Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[soapythecat]

Another defeat tonight and he’s in trouble. Has to be. He’s done the square root of feck all since he’s arrived and sticking with a system that suits maybe 2 players we have. It’s utter madness to persist with it, but he has and we would be relegated were it not for the 3 bottom sides.
Wrong decision to appoint him and that is plain to see, but now we can see his system isn’t cutting it in the league, sticking with him is another mistake.

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

Winning EL would be good.

Going out now to play once a week would be good.

I think that's what Amorim secretly thinks, it doesn't matter either way to him but I believe he wants to win every game - but if we go out, it's not the end of the world either.

Why?

 

[Zed 101]

So how comes we can achieve a very good performance at Anfield with this same squad and players. We know and accept Anfield is the ultimate test for any United team.
How comes we win at Etihad for the first time since Ole reign using this same squad which has no quality? Explain this please...

Was it players in all other games were we played poorly and Amorim brilliance at Anfield & Etihad? Which is which?

I was specifically talking about new manager bounce, but:

This has been addressed by pretty much everyone, players raising their game putting in extra effort in big matches, also vs Liverpool, City and Arsenal we have sat a lot deeper and did not try to force the game, we were also under dogs in those games which took a lot of pressure off.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

And McTominay netting us 10 points on his own with his last minute goals. And Hojlund and Garnacho scoring 17 league goals between them instead of the 5 they've managed this season. Without these goal contributions the squad is relegation level.

But this has only been pointed out about 500 times already and still cant seem to break through the brain rot in this thread.

So again, i ask...

Hojlund and Garnacho scoring 17 goals between them is it because they are world beaters or because they played in a good system or luck or something else we dont know.

But If, they were world beaters then they can't have turned dog-shit in 8 months. Read having poor squad, poor strikers etc narrative...

And if they play in poor system now then it means ETH system was best for them and Amorim setup is handbraking them..

So answer your questions.. who to blame for Garnacho and Hojlund not scoring 17 PL goals? Their own quality limitations or system limitations?

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I was specifically talking about new manager bounce, but:

This has been addressed by pretty much everyone, players raising their game putting in extra effort in big matches, also vs Liverpool, City and Arsenal we have sat a lot deeper and did not try to force the game, we were also under dogs in those games which took a lot of pressure off.

So if its players induced the results at Anfield and Etihad


THEN WHAT HAS AMORIM ACHIEVE FOR US....

because the few happy performances we've got are players raising their game.(you have said it yourself.)

Get my logic please...

The good performances we've had is Players induced, then what has Amorim brought to us then?


And also, it BEATS THE NARRATIVE we have a poor squad or players..

BECAUSE you have said it yourself Players raised their game to win at Etihad and get a draw at Anfield.

So we agree we have a SQUAD CAPABLE OF RAISING its game to get results against top team, right...

You get the double speak..

When we get results its players raising their game.
When we get beaten it is we have poor players and squad.

 

[hobbers]

So answer your questions.. who to blame for Garnacho and Hojlund not scoring 17 PL goals? Their own quality limitations or system limitations?

The answer is that there's a big natural variation in the output of mediocre players.

How many easy chances has Garnacho fecked up this season? He's missed more big chances than any other forward in the league. His shooting stats this season are catastrophically bad.

That's nothing to do with the manager, past or present.

Hojlund's issues might be more of a split between his lack of ability and the fact the team is playing so badly. He's fundamentally not good enough at football to be a lone striker at this level, so he'll never be a good fit for Amorim's system, but same goes for 4231 and 433 managers.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Why?

I actually think getting out of Europe might be a good thing for the short term, next season we don't play in EU, which means only domestic schedule, and more time on the training pitch.

Obviously I don't want to see us lose any game in any competition and I would rather us go as deep as possible in the EL and even try to win it, but I get why some folks would think a season without European football might be a good thing for this team.

 

[Mike Smalling]

The answer is that there's a big natural variation in the output of mediocre players.

How many easy chances has Garnacho fecked up this season? He's missed more big chances than any other forward in the league. His shooting stats this season are catastrophically bad.

That's nothing to do with the manager, past or present.

Hojlund's issues might be more of a split between his lack of ability and the fact the team is playing so badly.

