Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

croadyman said:
OK then so who is that manager then and please be realistic about it as well not suggestions like Alonso/Zidane/Simeone.
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Not sure why you get to tell me who I can or can't name... we should be able to attract anyone. Of course, I'd want Alonso or Simeone but what about Ancelotti or Luis Enrique? Or Flick or Xavi? Or Valverde? Allegri? Lippi? Even Mancini...

My point is the club should be looking for a boss who has proved himself big time, but it's not up to me to pick/hire him
 
stevoc said:
I don't remember anyone at the time saying ''Actually guys the quality of our squad has dropped from top 5-6 to bottom half because we sold Henderson, Bailly, Fred, Elanga, Telles and bought Mount, Onana and Hojlund'' :confused:
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But why does that matter? Obviously positive spins are put on new signings at the time, even if everyone thinks the signing is fecking awful (Mount) or have doubts (Onana and Hojlund).

How that summer was viewed at the time is irrelevant, because we can now clearly see all those positive spins were wrong. And we now know the levels of Casemiro, Shaw, Martinez, Eriksen, Rashford, Martial and Sancho collapse in 23/24. We should have replaced Casemiro and Shaw in that window and signed a proper striker.
 
saik said:
I still don't see what Amorim is trying to do with his formation. Another game where we're creating nothing—less than 0.5xG, and yet the opposition has over 2xG. We're incredibly fortunate to have gotten that draw. It’s all down to individual brilliance rather than anything resembling a cohesive system.

At least under Erik ten Hag, you could see what he was trying to do. High press forcing opponents into mistakes, full-backs inverting into midfield—there was a plan, even if it didn't work out.

Now, with Amorim, there’s no clarity. Ugarte’s being pushed to the right wing, players are constantly isolated with no passing options (I’ve seen this repeatedly, especially against Everton, where our players are swarmed by 3-4 opponents with no one nearby to help), Dalot plays as a wing-back but always inverts, Garnacho still plays as a left winger not as a left sided no.10 and Bruno is being moved around everywhere with no clear role.

We are a few months in and there’s been no sign of growth or any development in the system yet that would make me believe things will improve, even with new signings. It’s a complete and utter mess on the pitch.
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I agree. Aside from the formation it's still not clear what he wants to achieve. Playing Dorgu on the right in his first game seems weirder as we see more of him. Is Bruno a #8 or #10 for him? Is two DMs a tactical choice going forward? Does he rate Garnacho? Where do we create the overloads with defenders - CB steps in or WB overlaps? How do we press?
 
I'm pleased we got a point yesterday and I do have a feeling, strong feeling in fact, that this manager will be ok. I think he is learning how to be Man Utd manager, and what that means in terms of public perception. I also think slowly, he is getting his methods, expectations etc through to players. Ugarte, Dorgu, Amad..these are looking like different players under Amorim. We all know he hasn't the quality at his disposal.

But he must, must keep his demeanor more positive, because this may cause him problems if he remains too negative. No one is expecting much this season, so he just needs to get a grip, get us a little organised, working hard, with a bit of pride, enjoyment, confidence, and bring some new blood in. That's all we ask.
 
saik said:
I still don't see what Amorim is trying to do with his formation. Another game where we're creating nothing—less than 0.5xG, and yet the opposition has over 2xG. We're incredibly fortunate to have gotten that draw. It’s all down to individual brilliance rather than anything resembling a cohesive system.

At least under Erik ten Hag, you could see what he was trying to do. High press forcing opponents into mistakes, full-backs inverting into midfield—there was a plan, even if it didn't work out.

Now, with Amorim, there’s no clarity. Ugarte’s being pushed to the right wing, players are constantly isolated with no passing options (I’ve seen this repeatedly, especially against Everton, where our players are swarmed by 3-4 opponents with no one nearby to help), Dalot plays as a wing-back but always inverts, Garnacho still plays as a left winger not as a left sided no.10 and Bruno is being moved around everywhere with no clear role.

