Then fans can't complain when the club have a horrendous summer window because of PSR and the exclusion of increased revenue due to European competition placement.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Then fans can't complain when the club have a horrendous summer window because of PSR and the exclusion of increased revenue due to European competition placement.
Exactly what any good manager is supposed to do. He hasn't improved any of the players he'll need to use next season either. He'd be fired under at any club in the world on a run of results like this regardless. The only thing that might keep him in a job is we are broke and SJR and Omar B might want to double down and give him the start of next season and a few quid but I fear it's not going to make a difference
I have not been blown away by Amorim but the squad is full of players who should never have been signed in the first place (Hojlund, Mount, Onana, Zirkzee) or who should have been sold long ago (Lindelof, Casemiro, Eriksen).
He is not the problem for me. We are simply trying to sift through years of mismanagement and abominable transfer dealings.
It was easier for me to believe that a number of seasons ago. The continued mistakes we make with investments in the squad don't give me confidence that prize money is the solution.
There's also the concern that enough of the CL money even filters through to the squad building.
Winning would be nice but it should not detract from the big picture. Like last season - winning the FA Cup should not have saved ETHs job.
He’s clearly hinting that INEOS have given him a get out of jail free card and are focusing on rebuilding the squad, or open heart surgery as Rangnick said. Amorim is going nowhere any time soon.
It's interesting to see this as the takeaway.
A number of years ago, the Europa League was a stain of mediocrity. Sevilla have won it the most of anyone at all. But they're not a consistent Champions League or La Liga contender. If we're setting our sights there as Manchester United fans the club is not just knocked off it's perch, we've officially swapped with Manchester City. What a wicked reality.
Judging him now is really unfair. If we can get 2-3 good signings for his system in the summer, we can evaluate mid season next year. It's been a shitshow since Sir Alex left, so what's another year.
This is the mentality that led to us extending Ten Hags contract. A catastrophic decision.
It's absolutely ludicrous to see the same thought process growing inside so many of the posters.
spot on
He can't catch a break at the moment. Why are Maguire and Ugarte unavailable?
Luck so far:
Stand out player in Amad out for the season
Martinez who seemed to be regaining form - out for an year
Mainoo out injured
Mount injury - no return date
Shaw minor setback - no return date
Dorgu gets sent off - 3 match ban 2.5 game into his United career
Bayindir out after Arsenal heroics
Collyer - was providing much needed energy in midfield - nope, out injured
Evans - inured
Rashford/Antony loaned out with no replacements due to FFP!?
Luck so far:
Stand out player in Amad out for the season
Martinez who seemed to be regaining form - out for an year
Mainoo out injured
Mount injury - no return date
Shaw minor setback - no return date
Dorgu gets sent off - 3 match ban 2.5 game into his United career
Bayindir out after Arsenal heroics
Collyer - was providing much needed energy in midfield - nope, out injured
Evans - inured
Rashford/Antony loaned out with no replacements due to FFP!?
Have said this countless times and I agree with our head coach. Improve the performances first and build some consistency. The cups and trophies will come.
Unfortunately we're having to deal with years of mismanagement and dodgy transfer dealings so there's a bit of a setback to the rebuild but it will come. Be patient.
I do wish he would talk less.
Berge is one of those players that flies under the radar a bit. He can be at a top four PL club. I was in favour of trying to get him and Ugarte.
He’s obviously focusing on winning games and will prepare for each game as he normally would. He’s not sat in his office watching YouTube scouting comps instead of coaching. But he’s obviously saying that it is more important that we start improving and building for the long term, and he’s not wrong. He’s still going to give it his best shot in the EL.
Yep. I get that nobody wants to hear the 'bad luck' stuff but everything than can go wrong has gone wrong.
I just hope he gets that. Obviously barring winning the EL we are not going to be in Europe next season and we are going to finish in the bottom half in all probability.
But yeah, he needs a right wing back (Quenda), a striker and ideally another central midfielder.
One positive has been the fact that we have been pro active in shipping out players like Sancho and Rashford who are never going to buy into any rebuild.
He needs a RWB, 2 CB (to replace Martinez and Lidelof), 2 CMs (replacements for Eriksen and Casemiro), at least 1 nunber 10 (to replace Rashford), and a decent striker
What managers have ever got a "get out of jail free card" in history? Let alone a club of this magnitude. It's just not the reality is it, no matter what he hints at. You still need to stay offloat, not sink to the bottom of the ocean.
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People going mad over those Europa League comments is just typical Caf. 
There is nothing wrong with those comments, relax.
There is nothing wrong with those comments, relax.
Di Maria vibes.
