This is the prevailing thinking across Twitter but let's wait and watch. I think we're fine both physically and technically across CB, RWB, CM x2. I think we'll be fine - the composition of the front three needs to take into account physicality and technique.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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This is the prevailing thinking across Twitter but let's wait and watch. I think we're fine both physically and technically across CB, RWB, CM x2. I think we'll be fine - the composition of the front three needs to take into account physicality and technique.
Pessimistically?
Because Amorim will either have been sacked by that time or we will be desperately looking to replace him with the next hopeful.
I wish people would stop talking like every manager has had the same pool of players. ETH changed 75% of his squad so if he still had a squad that couldn’t play his way that’s on him as a coach.
Ineos keeping their options open if it doesnt work. There is a plus one year as well on Ineos. If Ruben has done well, even if its only got us playing to a good style, he will be given another 2/3 year contract I would think.
Just because another manager changed 75% of the squad it doesn't really mean anything does it?
If he's a good coach he will improve things but to what end?
Read what I was replying to for context
Exactly, I hope he won't fall into the age old trap of giving players countless chances to match his style or compromise too much to suit lazy players or those who lack the intensity required in his tactics.
I think we have around 5 or 6 players who can fit what he wants seamlessly whilst two or three could adjust. With a few months away from a proper window I hope he is ready to use the academy to fill out the missing profiles.
Weirdly I actually feel more confident/excited that we have elements in the squad that Amorim can work with tonight than I did about him destroying City with Sporting the other night.
Amad and Mount (if he could ever stay fit - unlikely) would actually be the perfect two for the double 10 if he plays that system. Both very capable inside and out and hard workers off the ball. Bruno I actually think he’ll use deeper or of course could play one of those roles if he’s gonna commit to staying there.
Mazraoui can play anywhere so think he’ll like him too. I think Rashford/Garnacho and the strikers are the square pegs in round holes. None of them naturally play the way he likes his forward players to - maybe Rasmus if he develops further
Mazraoui can play anywhere so think he’ll like him too. I think Rashford/Garnacho and the strikers are the square pegs in round holes. None of them naturally play the way he likes his forward players to - maybe Rasmus if he develops further
I think he will play Rashford as a striker because he is the only player who could score if found in position regularly. Agree about Mount and Amad, they are our best and most enthusiastic pressers so they could be very effective as inside forwards.
One things for sure, I don’t think the “let’s give him time to settle in” will be a narrative applied for Amorim. For better or worse he has come into United at a stage where we desperately need to see an impact on performances and style after all the investment. Amorim will have to hit the ground running - this isn’t going to be “a project”.
I believe so as well.
I think we have a solid core that can really step up. The likes of Onana, Mazroaui and De ligt have come in and looked quite good. Martinez, Dalot and Bruno are really good players who have unfortunately been out of form this year, but judging their careers as a whole, they definitely have what it takes to be at a club that is challenging.
Mainoo, Yoro and Garnacho are three of the best talents in world football.
Holjund and Diallo have shown really good qualities but have not been played in a system that lets them shine.
We have talent, we also have areas for improvement. But this side is levels better than where we currently are.
The issue is the lack of service to the striker. Not sure it will be his top priority until he fixes that problem
A couple of years is a tad optimistic.
Eth was the first manager post-Fergie that has had a team built close to his requirement. Every manager prior to him had to build with remnants from multiple regimes.
So it may take a while to undo all that
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We said the same thing with ETH. We all concluded that it would take at least 12-18 months before we see some real progression -- when he gets his players in and he gets to implement his philosophy.
Then he won the cup after a few months....
If he could make us tight at the back, press properly and attack with purpose then he is the man for the job. Millions of manchester united fans would love to see us go toe to toe once again. We have the means, we just need the leadership.
Exactly. You need to pin this to remind people of it.
Look at the state of the current squad. If we don't give him time to rebuild then it's just best to fire him now.
It took him 3 years to build a competitive Sporting and an extra year to make Sporting what it is today.
Granted that Sporting has fewer financial resources than Man Utd and had to sell some key players, but it takes time. It's not ideal because people are tired of waiting but things are what they are
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The midfield as always will be his biggest test, both at the base and in attack. Ruud is already trying to set it up and it was interesting to hear him say that what improved the team in the second half against PAOK, was that the players kept their positions better, especially the two tens.
Many, including Ruud, are obviously hinting that Bruno can thrive in that ten pair. I highly doubt it as his technically shortcomings in his touch, passing and dribbling will always leave the team toothless in attack and constantly on the backfoot with counters.
If one has to play Bruno, I actually think pushing him back in the six pair and forcing him to use his engine more in a disciplined manner could work. Then you can push Mainoo in the ten pair instead, while he also remains an alternative six for his development, and particular game requirements. So the following becomes a very interesting and capable midfield.