We are a few months in and there’s been no sign of growth or any development in the system yet that would make me believe things will improve, even with new signings. It’s a complete and utter mess on the pitch.
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Agreed. It might be that the players are too bad for us to see his plan or that there’s no plan. I personally have no idea how we are meant to create chances consistently with the setup/tactics.

That said though, I never quite got what ETH was trying to do either.
 
Marwood said:
But that's what you want and need from your CB's whatever the formation right? If you want to win the biggest tournaments anyway.

No top team is targeting CB's who are poor athletes and poor on the ball.
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So why hire a manager who uses 3 CBs when we don't have the players for it?
 
Amira said:
Agreed. It might be that the players are too bad for us to see his plan or that there’s no plan. I personally have no idea how we are meant to create chances consistently with the setup/tactics.

That said though, I never quite got what ETH was trying to do either.
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ETH bought Mount to play in a 4141. It exposed us when the high press failed.

Amorim's system won't work either, unless he gets 5 top players.
 
Adnan said:
Passing the ball isn't Højlund's issue and he completes more passes than Haaland, Osimhen and many other more established strikers in comparison. You talk about his hold up play when his hold up play was something that had to be developed when we bought him. He was a young striker who thrived by receiving progressive passes from the back at Atalanta in a system that was geared up to sacrifice defensive stability for goals where Gasperini's strategy was to commit a high volume of players in the final third and Højlund attacked the half spaces. We don't see that at United and unsurprisingly to me the difference between how Atalanta approached the game and how we approach the game is dictated by the players who occupy the first two lines. Atalanta in comparison were at the time a far better team at pressing the ball from the back and into midfield and backed up the high press by having a commendable rest defense where the CBs and deeper midfielders controlled the defensive transition in a higher line at a better level than we could.

The question you should be asking is that why do our forwards have as few touches in the opponent's box in comparison to our rivals who seem to be camped in the opponent's half. And the answer to that is that those teams have a very strong build up phase from deeper and can also extinguish the counter threat in a higher line which enables their forwards to press with efficiency from the front.

Højlund may or may not be the answer long term but without correcting the deficiencies in the system it won't allow any striker to develop or perform to his potential ability.
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This is so true other teams get goals because pressure pulls the defenders around, our play is almost always in front of a set back line and then we are unable to get more pressure because of the disconnect between the back line to the midfield and the midfield to the strikers most of the time in the box there is only 1 or 2 players which means you have to be super precise with everything and then when the play breaks down our pressing and disconnections just means the opposing team are able to get out and counter or have easy possession
 
I’d like to think when Amorim came on board, he and the hierarchy agreed that this season was write-off and finishing above 9th-10th in the league this season would be a bonus.

The fact he has kept to his system without yielding to go back to basics like ETH did (regardless of bad form), makes me believe that.

Plus his position is ‘head coach’ meaning he isnt as powerful as ‘manager’ might be, on top of the likes of Wilcox being involved and Berrada being hands on, means there may be something planned there.

Hopeful this is all short term pain for long term gain. They absolutely should know who needs to go, who can be worked on and who needs to be brought on by May. His one big signing Dorgu looked like an actual wing back, looked like he belonged in that Amorim system and carried threat yesterday.
 
Jeffthered said:
I'm pleased we got a point yesterday and I do have a feeling, strong feeling in fact, that this manager will be ok. I think he is learning how to be Man Utd manager, and what that means in terms of public perception. I also think slowly, he is getting his methods, expectations etc through to players. Ugarte, Dorgu, Amad..these are looking like different players under Amorim. We all know he hasn't the quality at his disposal.

But he must, must keep his demeanor more positive, because this may cause him problems if he remains too negative. No one is expecting much this season, so he just needs to get a grip, get us a little organised, working hard, with a bit of pride, enjoyment, confidence, and bring some new blood in. That's all we ask.
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For those who say there has been no improvement Amad and Ugarte are perfect examples of two players who have raised their game under Amorim.