If you consider that INEOS didn’t approach him initially in the summer because they one our squad didn’t suit him, and that he’s almost did us a favour by joining early, don’t you think he’d have got some assurances about him being given time to work with them and build something he can work with? I can almost guarantee it’s the first thing he and his agent sought assurances over, because Amorim and INEOS knew it wasn’t a good fit and it was incredibly poor timing for him to take it on.
That would be ideal but I doubt we will see him making a complete overhaul like that.
I've seen an extended cut off that interview. Where he took out a tactical board, put the players in a 4-3-3 and spat on it, while saying "suck it MU fans". While also stating that he will ruin the club by buying only players that can play 3-4-3 and nothing else. Think he called it the, "specific players" League that he had sent scouts to, to find these players. So no wonder people are going mad.People going mad over those Europa League comments is just typical Caf.
There is nothing wrong with those comments, relax.
Nobody really knows how much impact a CL entry would have on our budget anyways. Thats the thing, obviously something would be better than nothing but it feels a lot like people are just thoughtlessly adding more and more pressure to the pressure cooker as if thats in any way shape or form would help the situation. Stuff is only going to get more and more destructive and then we will be in limbo once again. If internally, Amorim isn't achieving his objectives for this season, then the club has to take the consequences and part ways. But lets not hype up a some EL games as if this competition would change the fate of this club. Hysteria is a real and feels like many are on the brink of it.
Not per se, but of course there are scenarios where it makes more sense to go down a reliable route to at least have something to lean on while avoiding leaving the comfort zone. I see your point but I honestly think, it doesn't apply to United because we are so far back behind the pack. Not only do we have an injury issue right now, we also have a recruitment issue for the last 10 years. But even thats not all of it, because while football evolved we continued to think that "finding the right players and let them cook" is a viable strategy.
I have been one of the more vocal critics of the club for a long time, because so many metrics over time indicated that we weren't improving, not evolving. Even in times where results were alright.
None of that makes Amorim a better coach of course. And yes, maybe he isn't the right guy. But at some point, we have to acknowledge where we are and bear the immediate pain. As written more than once - we aren't failing because ETHs system was flawed or because Amorims ideas are crazy exotic - we are failing because we don't work as hard as most of our rivals and we don't act as smart on the pitch as most of our opponents. We considered athleticism to be not important and we allowed attitude issues to erode the core of the team.
I agree, not sure whether intentional but this piling on the EL seems nothing but accelerating a boom bust circle. At first we increase the pressure only to be allowed to be more vile and shorttempered when the results aren't what is expected.
Thats a great way to describe it. Boom bust cycle that's incredibly costly to the club. I worry we don't have many more that we can handle.
If I look back at the first few seasons after SAF left we were looking at a bust being 6th or 7th place. Which tends to be quite normal for big clubs in the grand scheme. One season like that before recouping.
But we've been trending towards relegation form and bottom half. Felt like that towards the end of Solskjaers time. And of course ETH left us in 13th
And a decent goalie & that's the bare minimum.
Respectfully, I don’t think it could have been articulated any better. Fact of the matter is - a CL entry and subsequent revenue would be better than otherwise - the question/argument wasn’t about a sliding scale so it should just be left there - “something is better than nothing” - rather than pontifications about “how much of an impact”, no?
I’m not really sure of what you’re saying here so I’ll just say; I disagree. The notion that you can’t build long-term whilst attempting and/or being fully committed to winning the cups that you’re in (as established by the premise of the post you replied to) - especially so when we have a decent shout at it - and could facilitate said long-term building is ridiculous in my opinion. I appreciate your attempt to engage/articulate your view - and it’s likely a deficit on my end - but we will not agree nor see eye to eye on this if you think otherwise.
I do agree there was undoubtedly assurances, how deep those assurances actually go are another thing though, was relegation form and poor showings in the cups part of that? I don't buy the get out of jail free card angle anyway.
I completely agree. It’s incredibly frustrating to listen to the mentality of some sections of the fan base, and equally frustrating in trying to educate them on the folly of their thinking.
Last year we were so bad, after two years of building under ETH, setting all sorts of negative records, and frankly performances and data metrics were even worse than results. But then one cup win and many pivoted and used it as a reason to retain support for the manager. Despite overwhelming evidence that this was a mistake. Prior to the final, all polls showed the significant majority of fans were in favour of him being sacked, after the game the poll swung the other way - as though it was evidence of progress, when every available data set pointed towards a containing downward curve the next season.
Ineos, I assume and believe, bowed to this overwhelming fan pressure, and kept ETH on. And it was a huge mistake. The evident logical reasoning bore through as accurate, and the team achieved the results the data suggested they would. Very, very poor results. By this point we had already done further ETH driven recruitment, albeit recruitment with more coherency to a wider strategic vision.
