Exactly right. It's what we have wanted in a coach for ages. There hasn't been instant gratification, but that isn't any reason to pull the plug. I'm liking the new transfer strategy and even if it may not pay off immediately, we have reason for optimism. I look forward to Amorim having a full preseason with the team and more options incoming who will fit his intentions.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
That is something that really grates on me as we’ve spent years wanting a structure to be put in place so the coach comes in simply to coach rather than choosing the style of play, the footballing identity and what players come in to fit the system and Ratcliffe himself publicly said those days are gone yet here we are again.
I really want Amorim to succeed but if he doesn’t then do we then go for Xabi Alonso or Oliver Glasner or Antonio Conte because they also play 3-4-2-1 ? Or do we do the same thing yet again and bring in a coach who has to have yet another overhaul because the players don’t fit that coach ?
I hear from a lot on here that Amorim’s formation doesn’t require specialists then it’s that he doesn’t have the players he needs for his formation to work, either way I hope he succeeds but this does have to be the final time that we do this in regards to constant overhauls to fit coaches tactical preferences and should have our own way of playing so the coaches bend to the clubs Will rather than us bending to theirs.
:I don’t have an answer to your overall concern, but I’d like to point out that since SAF left, we don’t have any style of play or philosophy, so to speak. It’s just all short-term solutions, which culminated in where we are today. The blame is squarely on the Glazers for the abandonment of course, but it is what it is. Maybe with Amorim, we’re trying to establish a new football identity rather than just a new system. It will be more telling what kind of football style we’ll be pursuing going forward IF Amorim was sacked.
We're overhauling to bring in a type of profile and better quality, not players who can only play 3421. Why don't you lot save your moaning until we sign a player that is no use beyond this manager? Until then it's an odd hypothetical to moan about.
That’s a very good point. Them laying down the foundations and wanting similar managers to manage us which then means we don’t need a big overhaul each time basically means If Amorim doesn’t succeed and we look to move on then that means we’d need a manager who prefers a back 3 which limits who we go for. The top ones would obviously be Alonso, inzaghi.
People are way too hung on three at the back. Amorim's basic approach is no different to most big teams these days - a combination of pressing and possession, the aim to play the game in the oppostion third, width on both flanks, a couple of players moving in and around the half spaces outside the penalty area. Its a common template. The difference between his style of football and many other coaches who play the same way but with 4 at the back is smaller than the difference between counter attacking football and possession football.
The main concession to his style is needing either attacking full backs, or wingers who can do a shift defensively. This is different from those managers who prefer inverted full backs or inverted wingers. But really, that's not a huge issue, plenty of managers use attacking full backs. Beyond that, the only other issue is the potential to have an extra first team quality CB, which is not really an issue if you buy decent players in the first place, just sell one on.
You almost never get a new manager coming in who doesn't want to make any changes to a squad. There's always some turnover as new managers do their own thing. What matters is that you can adjust a squad to the new manager's style with 2 or 3 new players, rather than needing 7 or 8.
If he is supported with the transfers of some players who fit his system, promote from the youth and shift as many as he can of the worst/injury prone players on this summer, then I think Amorim has a good chance to get us top 6/7 next season and put us on a footing to break top 4 the season after and eventually a title shot. He proved his worth with the 3rd best club in Portugal who were miles behind Benfica and Porto before he took over, breaking the duopoly up, bit like Fergie in Scotland.
Which midfielders would everyone go for to play in midfield two?
They have to be mobile, good on the ball and have great defensive instincts.
These types of players are few and far between if you ask me so I think we have a tough task filling those roles.
They have to be mobile, good on the ball and have great defensive instincts.
These types of players are few and far between if you ask me so I think we have a tough task filling those roles.
Only a few top teams play 3 CBs, hence it was a big gamble by us going down that path.
Anyone can have a clear vision, the difficult part is to implement it on the pitch.
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Yeah that quote stood out to be too. Feels like we've once again gone back to "the coach decides how we play and the rest of the club follows along".
Baleba would be a dream signing, but is too expensive.
They finally came out to give backing!
They all publicly backed the manager a few months ago as well to be fair.
It’s very different to top teams though when defending. We defend with a solid back 5. None of the other top teams do. So that’s a massive difference.
That wasn’t what he said. He said they are still being paid for.
True. Some successful teams aswell. Inter Milan being the main one, alonso at Leverkusen last season. Most top teams play either 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 as it gives a lot more attacking freedom.
Our defence have improved quite a lot recently. De ligt is thriving in a back 3. Our issue is forward players. There actually letting the defence down… our defenders must think every game that we need a clean sheet as if we concede then we ain’t out scoring the opponents.
They are the majority of the larger outlays relevant to the previous regime, no?
I haven't read the interview (s?) but going by just some of the quotes, I am more optimistic. I still think Amorim has to show more but if the board really do back him then perhaps, it's more a simple case of bringing down the whole foundation (i.e sell everyone we can) and bring in whoever suits him. It's a gamble but at least it's a concentrated and single minded effort unlike the haphazard approach of before.