I think you are also correct to mention his demeanor. I don't think Amorim has fully come to terms with what it means to be Manchester United manager. We are the devils. The media use us to their capitalist goals. We have the most fans and drive the largest engagement. The media is not his friend. His comments will be taken and spun and he doesn't need to give them soundbites. The bolded requires elite communication and decision making. He needs to get his message across and have the players on board.
 
Desert Eagle said:
For those who say there has been no improvement Amad and Ugarte are perfect examples of two players who have raised their game under Amorim.

I think you are also correct to mention his demeanor. I don't think Amorim has fully come to terms with what it means to be Manchester United manager. We are the devils. The media use us to their capitalist goals. We have the most fans and drive the largest engagement. The media is not his friend. His comments will be taken and spun and he doesn't need to give them soundbites. The bolded requires elite communication and decision making. He needs to get his message across and have the players on board.
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I like what you put to be fair. I'm hoping with a few signings he wants and knows will work, that will be the turn around.
 
Desert Eagle said:
For those who say there has been no improvement Amad and Ugarte are perfect examples of two players who have raised their game under Amorim.

I think you are also correct to mention his demeanor. I don't think Amorim has fully come to terms with what it means to be Manchester United manager. We are the devils. The media use us to their capitalist goals. We have the most fans and drive the largest engagement. The media is not his friend. His comments will be taken and spun and he doesn't need to give them soundbites. The bolded requires elite communication and decision making. He needs to get his message across and have the players on board.
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Ugarte was barely playing before him and was bedding in as a new transfer. Small sample to judge against and even then he's been hooked at 60 mins in phases for Collyer.
 
Chairman Steve said:
I’d like to think when Amorim came on board, he and the hierarchy agreed that this season was write-off and finishing above 9th-10th in the league this season would be a bonus.

The fact he has kept to his system without yielding to go back to basics like ETH did (regardless of bad form), makes me believe that.

Plus his position is ‘head coach’ meaning he isnt as powerful as ‘manager’ might be, on top of the likes of Wilcox being involved and Berrada being hands on, means there may be something planned there.

Hopeful this is all short term pain for long term gain. They absolutely should know who needs to go, who can be worked on and who needs to be brought on by May. His one big signing Dorgu looked like an actual wing back, looked like he belonged in that Amorim system and carried threat yesterday.
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There isn't a "system" though. All he does is play a 3 atb/5atb. That is a "shape", not a system. A system is more than just a shape.

What is he aiming for? One touch passes? Cycle possession? Soak up pressure and counter? Pressing? If we are able to spot one of these or others I haven't mentioned, that would be a "system". Plonking 3 CBs each time is not it.

We haven't seen any system or identity under Amorim. All the wins have been due to individual quality or moments, just like under Ten Hag.
 
It is incredible that those with input into the football side at Utd allowed Ten Hag to build a squad with so little mobility and running power. What the actual feck.
 
Bobski said:
It is incredible that those with input into the football side at Utd allowed Ten Hag to build a squad with so little mobility and running power. What the actual feck.
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Even more incredible that he said Pep had underestimated the physicality of the league when he first arrived. And this is what he came up with!
 
Leftback99 said:
Even more incredible that he said Pep had underestimated the physicality of the league when he first arrived. And this is what he came up with!
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Have no faith in Ineos after they botched sacking Ten Hag, in reality he should have never have made it past Halloween in his second season, that long drawn out death then allowing him to bring in more players for his system. Just inept.

Amorin is doing a shit job so far, but Utd have him given him a terrible situation to come into.
 
Bobski said:
Have no faith in Ineos after they botched sacking Ten Hag, in reality he should have never have made it past Halloween in his second season, that long drawn out death then allowing him to bring in more players for his system. Just inept.