Now we are at the beginning of a massive rebuild of the squad and a complete overhaul of the cultural and competitive environment of the club. A process that will take time and patience. To hang that process on the outcome of any knockout competition is absurd, and indeed indicative of the same flawed thinking of the last decade or more. The vision and judgement of success has to be judged against completely different metrics.
He has a get out of jail free card until he’s had some influence on the make up of the squad at least.
It's not just being hung on the Europa though is it. If he was keeping us afloat in the PL, winning back to back fixtures at least here or there none of us would be even having this discussion. It's hanging on poor showings across the board pretty much. It just so happens that the Europa is our last chance of salvaging any dignity from this season and Amorims tenure so far.
The cult around this guy is something else… it’s worse than Rangnick, and at least that guy had the excuse of just being interim to get away with saying mental things constantly and turning in consistently awful performances from day one.
Can anyone name one thing he has done to improve us on the pitch since he took over? One thing which might suggest we mortgage the future of the club against his one style of playing?
Can anyone name one thing he has done to improve us on the pitch since he took over? One thing which might suggest we mortgage the future of the club against his one style of playing?
We have not improved even 1%
Let me try it differently: I think it is absolutely valid to ask the manager to go for every trophy that is there. Especially in our situation where the trophy is more or less everything we could play for. What I think is wrong though, is partnering this (le me call it positive, competitive) expectation with some "either that or your gone" attitude, that is anything but positive.
I didn't say it is impossible per se to to build longterm while maintaining a certain level of success. I said that in our specific case it is even more difficult to do so. As said - there were so many indicators there that we were trending downwards, long before there was even talk of Amorim. And again, I think expecting the team to have a proper go at the opportunities it has is absolutely legit and fine, my struggles start where people cross the line not just hoping for positive performances but to expect positive results in one-off games.
We don't know what happened behind closed doors. I agree, we should have parted ways with ETH but at the same time, I was adamant in saying "getting rid only for the sake of getting rid doesn't make sense, you need a plan". From what I understood, none of the candidates were convincing enough. No question though, sticking to ETH only to get rid of him a few month later even though nothing really changed, was fickle and reactionary. Unfortunately this seems to become a proud tradition.. which is one of the reasons I am so worried seeing what is brewing within the fanbase yet again.
Agree wholeheartedly to the bolded part.
Don't agree on the part with the additional ETH driven recruitment. None of the players was a pure ETH prototype that has no use away from him.
JZ was a little to pricey and I personally thought we should avoid adding another young striker but one that could lift a bit of pressure from Hojlund but so young and at that price, it isn't the end of the world.
De Ligt is a good defender in terms of natural talent, physical state and ability to play the ball. He also came at a good price, I personally don't see him not fitting in the team under any coach.
Mazraoui was cheap, a good player that we got for a good price. He isn't a wingback, sure, but who knows, maybe he turns out a right CB. For the price, this isn't any damage done.
Ugarte is a mobile midfielder with decent passing ability for his expected role, great physicality and a decent skillset to play in modern midfields. No damage done.
None of them would have been my personal choices I guess but I don't think, any of them were obvious mistakes or un-recyclebar under a different coach. Obviously, other profiles may have been more important under a different manager but I think, thats a different issue than outright saying the recruitment was a complete waste of time.
None of this has anything to do with the post you replied to - hence my confusion.
CL entry and revenue would improve our financial situation. Building long term whilst attempting to and/or committing to winning cup competitions aren’t mutually exclusive.
There was nothing said about “positive” stances and “either this or gone” nor about how hard it is to do xyz. Your post read as though it was presented with caveats to simple statements when it’s in fact having entirely different discussion points.
Ten Hag has several injuries to deal with and is forced to play Kambwala and Casemiro at CB.
The caf: "He should still be winning games with the squad available and there's no excuse for his awful tactics"
Amorim has several injuries to deal with.
The caf: "He has been so unlucky with injuries. How is he supposed to do anything with the current squad at his disposal?"
I think it’s simple, if he, Wilcox and Berrada are all on the same page as to why is not working and what is still needed, then he’ll be given time.
I think there will be an acceptance at the club that, no matter who the coach is, this team needs a decent revamp. There’s a reason SJR said everyone is for sale, you don’t say that about a squad you have faith in.
Also repeated injuries under Ten Hag was Ten Jag's fault and repeated injuries under this guy just bad luck, let's be clear people are making every excuse for this lad they were not willing to for others no wonder he gets a free pass from so many
And give up the opportunity to join United altogether? Come on, this is a really dumb take from you guys. He reluctantly took the job mid season because that was literally the only option he was given - blame United, not Amorim.
He wasn't forced, he could have told Berrada to feck off.