Sometimes it is all or nothing and I guess I'd take those odds. At least that gives me some (blind) hope but I know it's going to be a few years before we'll see the type of progress we've all been begging for.
Sometimes it is all or nothing and I guess I'd take those odds. At least that gives me some (blind) hope but I know it's going to be a few years before we'll see the type of progress we've all been begging for.
Doesn't he know he's wrong and we should be finishing top 4 with that lot.
Assuming we sign Quenda, both he and Dorgu are more than capable of playing as out and out wingers too. There really isn’t an issue adjusting to a different formation, should be ever need to. You guys need to stop getting so hung up on formation.
Quenda is actually currently playing as one of Sporting’s 10s in their system.
If we could I'd love to see this 11 get 3 games before the season is out
Bayindir
Yoro De Ligt Heaven
Dalot Ugarte Bruno Dorgu
Amad Mount/Mainoo
Garnacho
Bayindir
Yoro De Ligt Heaven
Dalot Ugarte Bruno Dorgu
Amad Mount/Mainoo
Garnacho
Ederson from Atalanta would be a dream signing.. Has all the characteristics you mention and already plays in a 3421 system. I think Wharton from Palace could work too.
Not a dig for dig's sake. He has to be held accountable too.
It's clearly not a top 6 squad right now with players loaned out and injured. I doubt you'll find anyone saying it is one at present. Most people would have said it was a European places squad at the start of the season though.
He called out the quality of the squad before now too. You were'nt paying attention.
Let me get my scouting manual out and then we can both go through it together to find that player.
It's going to be interesting to see the contradictions in peoples attitudes when in this thread they're saying Amorim must be backed, but then moaning in the Mainoo and Gernacho threads when Ineos sell them to fund this backing of the head coach.
Remember, we're strapped for cash and things are so bad up the other end of the pitch we are mulling over playing a very raw 18 year old up front. Let's ditch the manual and sign some forwards eh?
This completely contradicts Sir Jim's initial pitch that the club will pick the style and the coach will play it.
As others have said, once again we've fallen into hoping our first team coach can provide a sense of direction because the club lacks one.
I guess all we can do is hope it works this time.
I think it's a very fair thing to moan about. We're going to have to sell all our wide attackers (because we're skint) to find the rebuild, but when Amorim gets sacked, 95% of managers will want wide attackers.
Unless his 10s are just wide attackers.
They are slightly concerning remarks to be fair. You could argue that they've decided to go down this path going forward with Amorim currently and then continue with it post Amorim. But that didn't seem to be the plan last summer so it does make one suspect that we are indeed still gollowing the Glazers/Woodward model of putting all our eggs in one basket, hiring a new manager with a different style and then allowing them to rip the squad up.
I didn't know it was an either/or situation. It is a money problem, not that we already have fast CCB's. Got it.
Let me put the manual back in the shelf.
Only if you take the most binary approach possible and believe it's either 100% the club or 100% the manager who decides how we play. No club works like that, especially big clubs that approach the most sought after managers. What happens is that the club will narrow down a certain profile of manager that's compatible with the club and its squad, and then the manager will make whatever changes he wants to within that overall envelope.
Main challenge why this 2 man midfield doesn't succeed in EPL. Give it 18 months, we will be here crying again about a new coach.
But at United it absolutely has worked like that, we often seem to be at the mercy of agents touting their clients rather than proactive scouting. Ole and Mou all set their own styles and had big inputs on recruitment. The 'hierarchy' such as it was backed ETH 100% and he seemed to have total control over signings, something that was remarked upon with some astonishment by various pundits over the course of his tenure. No other top club has allowed a manager to buy so many of his former players or those who played against him in Dutch league. We now have gone back to allowing a CEO to choose a manager, who for all his CV is not a football person, over a football person (Ashworth). So we are absolutely now buying players to fit a rigid system manager. Its a joke, as is this club.
Amorim is not very compatible with the squad we have, nor with the way our academy is set up to produce talent. Either the powers that be have a pretty different view of compatible or plan for some massive changes that we just aren't seeing at youth level (despite INEOS being involved with the club for a year). Not very joined up in either case.
I find it plausible to believe Berrada went for Amorim in large part because he knew he was on City's shortlist, and no real thought went into how much work on our squad and wider system would be required to make it work. Whatever the case he says he's all in so lets see how it goes. He and Ashworth also gave a vote of confidence to Ten Hag before the Liverpool home game. Look how that ended up.
Yep, Ten Hag was very compatible with the squad too.. this squad is not compatible with playing at the highest level, nothing to do with Amorim or anyone else.
The City comment is just silly, they have identified a manager that they think will work. Obviously, you would know who is on the City shortlist, could you enlighten me, who else is on that City shortlist that you know so much about? When they have a manager who has just signed a new deal.
So what, did you want them to come out saying, they dont believe in the manager before a Liverpool game?