The fact that I needed to post the link of my old posts and specifically re-quoted where you missed is a reflection that this discussion is going circle. I don’t have time to keep re-quoting what you missed.
Like I said before, If you disagree, then be respectful and agree-to-disagree because it’s common to have different views. Don’t try to misinterpret what I have said and what I have already explained. Move on mate.
His Sporting team never scored much (relatively speaking) until his final season - then they outscored everyone else by quite a margin.
But in the seasons before that, they never outscored their main rivals (top of the table, I mean) - even when winning the league.
(Not really making a point - just looking at sheer numbers.)
Also, with regard to the part in bold: Do you think his employers are aware of this? Or - perhaps we should ask, rather - were they aware of this before they hired him?
Embargoed bit….
I agree. Just like I wasn't a fan of Mourinho's approach against the big teams or second season ETH or last season LVG.I don’t think you have necessarily said something different. There is a lot to like in terms of temperament and he seems a great and likeable personality. But from a purely football perspective, are you happy either way the foundations you are seeing so far? Personally, I still don’t fully agree with the footballing principles I’m seeing. Of course, I’ve become desperate to the point where I’ll take anything that works - but it all looks like unnecessarily over complicated football to me which has a lower probability of success than something a bit more traditional, and relies upon a perfect alignment that is harder to find.
My views are subject to change, but in theory, I want to see a team with great 1v1 forwards in attacking roles who take people on and score goals. I also want to see central midfielders that control games with the ball. Amorim’s ideas may work in the end, but I just don’t like the approach.
Unsure if it's just me that's seeing this but he looks a lot happier and more the coach that first arrived here at the club compared to say 2 months ago where he looked like he wasn't getting any sleep.
Do I sense a change of mood in our team? Even the training videos the players look happier and more together. Either way I love to see Ruben smile and be happy. Long may this continue
So we have Fernandes, who do we sign for the other one? Or are you of the belief Zirkzee is built for it? Even so Mount isn’t reliable and then we need to sign one more 10- so who?How people are still complaining this formation is remotely defensive is beyond me. As for 3 forwards, that's exactly what we'll end up with obviously as we already know the exact template he wants to deploy, his Sporting 10s attacked the box and scored goals.
So we have Fernandes, who do we sign for the other one? Or are you of the belief Zirkzee is built for it? Even so Mount isn’t reliable and then we need to sign one more 10- so who?
I can see it too. Remember we had a couple of good results then the international break so he could decompress a bit as well, going into a break on a bad streak would be stressful. I think it's also helped him Radcliffe coming out and speaking a couple of times, it takes some of the heat away from him which is exactly what's needed.Unsure if it's just me that's seeing this but he looks a lot happier and more the coach that first arrived here at the club compared to say 2 months ago where he looked like he wasn't getting any sleep.
Do I sense a change of mood in our team? Even the training videos the players look happier and more together. Either way I love to see Ruben smile and be happy. Long may this continue
Midfield 2 will never work in PL. Nothing longterm or sustainable can a Midfield 2 win in EPL.How people are still complaining this formation is remotely defensive is beyond me. As for 3 forwards, that's exactly what we'll end up with obviously as we already know the exact template he wants to deploy, his Sporting 10s attacked the box and scored goals.
Man City won titles in the last few years playing 4-4-2 more than 4-3-3's. In fact the "box" midfield has been more in vogue that the 3 man midfield for a few years now. City literally won the Treble with it.Midfield 2 will never work in PL. Nothing longterm or sustainable can a Midfield 2 win in EPL.
One title like Conte at best.
Amorim will change in due course. And all yappers who will say, he wont change. Amorim is 40 years, he wont manage in the next 30 years without changing his ways. Hopefully the change will come when he's managing us.
About Sporting, Portuguese league is different to EPL. The demands are different, opponents, quality etc one way working in Portugal doesn't mean it will work in EPL.
Even Arteta started playing with wingbacks, the changed and his fortunes rose. Even Amorim will change in due course. If not, he will be sacked.