Amorin is doing a shit job so far, but Utd have him given him a terrible situation to come into.
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Yeah I lost any confidence in them last summer when many were rejoicing at him staying.

The summer signings and reading how we're still years behind everyone else on the analytics side doesn't give any confidence we'll get recruitment right any time soon.
 
hobbers said:
But why does that matter? Obviously positive spins are put on new signings at the time, even if everyone thinks the signing is fecking awful (Mount) or have doubts (Onana and Hojlund).

How that summer was viewed at the time is irrelevant, because we can now clearly see all those positive spins were wrong. And we now know the levels of Casemiro, Shaw, Martinez, Eriksen, Rashford, Martial and Sancho collapse in 23/24. We should have replaced Casemiro and Shaw in that window and signed a proper striker.
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Because virtually no one was thinking it for pretty much all last season and probably most of this season. Most people fell into two camps last season you either thought we were struggling mostly because of injuries or you thought we were mostly struggling because of the ineffective style of play Ten Hag was trying to implement. I imagine practically no one was suggesting the squad quality had dropped to bottom half of the league quality over the space of one transfer window. I can't recall anyone saying after the summer window just gone either.

That opinion has only popped up recently because of the position the club currently finds itself in because of the continuation of Ten Hag's struggles and the problems posed trying to adapt to a new formation since Amorims arrival. People also forget that since 2022 these players have clearly been poorly coached under Ten Hag's tenure. We looked the most uncoached side in the league last season.
 
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Our footballing intelligence is dreadful, work rate too, was the same under ETH, untill we improve that, we'll continue to struggle under any manager, 2 goals yday prime example
 
I think Amorim is way way out of his depth in the Prem. His tactics are not adaptable enough and leaves midfield totally exposed. But despite the failures he is doing a King Canute and won't change a thing. It is desperately naive and while a likeable guy, verging on arrogance.
But the execs knew what they were getting and still went with it. If Ashworth was to blame for keeping Ten Hag and paid the price by being sacked, whose heads will roll for the Amorim mess.
 
Table since he took over. It's grim.

u216c773hxke1.jpeg
 
Shane88 said:
Table since he took over. It's grim.

u216c773hxke1.jpeg
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Thats quite damning, especially when 9 of our points came curtousy of a late goal from a deflected shot against Fulham, 3 stoppage time goals against a bottom of the table Southampton side that played off our own pitch for 80+ minutes, and an extremely lucky win over City.
 
Shane88 said:
Table since he took over. It's grim.

u216c773hxke1.jpeg
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He’s been terrible. Not sure how it is even debatable at this point.

In recent seasons we’ve finished, 8th, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 3rd. Since he’s come in we’re 17th.

Genuine question for all the people who seem to absolve him of any blame and say it’s because the players are shit. How were these same players coming in 2nd, 3rd, 6th?

Are they relegation standard players who massively overperformed under Ole & Ten Hag? Which means Ole & Ten Hag actually did remarkably good jobs and should be brought back. Or are they significantly better than relegation standard and Amorim is doing terribly?
 
limerickcitykid said:
He’s been terrible. Not sure how it is even debatable at this point.

In recent seasons we’ve finished, 8th, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 3rd. Since he’s come in we’re 17th.

Genuine question for all the people who seem to absolve him of any blame and say it’s because the players are shit. How were these same players coming in 2nd, 3rd, 6th?

Are they relegation standard players who massively overperformed under Ole & Ten Hag? Which means Ole & Ten Hag actually did remarkably good jobs and should be brought back. Or are they significantly better than relegation standard and Amorim is doing terribly?
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They aren't the same players though. Most of the squad that finished second with Ole are now gone.
 
saik said:
I still don't see what Amorim is trying to do with his formation. Another game where we're creating nothing—less than 0.5xG, and yet the opposition has over 2xG. We're incredibly fortunate to have gotten that draw. It’s all down to individual brilliance rather than anything resembling a cohesive system.