Many, including Ruud, are obviously hinting that Bruno can thrive in that ten pair. I highly doubt it as his technically shortcomings in his touch, passing and dribbling will always leave the team toothless in attack and constantly on the backfoot with counters.
If one has to play Bruno, I actually think pushing him back in the six pair and forcing him to use his engine more in a disciplined manner could work. Then you can push Mainoo in the ten pair instead, while he also remains an alternative six for his development, and particular game requirements. So the following becomes a very interesting and capable midfield.
Bruno Ugarte
Amad Mainoo
That way Casemiro becomes a rotation six for the time being, in games that will not be high intensity battles. Similarly, Eriksen rotating in the ten. Mount will would be battling for a spot in the ten provided he can stay fit.Amad Mainoo
Some great posts. And I've read a lot about the transformation under Amorim. It's obvious he took a massively underperforming team and turned them into champions which bodes well for his chances of repeating the same.
I'm just curious whether you (or anyone else in the know) could shed light on how quickly he managed the turnaround. This 343 that he almost exclusively plays. Were Sporting already playing that before he arrived. And if not how quickly was he able to implement it?
I think Amorim will be the bigger but more strategic gamble to take than ETH ever was
That's one of the issue but not the issue. A striker for a top club should be doing much more than what ours have been doing. They need to bring people into play, convert some half chances, hold the ball up & move up the play and generally be an outlet for the midfield & other attacking players. We are in urgent need of a top class striker if we have to become a better goal scoring team.
I think the first thing he can do to immediately improve this side is make everyone slow down a touch.
ten Hag wanted us to be direct, I think (?), and it came out not with players actually being direct but by doing everything in a rush. There were a number of times were players got in to good positions and then inexplicably tried to play first time passes, or burst into a sprint when there was no space and over ran the ball.
In general, all of our players expend awful lots of energy looking busy on the ball without doing much effective with it.
Just simply by coaching in a bit of composure and getting rid of ten Hag's frantic, careless nonsense I think we'll see players improve significantly on the ball very quickly.
ten Hag wanted us to be direct, I think (?), and it came out not with players actually being direct but by doing everything in a rush. There were a number of times were players got in to good positions and then inexplicably tried to play first time passes, or burst into a sprint when there was no space and over ran the ball.
In general, all of our players expend awful lots of energy looking busy on the ball without doing much effective with it.
Just simply by coaching in a bit of composure and getting rid of ten Hag's frantic, careless nonsense I think we'll see players improve significantly on the ball very quickly.
I actually see Amad as a wingback in his system.
He did that "transformation" sucessfully with Geny Catamo in Sporting and I see him doing the same in MU. Catamo is a "can-opener" for Sporting and Amad could be that guy in MU.
Bear in mind that Catamo was - at best - an average winger and became a very good wingback.
It’s true we need to show more composure and above all, better decision making. I disagree that speed is the issue; the ability to attack quickly in transition or after you play through the press is paramount.
Slowing down everything will create its own problems. It’s about knowing when to slow down and when to be quick.
Amorim likes to attack with speed and likes to have possession: both can be true.
All our wingers will need to adapt on new roles. Either no10 or wing back. I have no fear about Amad. He will adapt on both positions. But other 3 wingers....they could be in problems. Especially Rashford.
From what I've seen you need good balance, passing and vision for these roles. Ganracho doesn't really have good passing or an eye for a subtle pass. He's very much a pass and move footballer.
Is it now confirmed we'll transition to 3-5-2 overnight or it's just assumed because he has not played anything else?
Mount coming back and Amad being played into form could be quite timely. Think both of them are the ideal fits as the two AMs in his system. Granted a lot of depends on Mount not getting injured everytime he sneezes, but on paper I think that's the best balanced setup.
Still think he needs a center forward in addition to a wingback. Not convinced Hojlund could be relied on to play the Gyokeres role (Zirkzee certainly ain't it), so suspect he might actually try Rashford in that role until we dip into the market.
Still think he needs a center forward in addition to a wingback. Not convinced Hojlund could be relied on to play the Gyokeres role (Zirkzee certainly ain't it), so suspect he might actually try Rashford in that role until we dip into the market.
Nothing has been confirmed, all we've gotten from Amorim is not to expect us to play like Sporting from the offset. What that means from a tactical perspective is anyone's guess at this point.
Though he's only ever played 3-5-2 since his Braga days, and from what I understand he immediately got Sporting setup like that when he joined them. So its a safe bet to assume he'll likely do the same here.
Did he get to Sporting mid-season?
Very quickly, but the transformation was more about his own ideas, the ability of the players to learn and overall quality of the squad.
He joined SCP in March and his first game was already with a 3:4:3, the impact was from the start, loosing only against Porto and Benfica but overall much better performances.