I think the transfer window closing helped. Most players weren’t sure if they’ll survive past the January windowUnsure if it's just me that's seeing this but he looks a lot happier and more the coach that first arrived here at the club compared to say 2 months ago where he looked like he wasn't getting any sleep.
Do I sense a change of mood in our team? Even the training videos the players look happier and more together. Either way I love to see Ruben smile and be happy. Long may this continue
Didn’t miss it - I just didn’t agree with it and provided detailed reasons why I disagreed with it. Meanwhile you were the one straw manning me by claiming I said our RWB had to be our main source of attack - something I never said. So much for being respectful…
Also - pretty rich to tell me to move on when I’d already made a post agreeing that we should stop cnuting up the thread. Guess you missed that bit too, so maybe try taking your own advice mate.
Genius of him to pick a team with no pace tonight
I didn't see Garnacho in the lineup when I made that post so I deleted it.Yeah really stupid of him not to pick ummmm. Give me a minute, I must be missing someone.
Maguire? Eriksen? No I've got it, Lindelof is what we need.
Why the feck has he moved Fernandes out of a role that was making us tick? Amorim just does genuinely baffling things that even a 5 year old could see is incorrect.
That’s what you get with 3 CBs, unless you have exceptional attacking talent which we don't have. There's no attacking structure to our play.We are just too defensive team with this set up, especially with these players up front that are simply not quality enough. Simply lacking bodies up front.
Yeah there no threat at all, despite being better sideWe are just too defensive team with this set up, especially with these players up front that are simply not quality enough. Simply lacking bodies up front.
And we have yet to really threaten at all, Fernandes has already started to be pulled away from the front looking for the ball in his own half thus blunting the attack further. He can't play higher up.Because we needed more grit in midfield as Forest's only strength is the power of their running.
They've only really threatened from our corners...
How people are still complaining this formation is remotely defensive is beyond me. As for 3 forwards, that's exactly what we'll end up with obviously as we already know the exact template he wants to deploy, his Sporting 10s attacked the box and scored goals.
We are just too defensive team with this set up, especially with these players up front that are simply not quality enough. Simply lacking bodies up front.
We are anything BUT defensive this game.We are just too defensive team with this set up, especially with these players up front that are simply not quality enough. Simply lacking bodies up front.
Not seeing a particularly defensive set up at all-we’re getting bodies in the box and have played some good passes for chances. Garnacho and Bruno not being especially effective though (so far)
I think this post reflects a lot of my sentiments. I don’t know how much I can warm to a system that wants to play more defenders than attackers, and perhaps more importantly where the ideal system really doesn’t want wide attackers.Reflecting over this mid-season break, I would say that my initial position when Amorim was first linked with us has not changed. I think he’s a talented coach and seemingly a very likeable man, however, I don’t think he’s the right fit. He may even win something with us, just as Conte could have done - but I was skeptical about his football from the start.
To me, he’s puts too many defenders on the pitch at once, and then of the others, he puts too many midfielders. In a traditional 433 - I see it t as 3 forwards/strikers PLUS a 10. With us we are playing 5 defenders and sometimes as many as 4 further midfield players. Players like Mount, Eriksen, Mainoo, Bruno are not players who should be in a front 3. These players are effectively playing a Heung-Min Son role for us. They should have 3 forwards ahead of them, not be the forward players.
Then there’s the midfield itself. I was concerned at Sporting that he didn’t seem to require much from his midfielders with the football. They are set up to play against the ball firstly.
The outcome of that is players like Rashford, Garnacho and Mainoo have been struggling to fit. Mainoo can play in a top midfield IMO, but not in this one because that type of midfielder isn’t really conducive. Rashford has played poorly, but in terms of profile - I’d be worried if we were asking questions about whether this type of player can play or not. It’s the type of player every top team needs to make a difference, and the idea that a player like Mason Mount could be more suited to Rashford for a role says a lot about the expectations of the role. I feel like if Amorim was managing Liverpool, he could theoretically see Striker + Szobozlai and Jones as a feasible front 3, or even Striker + Salah + Jones, which is still not as potent IMO.