Højlund's form is also clearly impacted by his confidence. He got almost all of his PL goals last season in one purple patch, where a few things fell kindly for him, and he really got going. Now he is totally empty on confidence and playing in a team that doesn't perform well overall. He has a severe lack of ability, but is also in bad form.

Garnacho is just a super erratic finisher. Arrives at a ton of chances, and needs a lot of them to score goals.

And it's not like these two players were performing well with ETH before he got the sack this season. I believe they got one PL goal each before Ruud stepped in.

 

[lolok]

No, the dominant narrative last season was that Hag had 2 full seasons, spent £450m in his first 2 summer windows, was going backwards tactically since halfway through season 1, and made the squad worse with almost every signing.

The dominant narrative this season is the squad is shite, because it is. If you think it's stronger than last season/worthy of top 8, with the changes in personnel and the current injuries, then you are wildly deluded. Of course anyone who's read the ETH or Amorim threads already knows that.

^^^ Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.

People also conveniently forget that United was terrible to start the season under Ten Hag. When was the last time United had a team where not one player was considered a top 50 player in the world? top 100 player in the world? This team is just filled with overpaid mediocrity. ETH spent all of that money on mediocre players. Would any of United's players start for Liverpool or City? That just shows the lack of quality throughout the squad and it can't be fixed overnight.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I don't know if Amorim is capable of making this team competitive, even if he gets a summer window and some good players that fit his system, I don't see anything since his arrival that gives me hope, however, I still think it's true that we have a set of mediocre players who lack basic quality to do simple things, even our best player Bruno, who I think is carrying the team, has his own issues, so the rest of the team is really nothing to write home about.

 

[dutchred]

Is he falling into the same trap as as ETH ( witrh Antony) with Dallot. Both are Portugese, so he plays Dallot. Kamason is 10 times the player Dallot is and can't get a game

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Garnacho's goals and assists happened primarily in the first part of the season. After that he's had a conflict with Amorim and the club tried to sell him in the winter transfer market. His almost non-existent production since is surely unrelated.

 

[El-Manos]

Another defeat tonight and he’s in trouble. Has to be. He’s done the square root of feck all since he’s arrived and sticking with a system that suits maybe 2 players we have. It’s utter madness to persist with it, but he has and we would be relegated were it not for the 3 bottom sides.
Wrong decision to appoint him and that is plain to see, but now we can see his system isn’t cutting it in the league, sticking with him is another mistake.

And hire who? Rince & repeat the same failing process over & over again. He might not be the answer but no manager can fix this shit that's for sure.

 

[JPRouve]

Is he falling into the same trap as as ETH ( witrh Antony) with Dallot. Both are Portugese, so he plays Dallot. Kamason is 10 times the player Dallot is and can't get a game

ETH damaged the reputation of brazilian head coaches.

 

[NLunited]

already debated it in depth in this thread, can't be bothered..

in short ,the squad is NOWHERE NEAR top 6 in terms of balance, depth, ability, mentality.

Show me you thought so last season. The popular opinion was that 8th place was a terrible finish, despite crippling injuries.

I‘m pointing out the discrepancy between last and this season. Our attack wasn‘t performing well either.

And, I think this squad can do better, based on last year‘s performances and on incoming players this season.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

ETH damaged the reputation of brazilian head coaches.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Is he falling into the same trap as as ETH ( witrh Antony) with Dallot. Both are Portugese, so he plays Dallot. Kamason is 10 times the player Dallot is and can't get a game

The severe overhyping of academy players, because our first team squad is poor might be one of my least favorite aspects of our current situation.

 

[The Mitcher]

And hire who? Rince & repeat the same failing process over & over again. He might not be the answer but no manager can fix this shit that's for sure.

This is literally what every normal club does. They go through managers on average every two to three years. Stop pining for an Alex Ferguson/Busby figure, they are exceptions. United fans need to get it into their heads that the managers are not bigger than the clubs and are just as expendable as they view the players to be. It is normal to go through managers. Sometimes it might be even be necessary to go through several until the right ones are picked.

 

[Ezkay]

And hire who? Rince & repeat the same failing process over & over again. He might not be the answer but no manager can fix this shit that's for sure.