At this day he is a much better coach than in 2020, he started always with very small groups of players with a good rotation, every player counts and feels important.
The players always seemed to understand very well his ideas, and it shows in the games, they see the results they all have minutes and they improve, it looks simple, but it´s not.
In the beggining the center defenders were better marking, more experienced but slower and not so go with space at there back, now they are much younger, great with the ball and quicker, he would use one lwb or rwb more offensive and other more defensive in each game, know we have 2 offensive almost every match, but there are defenders that can do those positions if needed, like we saw in the last minutes agains City (Quaresma, StJuste, MReis, Fresneda)
In the midle he played always with great players but diferent qualitys,(MD) Palhinha, Ugarte, now Hjulmand and (MC) João Moutinho, Matheus Nunes, Morita and Bragança, it seems it's the place where he dosen't like to make much changes, (just the market doing their work), for those 2 positions we have only 3 players and Pote that can do it to).
In front he had for too much time only one striker, (it seems to be his biggest mistake, wich he already had done it in the first 18 months lacking one center defender) this was only changed in 2023 with the aquisition of Gyokeres, this year we have again 2 strikers.The other 2 in my opinion are very important in the front, he had from the start Pote (the most underrated portuguese player) and fowards that have good lungs, play well in the center having pressure of the oposition by both sides, some wingers he adapted to LWB or RWB. Almost all players can do more than one position and they have to like running and hard training to win their place in the pitch.
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He joined late into their season, around March I think.
Okay so it is very likely he'll at least try to do it.
So people think manager should be given a 6 years contract? But what is the difference? You get fired in 1st or 2nd year anyway. Most cannot last more than 3 anyway.
IMO, this 2.5y contract is actually protecting Amorim, who would definitely demand 2years+ compensation should we sack him after next summer. Sort of to guarantee 2.5 seasons of job security (plus perhaps war chest promised next 2 summer)
Regarding Gyökeres, it seems clear to me that he will leave at the end of the year. For my club’s success, I hope he doesn’t leave in January. It seems there's an agreement with management that he can go at the end of the season for around €80 million if a big club shows interest. In my view, the Swedish player is the best player in the history of the Portuguese league. I’m 36 years old and have seen a few players come and go here.
When Rúben Amorim took over in 2020, Sporting was an extremely disorganized club. We had incidents of player assaults in 2018 that left deep scars on the club, which was highly politicized and divided into factions. Adding to that, the football team lacked direction, and financial difficulties didn’t help either.
That said, understand this: Rúben Amorim will ALWAYS play in a 3-4-3 formation. He has never once changed this strategy. At most, he tweaks the team dynamics, and it may often look like the team is playing a 4-4-2, but the foundation remains 3-4-3. This is non-negotiable.
As for how long it took him to implement this structure, I think this evolution can be viewed as follows:
Rúben Amorim's first match with Sporting: Link to match;Currently, none of the players from that match are still on the team. Captain Coates (the center-back I mentioned earlier — not very technical, tall, but with strong leadership qualities) only left at the end of the season due to a family issue and had to return to Uruguay. He was our leader.
The following season, we were clearly underdogs, with many young players from the youth ranks. The most-used starting XI was as follows:
-------------------Adán-----------------------
Neto (Gonçalo Inácio)--------Coates--------Feddal
Pedro Porro João Palhinha João Mário Nuno Mendes
Nuno Santos Pedro Gonçalves
-----------------------Tiago Tomás---------------------
We were deserved champions, but we especially benefited from a very solid defense. We played with very low lines and scored just enough to win each game. This doesn’t take away from his merit, though; there was no money, he adapted, and led us through a historic season: champions after 19 years.
Then we had two seasons where we didn’t win much, but we laid the groundwork for last season. We generated revenue from several player sales and brought in good players.
Most-used lineup in the second season:
-------------------Adán-----------------------------------
Gonçalo Inácio----Coates-----Matheus Reis
Porro Palhinha(Ugarte) Matheus Nunes Nuno Santos
Sarabia Pedro Gonçalves
Paulinho
Most-used lineup in the third season:
--------------Adán-------------
Diomandé Coates Gonçalo Inácio
Porro (Esgaio) Ugarte Morita Nuno Santos (Matheus Reis)
Edwards Pedro Gonçalves
Paulinho
In short, last season we made only two key signings: Gyökeres and Hjulmand. But for instance, Geny Catamo emerged as well. He had been with us since the youth ranks but was never seen as an exciting prospect; at most, he was considered a player with potential for a career in the Portuguese First League. But he became one of the key players in the league. That's why I mention that Rúben is likely to bet on players no one expects, often in unconventional positions, to surprise everyone.