At least under Erik ten Hag, you could see what he was trying to do. High press forcing opponents into mistakes, full-backs inverting into midfield—there was a plan, even if it didn't work out.

Now, with Amorim, there’s no clarity. Ugarte’s being pushed to the right wing, players are constantly isolated with no passing options (I’ve seen this repeatedly, especially against Everton, where our players are swarmed by 3-4 opponents with no one nearby to help), Dalot plays as a wing-back but always inverts, Garnacho still plays as a left winger not as a left sided no.10 and Bruno is being moved around everywhere with no clear role.

We are a few months in and there’s been no sign of growth or any development in the system yet that would make me believe things will improve, even with new signings. It’s a complete and utter mess on the pitch.
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Someone correct me if I’m wrong but is this tactical move to create space due to Everton man marking?
 
The Mitcher said:
They aren't the same players though. Most of the squad that finished second with Ole are now gone.
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It is 90% the same squad that came 8th last year and was derided as a terrible result. 9 positions higher than 17th.

9 of the 10 most played players in 22/23 that came 3rd were all available to Amorim. (The other being De Gea who was essentially hounded out of the club by fans)

So did Ten Hag have those players playing out of their skin or is Amorim making them worse?
 
limerickcitykid said:
It is 90% the same squad that came 8th last year and was derided as a terrible result. 9 positions higher than 17th.

9 of the 10 most played players in 22/23 that came 3rd were all available to Amorim. (The other being De Gea who was essentially hounded out of the club by fans)

So did Ten Hag have those players playing out of their skin or is Amorim making them worse?
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Can you list the players who finished 2nd who are still here now?
 
limerickcitykid said:
He’s been terrible. Not sure how it is even debatable at this point.

In recent seasons we’ve finished, 8th, 3rd, 6th, 2nd, 3rd. Since he’s come in we’re 17th.

Genuine question for all the people who seem to absolve him of any blame and say it’s because the players are shit. How were these same players coming in 2nd, 3rd, 6th?

Are they relegation standard players who massively overperformed under Ole & Ten Hag? Which means Ole & Ten Hag actually did remarkably good jobs and should be brought back. Or are they significantly better than relegation standard and Amorim is doing terribly?
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because they’re not the same players.
Also, We used to have players who could score. Then eth arrived.
 
Grave Robber said:
There isn't a "system" though. All he does is play a 3 atb/5atb. That is a "shape", not a system. A system is more than just a shape.

What is he aiming for? One touch passes? Cycle possession? Soak up pressure and counter? Pressing? If we are able to spot one of these or others I haven't mentioned, that would be a "system". Plonking 3 CBs each time is not it.

We haven't seen any system or identity under Amorim. All the wins have been due to individual quality or moments, just like under Ten Hag.
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If only there wasn’t multiple seasons of success at Sporting where you can identify his system.
 
limerickcitykid said:
9 of the 10 most played players in 22/23 that came 3rd were all available to Amorim. (The other being De Gea who was essentially hounded out of the club by fans)
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So you're another one who clearly doesn't understand the concept of time. Or counting.

The 10 most played players in 22/23:

Bruno - available
Dalot - available

---------------------------

Eriksen - unfit, contract expiring
Casemiro - unfit
Rashford - toxic, publicly asked to leave
Martinez - injured, career probably over
Shaw - career over
De Gea - gone
Fred - gone
Sancho - gone


"9 of 10" huh?

Not in the top 10 but also key players that season were McTominay, Martial and Varane, also all gone.
 
limerickcitykid said:
It is 90% the same squad that came 8th last year and was derided as a terrible result. 9 positions higher than 17th.

9 of the 10 most played players in 22/23 that came 3rd were all available to Amorim. (The other being De Gea who was essentially hounded out of the club by fans)

So did Ten Hag have those players playing out of their skin or is Amorim making them worse?
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You're deliberately being dishonest.
 
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