Why’s there this idea that there’s no manager out there capable of doing better than Amorim has done/can do better in the future? Just because you cannot pluck a name out doesn’t mean there isn’t any. You assume the clubs have a huge database in detail about every coach, guys we probably haven’t heard of. When we sign players they often turn out to be crap, does that mean we stop signing players? No, you go again and find better.

 

[The Mitcher]

Is he falling into the same trap as as ETH ( witrh Antony) with Dallot. Both are Portugese, so he plays Dallot. Kamason is 10 times the player Dallot is and can't get a game

Antony is Brazilian, not Portuguese.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

The answer is that there's a big natural variation in the output of mediocre players.

How many easy chances has Garnacho fecked up this season? He's missed more big chances than any other forward in the league. His shooting stats this season are catastrophically bad.

That's nothing to do with the manager, past or present.

Hojlund's issues might be more of a split between his lack of ability and the fact the team is playing so badly. He's fundamentally not good enough at football to be a lone striker at this level, so he'll never be a good fit for Amorim's system, but same goes for 4231 and 433 managers.

So to get you right.
Even last season Garnacho and Hojlund scoring 17 goals they were mediocre?

This season Garnacho and Hojlund having 5 goals, they are still mediocre..

So Garnacho and Hojlund have turned into prime mediocre in 8 months or the environment has turned them mediocre.

Also, if our young players are mediocre in scoring 17 goals between them, now they're scoring 5 goals between then, who is to blame for this drop.

And the opposite of it...

How come ETH was able to extract 17 goals between our mediocre players but Amorim is able to extract 5 goals only from them..

 

[dutchred]

The severe overhyping of academy players, because our first team squad is poor might be one of my least favorite aspects of our current situation.

It's not overhyping. It's we need to look at where our weeknesses are and addressing them. We can address them by buying (if we have funds) or looking at what we have in the youth. I follow all our youth teams and Kamason is one of the best prospects

 

[KStandBarmyArmy1993]

If it pays off in the summer, as in they're easier to sell because we loaned them out, who could argue?

Problem is we're all as fans entrenched in the here and now. The club are looking 6 months down the line.

Again, as I keep saying, the club is sacking off free lunches for staff to save a small amount of money.

A bad end to the season and finishing between 13th and 16th without a trophy would be a disaster and result in a huge drop in revenue.

So to get you right.
Even last season Garnacho and Hojlund scoring 17 goals they were mediocre?

This season Garnacho and Hojlund having 5 goals, they are still mediocre..

So Garnacho and Hojlund have turned into prime mediocre in 8 months or the environment has turned them mediocre.

Also, if our young players are mediocre in scoring 17 goals between them, now they're scoring 5 goals between then, who is to blame for this drop.

And the opposite of it...

How come ETH was able to extract 17 goals between our mediocre players but Amorim is able to extract 5 goals only from them..

Agree with most of this. Garnacho is only 20 ffs. He needs help, support and guidance like Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Neville had under Fergie. This environment isn't great for development.

 

[AndyMUFC]

I think with an in form Rashford and playing purely counter attacking football top 6 would be a possibility but what’s the point? We need to move away from that, and Ten Hag doubled down on it from his second season onwards which is another reason it was pointless continuing with him.

Obviously if Amorim gets sacked so be it, the results are terrible, but we need to stick with the possession football and sign some players that suit it regardless of who the manager is.

 

[hobbers]

So to get you right.
Even last season Garnacho and Hojlund scoring 17 goals they were mediocre?

This season Garnacho and Hojlund having 5 goals, they are still mediocre..

So Garnacho and Hojlund have turned into prime mediocre in 8 months or the environment has turned them mediocre.

Also, if our young players are mediocre in scoring 17 goals between them, now they're scoring 5 goals between then, who is to blame for this drop.

And the opposite of it...

How come ETH was able to extract 17 goals between our mediocre players but Amorim is able to extract 5 goals only from

Stop trying to turn everything into a stupid dichotomy.

Mediocre players have purple patches. Mediocre players can score lots one season and get quickly found out and nullified the next.

We’ve seen plenty of examples of this in past united forwards going from Rashford back to Javier Hernandez.

 

[Mike Smalling]

So to get you right.
Even last season Garnacho and Hojlund scoring 17 goals they were mediocre?