-----------------Adán (Israel)-------------------
Diomande (Quaresma) Coates Gonçalo Inácio
Geny Catamo Hjulmand Morita Nuno Santos (Matheus Reis)
Trincão (Edwards) Pedro Gonçalves (Paulinho)
Gyokeres
With these starting elevens, you can see the versatility in the positions players take on. And in this lineup, it’s not even clear how many times, for example, Pedro Gonçalves has also played in one of the midfield positions, or how Paulinho has played both on the right and left, as well as centrally. The players adapt to this 3-4-3 formation.
Finally, here’s a video of a Sporting training session to give you an idea of the intensity Rúben brings to daily practices. Watch the whole video if you’d like, but my point starts at minute 3:48, where you can see the intensity Sporting has whenever they lose the ball, the aggressiveness players are required to have in defensive transitions: lose the ball, then sprint back.
I can't put youtube videos but search for "INSIDE SPORTING | Agosto & Setembro"
When Rúben Amorim took over in 2020, Sporting was an extremely disorganized club. We had incidents of player assaults in 2018 that left deep scars on the club, which was highly politicized and divided into factions. Adding to that, the football team lacked direction, and financial difficulties didn’t help either.
That said, understand this: Rúben Amorim will ALWAYS play in a 3-4-3 formation. He has never once changed this strategy. At most, he tweaks the team dynamics, and it may often look like the team is playing a 4-4-2, but the foundation remains 3-4-3. This is non-negotiable.
As for how long it took him to implement this structure, I think this evolution can be viewed as follows:
Rúben Amorim's first match with Sporting: Link to match;Currently, none of the players from that match are still on the team. Captain Coates (the center-back I mentioned earlier — not very technical, tall, but with strong leadership qualities) only left at the end of the season due to a family issue and had to return to Uruguay. He was our leader.
The following season, we were clearly underdogs, with many young players from the youth ranks. The most-used starting XI was as follows:
-------------------Adán-----------------------
Neto (Gonçalo Inácio)--------Coates--------Feddal
Pedro Porro João Palhinha João Mário Nuno Mendes
Nuno Santos Pedro Gonçalves
-----------------------Tiago Tomás---------------------
We were deserved champions, but we especially benefited from a very solid defense. We played with very low lines and scored just enough to win each game. This doesn’t take away from his merit, though; there was no money, he adapted, and led us through a historic season: champions after 19 years.
Then we had two seasons where we didn’t win much, but we laid the groundwork for last season. We generated revenue from several player sales and brought in good players.
Most-used lineup in the second season:
-------------------Adán-----------------------------------
Gonçalo Inácio----Coates-----Matheus Reis
Porro Palhinha(Ugarte) Matheus Nunes Nuno Santos
Sarabia Pedro Gonçalves
Paulinho
Most-used lineup in the third season:
--------------Adán-------------
Diomandé Coates Gonçalo Inácio
Porro (Esgaio) Ugarte Morita Nuno Santos (Matheus Reis)
Edwards Pedro Gonçalves
Paulinho
In short, last season we made only two key signings: Gyökeres and Hjulmand. But for instance, Geny Catamo emerged as well. He had been with us since the youth ranks but was never seen as an exciting prospect; at most, he was considered a player with potential for a career in the Portuguese First League. But he became one of the key players in the league. That's why I mention that Rúben is likely to bet on players no one expects, often in unconventional positions, to surprise everyone.
-----------------Adán (Israel)-------------------
Diomande (Quaresma) Coates Gonçalo Inácio
Geny Catamo Hjulmand Morita Nuno Santos (Matheus Reis)
Trincão (Edwards) Pedro Gonçalves (Paulinho)
Gyokeres
With these starting elevens, you can see the versatility in the positions players take on. And in this lineup, it’s not even clear how many times, for example, Pedro Gonçalves has also played in one of the midfield positions, or how Paulinho has played both on the right and left, as well as centrally. The players adapt to this 3-4-3 formation.
Finally, here’s a video of a Sporting training session to give you an idea of the intensity Rúben brings to daily practices. Watch the whole video if you’d like, but my point starts at minute 3:48, where you can see the intensity Sporting has whenever they lose the ball, the aggressiveness players are required to have in defensive transitions: lose the ball, then sprint back.
I can't put youtube videos but search for "INSIDE SPORTING | Agosto & Setembro"
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Really is.
I agree. It works out for both parties. If he is a success and wants to stay he can negotiate a nice pay rise. If it doesn’t work, then there is no big payout by Utd
Here’s what I’m thinking:
Yoro De Ligt Martinez
Mazraoui Mainoo Ugarte Garnacho
Amad Hojlund/Rashford Bruno
Alternate wingbacks: Dalot, Amad, Antony, mythical left backs
Alternate 10s: Zirkzee, Mount
Shaw and Dalot can play the lcb and rcb positions. Maguire and Evans center.
I don’t really see Rashford or Garnacho in one of the ‘10’ positions, but would not be surprised if Amorim coaches them to do that.