I think this post reflects a lot of my sentiments. I don’t know how much I can warm to a system that wants to play more defenders than attackers, and perhaps more importantly where the ideal system really doesn’t want wide attackers.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
He's made the change everyone was begging for at half time.
I think people probably need to remind themselves he's been here less than 6 months, he' still learning the league and his players.
I think people probably need to remind themselves he's been here less than 6 months, he' still learning the league and his players.
One day people may realise that our two wingbacks play as forwards in attack.
One day people may realise telling conventional fullbacks they’re now “wingbacks” doesn’t equate to them suddenly becoming good at attacking. Guys like Mazraoui, Dalot, and Gorgu are operating in one v one isolation positions that our major rivals (edit: basically anyone else we play against) have actual genuine offensive threats playing in.
I'd be grateful if those people would be our wingbacks.
Lumping Dorgu and Maz/Dalot together is pretty lazy.
We don't have any good forwards bar Amad though. There isn't a current alternative to what we're seeing, it's the dreadful squad Ten Hag built.
Now now, did you not get the memo about common sense posts in here. He is to be judged as though he has been here a few seasons and his own players at his disposal.
I don't think this to be the case, I think Amorim ridiculously see's that as Bruno's position.
Between Ugarte / Cas including the centre backs that's 5 defensive players out of 10 outfield positions which is overkill.
Although it's worth pointing out that, perhaps completely by coincidence, we've totally lost control of the game since we made those changes.
You realise Dorgu played as a right winger most of the season, right?
You also realise we’re forced to play Maz and Dalot because we have no one else, especially after Amad’s injury, right?
Why? Because the former is a new signing? It’s pretty obvious to see his player profile is an up and down conventional fullback. He does not look natural in wide isolation circumstances. And I’m not surprised - he is not a winger. Certainly not at this level.
See above. He could’ve played as a false 9 enganche for Leece, you only have to watch how he’s playing tonight to see
According to whoscored, Amad has played five of his 36 at right fullback in this back five.
You can give him the benefit of the doubt owing to a lack of options (which he exacerbated by removing half of the wide attackers he had at the club at the first chance he had), but it is a fact that Amorim’s default has been to play with conventional fullbacks in his back five.
Amorim been very poor today.
Continuing to play Eriksen is bizarre
Continuing to play Eriksen is bizarre
Dorgu isn’t a conventional fullback so your analysis falls flat.
The fact he played the likes of Quenda in the wingback role at Sporting, and that we were in for him, also disproves your theory.
The wingback roles are attackers in this system. The fact we don’t have an option on the right is why it’s one of our key target positions in the summer. Dorgu is a young player who will have off nights - he was excellent in our last game. Stop being so reactionary.
Our possession is pointless when we have no threat whatsoever up front. We haven't created anything, our crosses hardly find anyone most of the time because there is no one there.
We play one defender more than most of the teams, and our wing backs are equally attacking as those teams that play with fullbacks/4 at the back.
We were in the first half, bit more attacking in the second half but it really didn't change much. We still play with 5 defenders when most teams play with 4.
I don’t care who he played at Sporting or where Gorgu played at Leece. What matters is what is happening right here, right now. ten Hag played Cruijffian disciple football at Ajax. He came here and became a transitional coach and gave up any semblance of playing possession football.
Amorim has managed 28 games for this club. In the vast majority of those, he has played more defensive players than attacking ones. I’m not being reactionary, I’m being factual.
I don’t imagine this will change substantially during his time here. This is how he wants to set up his football teams.
Would an non-match fit Mount or young Collyer be more appropriate than Eriksen ? Hard to say they would better.
Yes. Almost like we’re in need of a striker as one of our main priorities in the summer.
You can’t say a team is playing defensive when we’ve dominated possession and had more shots than the opposition.
If you play with two attacking fullbacks in a back four you will run the risk of getting done on the counter pushing both players forward. The third CB allows us to do it, particularly when the third one allows the 2 others to push forward themselves to create the two diamonds on either side.