This season Garnacho and Hojlund having 5 goals, they are still mediocre..

Absolutely, yes.

How come ETH was able to extract 17 goals between our mediocre players but Amorim is able to extract 5 goals only from them..

How come ETH was only able to extract 3 goals from them in 9 Premier League games this season?
How come ETH was able to extract 17 league goals from Rashford in 22/23, but then only 7 in 23/24? Did ETH purposefully turn Rashford mediocre from one season to the next?!

 

[Sanchez7]

Is he falling into the same trap as as ETH ( witrh Antony) with Dallot. Both are Portugese, so he plays Dallot. Kamason is 10 times the player Dallot is and can't get a game

No opinion on Kamason, but 10 times the player Dalot is? A portugese international. You must be having a laugh.

 

[rimaldo]

So to get you right.
Even last season Garnacho and Hojlund scoring 17 goals they were mediocre?

This season Garnacho and Hojlund having 5 goals, they are still mediocre..

So Garnacho and Hojlund have turned into prime mediocre in 8 months or the environment has turned them mediocre.

Also, if our young players are mediocre in scoring 17 goals between them, now they're scoring 5 goals between then, who is to blame for this drop.

And the opposite of it...

How come ETH was able to extract 17 goals between our mediocre players but Amorim is able to extract 5 goals only from them..

football is ever changing and evolving. what works one season might not work the next. it’s clear we move the ball too slowly, we run too slowly and every other team in the league doesn’t. we’re only not bottom because the level of our players is high enough to get us out of trouble often enough to scrape enough points together to beat the teams who have been assembled on a shoestring.

amorim wants us to play similarly to how psg played yesterday. you can maybe blame him that he hasn’t managed to get through to the players, but i don’t think you can say his system or the type of football he wants to play isn’t how modern football is currently. we’re shite because of decades of mismanagement.

amorim isn’t an instant fix for that. no manager is. the issue is if amorim has lost all belief from the players that will end up being here long term, and if results are good enough to give him the opportunity to get the right players in. and we’re not talking the right players for his system, we’re talking the right players for premier league football 2024/2025 and beyond.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It's not overhyping. It's we need to look at where our weeknesses are and addressing them. We can address them by buying (if we have funds) or looking at what we have in the youth. I follow all our youth teams and Kamason is one of the best prospects

It absolutely is overhyping. You've never seen Kamason in a first team game against grown-up opposition, because he's never played in one. It's Football Manager brain to assume he can just be plugged in and perform.

We can agree that Dalot isn't great, but at least he is available and has good physical ability to cover his side of the pitch. He's got experience and has played many games with the rest of the defenders. Putting in an 18 year old with no PL experience and no games with the rest of the backline is not solving anything.

 

[Socratic]

I think the choice was, "you join now or never". That's an ultimatum which isn't much better than the way you're defining forced.

The motivation behind this ultimatum by Berrada to Amorim is becoming harder to fathom.

Why now or never if we were going to write the season off in the manner we've done?
If we were not planning on writing the season off then why appoint a manager who told them he needed a squad full of new players to be successful in the only form of football he would try and play?

 

[dutchred]

No opinion on Kamason, but 10 times the player Dalot is? A portugese international. You must be having a laugh.

I'm not laughing. Been Following United since Bent was our right bank in the late fifties and I sill believe Dalot is the worst RB i've ever seen at United. I even remeber when we played John Fitzpatrick at right back an even he was better than Dalot

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Stop trying to turn everything into a stupid dichotomy.

Mediocre players have purple patches. Mediocre players can score lots one season and get quickly found out and nullified the next.

We’ve seen plenty of examples of this in past united forwards going from Rashford back to Javier Hernandez.

Stupid dichotomy.

Waaaaooooh

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Absolutely, yes.

How come ETH was only able to extract 3 goals from them in 9 Premier League games this season?
How come ETH was able to extract 17 league goals from Rashford in 22/23, but then only 7 in 23/24? Did ETH purposefully turn Rashford mediocre from one season to the next?!

And Amorim has extracted 2 goals more since then from them.

Last season the team was extremely wrong setup. Alot of us said it here. And rightly so, results vindicated us.