Basically, the team feels like a bit of a blunt instrument. Too often we expect our promising attacking situations to be solved by players who are not optimised in those situations. I don’t know who we will sign in the summer, but changing Hojlund for Osimhen, swapping one 10 for another doesn’t change enough I fear. I want 3 forwards on the pitch. There are no ‘flying wingers’ in this vision from what I can see, and some of the best players in world football would not really have a role in this team.
In the absolute perfect storm, any system can work of course if every player is ‘just right’ for this idea, but that is difficult to achieve with a vision that excludes so much talent on the market by default.
It’s like people are not understanding what I’m saying. The formation is a secondary issue. The approach is a secondary issue. My point is, our team tends to have half of it as defenders, and 3 or 3 of the others being midfielders. Asking those midfielders to play attacking roles doesn’t make the team dangerous enough. We need actual forward players who have the qualities of forward players to penetrate in the final third. We are lacking that. Sometimes even Garnacho’s role goes to a midfielder. There just isn’t enough incision, and the players we are working into positions to bring that incision are often not forwards. They are full backs and midfielders.
We need a direct threat in the team. Someone to move opposition around and threaten them in behind. We’re too sterile going forward.
One day people may realise telling conventional fullbacks they’re now “wingbacks” doesn’t equate to them suddenly becoming good at attacking. Guys like Mazraoui, Dalot, and Gorgu are operating in one v one isolation positions that our major rivals (edit: basically anyone else we play against) have actual genuine offensive threats playing in.One day people may realise that our two wingbacks play as forwards in attack.
I'd be grateful if those people would be our wingbacks.One day people may realise that our two wingbacks play as forwards in attack.
Lumping Dorgu and Maz/Dalot together is pretty lazy.One day people may realise telling conventional fullbacks they’re now “wingbacks” doesn’t equate to them suddenly becoming good at attacking. Guys like Mazraoui, Dalot, and Gorgu are operating in one v one isolation positions that our major rivals have actual genuine offensive threats playing in.
We don't have any good forwards bar Amad though. There isn't a current alternative to what we're seeing, it's the dreadful squad Ten Hag built.It’s like people are not understanding what I’m saying. The formation is a secondary issue. The approach is a secondary issue. My point is, our team tends to have half of it as defenders, and 3 or 3 of the others being midfielders. Asking those midfielders to play attacking roles doesn’t make the team dangerous enough. We need actual forward players who have the qualities of forward players to penetrate in the final third. We are lacking that. Sometimes even Garnacho’s role goes to a midfielder. There just isn’t enough incision, and the players we are working into positions to bring that incision are often not forwards. They are full backs and midfielders.
We need a direct threat in the team. Someone to move opposition around and threaten them in behind. We’re too sterile going forward.
Now now, did you not get the memo about common sense posts in here. He is to be judged as though he has been here a few seasons and his own players at his disposal.He's made the change everyone was begging for at half time.
I think people probably need to remind themselves he's been here less than 6 months, he' still learning the league and his players.
Because we needed more grit in midfield as Forest's only strength is the power of their running.
They've only really threatened from our corners...
Although it's worth pointing out that, perhaps completely by coincidence, we've totally lost control of the game since we made those changes.Now now, did you not get the memo about common sense posts in here. He is to be judged as though he has been here a few seasons and his own players at his disposal.
One day people may realise telling conventional fullbacks they’re now “wingbacks” doesn’t equate to them suddenly becoming good at attacking. Guys like Mazraoui, Dalot, and Gorgu are operating in one v one isolation positions that our major rivals (edit: basically anyone else we play against) have actual genuine offensive threats playing in.
Why? Because the former is a new signing? It’s pretty obvious to see his player profile is an up and down conventional fullback. He does not look natural in wide isolation circumstances. And I’m not surprised - he is not a winger. Certainly not at this level.Lumping Dorgu and Maz/Dalot together is pretty lazy.
See above. He could’ve played as a false 9 enganche for Leece, you only have to watch how he’s playing tonight to seeYou realise Dorgu played as a right winger most of the season, right?
You also realise we’re forced to play Maz and Dalot because we have no one else, especially after Amad’s injury, right?