But no, we actually sit back in a flat back 7 or something
Yes. Almost like we’re in need of a striker as one of our main priorities in the summer.
You can’t say a team is playing defensive when we’ve dominated possession and had more shots than the opposition.
If you play with two attacking fullbacks in a back four you will run the risk of getting done on the counter pushing both players forward. The third CB allows us to do it, particularly when the third one allows the 2 others to push forward themselves to create the two diamonds on either side.
But no, we actually sit back in a flat back 7 or something
In general, with better suited players it would still look better, because our current players playing wing backs are no more than your average fullbacks anyway, and our wide forwards are mostly attacking midfielders than wide forwards, but it's up to the manager to see that and make some changes.
But we will see what happens in the summer, I think and hope he is smarter than Ten Hag who simply didn't understand playing in England, IMO.
Nottingham Forest average the lowest possession % in the entire league. It’s intentional from them tonight.
Forest are biggest bunch of diving goblins in the league, by far.
Good lad Eriksen.
Tired of clubs like Forrest getting the best of us for years now. Alternative universe stuff. When are we going to get a manager that turns this around, I'm fecking tired of it.
Never. But honestly we haven’t been that bad tonight. Still disappointing and I still have faith in the manager.
How garnacho is still on blows my mind. Worst player on the pitch by far and he somehow plays 90minutes. I like Amorim but this is criminal.
Yes, they’re the ones who have played defensive.
It's really weird that people still use argument of possession like it's some important stat to see who was the better team. Even xG is better than posession.
That's part of the issue though.
It's pretty simple, you don't win many PL games with dross forwards like us regardless of manager.
Ruben said that he is really confident. Only thing I am confident is that after performance like this I would be immediately fired from my job. Disgraceful from players once again and Ruben & team have some work in summer because we are Championship level team currently.
Dont try to re write history.
City played with 4 pure midfielders in treble winning season.
Rodri, KDB, Silva, Gundogan. All at their peak.
Dont look at formations, or such things.
Look at the profile of the players on pitch, us we play with 5 pure defenders on the pitch.
Even if you put the defender as a striker in a formation, he is still a defender.
Without 3 minimum midfielders in EPL, you can not win anything for long.
I’m actually quite pleased with how we’ve played tonight. Obviously scoreline not what we want but at least we’re starting to look like a team, lack of quality in the final third but other than that we’ve done ok, hopefully it’s starting to click.
It’s being used to show that we’ve not played defensive tonight (the original point you made, so don’t shift the goalposts), not that we’ve been the better team.
Even though on the whole we have been the better team tonight. Just lacking sufficient quality up front, which has been our clear issue all season.
He's really not. So maybe not lazy, just not very informed.
Losing by one goal in a tight game away at the team that's third in the league, after only signing one project player in January and 'supporters' are already losing patience. Christ..
Only insofar as Dalot isn’t good enough and Dorgu is inconsistent due to his age.
It’s a lack of quality, particularly on the right, not a problem with the system. The wingback role is an attacking one in attack. This ‘playing with 5 defenders’ nonsense trotted out in here misses this fact.
Whenever some bore talks about possession to prove a point, I think back to how Ferguson would best Arsenal despite them dominating possession with loads of meaningless passes outside our box
We haven't played defensive, I never said we were defensive because we have obviously moved the team forward and played more risky, but we are still lacking bodies up front. We were clearly missing another player up front and our formation has one extra defender, even Amorim did everything he could in the second half to fix that, and Maguire coming on in attack further confirms it.
They played a box midfield with Rodri and Stones tucking in to be a double pivot and KDB/Gundogan in the 2 Am positions. Grealish and Silva played in the wide positions.
KdB and Bernardo Silva are about as "pure midfielders" as Bruno and Diallo are.
Yeah, and Arsenal fans would always say how they deserved to win because they had more posession and tried more shots, despite United beating them most of the time.
Switched off after about 25 mins that's how boring this team is now for me lack of players in forward positions not that they wouldn't brain fart the moments anyway.