So yes, ETH last season tactics made Rashford worse. Rightly so, ETH was sacked because the got the team poorer.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

football is ever changing and evolving. what works one season might not work the next. it’s clear we move the ball too slowly, we run too slowly and every other team in the league doesn’t. we’re only not bottom because the level of our players is high enough to get us out of trouble often enough to scrape enough points together to beat the teams who have been assembled on a shoestring.

amorim wants us to play similarly to how psg played yesterday. you can maybe blame him that he hasn’t managed to get through to the players, but i don’t think you can say his system or the type of football he wants to play isn’t how modern football is currently. we’re shite because of decades of mismanagement.

amorim isn’t an instant fix for that. no manager is. the issue is if amorim has lost all belief from the players that will end up being here long term, and if results are good enough to give him the opportunity to get the right players in. and we’re not talking the right players for his system, we’re talking the right players for premier league football 2024/2025 and beyond.

I get you...

This season.. we did get results at Anfield and Etihad.

General consensus in here is OUR PLAYERS raises the game against good teams.
So in tandem, this means we have CAPABLE players who can get results at Anfield and Etihad.
This also negates the narrative of we have poor players, because they can raise their game and get results.

 

[rimaldo]

I get you...

This season.. we did get results at Anfield and Etihad.

General consensus in here is OUR PLAYERS raises the game against good teams.
So in tandem, this means we have CAPABLE players who can get results at Anfield and Etihad.
This also negates the narrative of we have poor players, because they can raise their game and get results.

we’re capable of beating anyone on our day. there’s a big element of lacking confidence which would see us get over the line in more matches. fernandes, garnacho can score a goal from nowhere. our defenders and keeper can put in great performances, but we’ve been “moments fc,” “one man team,” “vibes fc,” for years. this has followed managers. the club is rotten and the players aren’t quite equipped for what’s been needed at any stage.

ten hag needed booting for buying the likes of antony and onana, and we had no discernible style of play. it’s clear what amorim is doing with us and i’m not sure it’s drastically different to what barcelona are doing, psg, real madrid etc. we just need players who are aggressive and positive with the ball and can run all day. that’s not casemiro, eriksen, zirkzee, dalot, or mazroui.

 

[El-Manos]

This is literally what every normal club does. They go through managers on average every two to three years. Stop pining for an Alex Ferguson/Busby figure, they are exceptions. United fans need to get it into their heads that the managers are not bigger than the clubs and are just as expendable as they view the players to be. It is normal to go through managers. Sometimes it might be even be necessary to go through several until the right ones are picked.

Why’s there this idea that there’s no manager out there capable of doing better than Amorim has done/can do better in the future? Just because you cannot pluck a name out doesn’t mean there isn’t any. You assume the clubs have a huge database in detail about every coach, guys we probably haven’t heard of. When we sign players they often turn out to be crap, does that mean we stop signing players? No, you go again and find better.

They have signed basically all the young talent in the world. That midfield is ridiculous.

ye do realise we’ve gone though about 10 managers since Ferguson and not one of them has been successful. Would that not make you wonder that the manager isn’t the main problem?

 

[The Mitcher]

ye do realise we’ve gone though about 10 managers since Ferguson and not one of them has been successful. Would that not make you wonder that the manager isn’t the main problem?

It's 8 actually. That is not normal, most clubs will have gone through more than that.

 

[RedSky]

Hojlund is being propped up by his unbelievable 6 game run last season. We're using him as a starter right now. If you look at the game's he started in the PL you get this breakdown:

​

Grouping​	Starts​	Mins​	Goals​	Assists​	MP G+A​
All Games​	41​	3274​	10​	2​	273mins​
Purple Patch​	6​	529​	7​	2​	59mins​
Remainder​	35​	2745​	3​	0​	915mins​

Unfortunately, he's been highly mediocre for us long term. Decent in Europe, awful in the PL and certainly not ready to lead the line for us. This notion that we can wave a magic wand and he'll suddenly turn incredible is false and frankly, delusional.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

How come ETH was only able to extract 3 goals from them in 9 Premier League games this season?

Hojlund missed the first four games and was a late substitute in the next two. He only started 3 full PL games for Ten Hag this season, in which he scored 1 goal.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I laughed.