bruno’s playing cm he isn’t a defensive midfielder. Hopefully in the summer he’ll address the RWB to being someone who’s more attack minded so it will basically be like playing 3-2-5

But fair enough, injuries have been intense only few weeks ago.

Amorim has been here for 121 days. Since November 11. He hasn't won back to back PL games.
His last half time lead was December 1st.
We haven't been injury beaten for 121 days. For now yes the team is back to bare bones.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Can he win two PL games in a row this season? I don't think so.

 

[DJ_21]

Can he win two PL games in a row this season? I don't think so.

Probably not now. We’ve actually got tough games after each other. Should beat Leicester but then we’ve got forest.

 

[quadrant]

Amorim is not very compatible with the squad we have, nor with the way our academy is set up to produce talent. Either the powers that be have a pretty different view of compatible or plan for some massive changes that we just aren't seeing at youth level (despite INEOS being involved with the club for a year). Not very joined up in either case.

I find it plausible to believe Berrada went for Amorim in large part because he knew he was on City's shortlist, and no real thought went into how much work on our squad and wider system would be required to make it work. Whatever the case he says he's all in so let’s see how it goes. He and Ashworth also gave a vote of confidence to Ten Hag before the Liverpool home game. Look how that ended up.

The current SMT didn't appoint ETH so a failure of continuity between his appointment and the next manager's can't be left at their door. They decided that the style of football ETH was pursuing wasn't what they wanted, so they went with a manager that did. You can decide whether there is continuity in their appointments & squad planning once they appoint a second manager, not before.

As for your second comment - why take the worst position possible? The first part is pure speculation and the comment about supporting ETH before the Liverpool game is thin gruel. Are you seriously judging a CEO based on that? Its like you're fishing round for any reason to be unhappy. How about letting the new CEO do the job for a year or two and then judging him then?

 

[Abhinav]

Over the last few games, it seems like we have been playing better but have been letdown with the attackers.
In general, hearing him talk about where he wants to take us in the future is quite promising, and leaves me optimistic for the future.

 

[lex talionis]

Even the summer is too early to review options tbf. Except if SAF managed to de-age himself into his 1990 version and became available.

Their job is to back Amorim and see if he can at least get us top 6-8 next season. I wouldn't buy any excuses about a team with a whole lot of internationals not being good enough for fecking top 8.

I also would not sack Amorim this summer, but if for the sake of argument we lost the rest of our matches this season the prospect of the sack would have to be taken seriously. But it really all depends on what the objectively learned lessons are from Amorim's tenure as manager. I've seen enough to convince that he is the best man for the job for us right now, but if an epic collapse closes out the season all options need to be put on the table.

 

[NLunited]

I‘m not convinced he is the right man yet, if we continue to play poorly its best to say byebyes in summer.