I didn’t. I was referring to a culture of slacking at our club that has been prevalent since Fergie left. There’s a reason why all our signings have either been flops or flattered to deceive aside from Zlatan, Bruno and Mazraoui.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
The problem was both. We don’t have defenders that defend high and wide well at all (barring Yoro), and on top of that you had the infamous midfield gap. Both have to be rectified
I said the other day there was a report he told the portugese press he wanted the challenge of bringing Utd back to the top, moreso than any other challenge. It makes me think how quick it was done if this was going to happen in the summer, but we are that poor Ineos brought it forward.
Another thing I heard was he trains players to play other positions, eg wingers to be wing backs. Maybe Garnacho and Amad could do this role
He didn’t say he would change his style, he said he wouldn’t be able to play like yesterday. Which is obvious. He doesn’t play like he did yesterday on the portuguese League and he won’t play like this with Man Utd players on his hands.
If you see a Sporting game at the portuguese League, it’s very different from yesterday’s performance in terms of how high we press, how much time do we have the ball, etc. the only similarity? It’s always really good football.
yes, Sporting have a lot of goals this season… playing with average 67%\68% ball possession and dominating the game with the ball in our possession. That’s not exactly what happened vs City right?
That’s what he meant. What this game proves is that beside being a great offensive dominating coach, he can also make his team defend and adapt to a stronger opponent when needed.
How is this not a great thing…?
Don’t worry about this. We love nitpicking and panicking over every little thing here on Redcafe. It’s great that he is ready to adapt his set up and game play to an opponent who are obviously stronger than them. Does not mean that is how he will play against every team.
He’s not a fool. He knows the miserable state of the club as well as how prestigious and historic it is. This is one of the biggest jobs in football.
I cannot keep up with all the videos posted but I felt this was a good watch.
Shot distance and absolute number of shots was quite interesting. It suits Hojlund quite well.
Shot distance and absolute number of shots was quite interesting. It suits Hojlund quite well.
Unfortunately, Garnacho and Rashford do not suit Hojlund at all with their absolute refusal to pass the ball to him. Actually, it's not just to him - it's to anyone at all. The ball gets sucked into a black hole whenever it reaches one of them, and barely (if ever) comes back out.
Im near certain that players that can't change their game will be dropped. I don't really see where Rashford fits yet.
I don’t think there's been a culture of slacking under ETH. The majority of the players have put a shift in for him. He kicked out those who wouldn't.
Trying harder or running more isn't the issue for this group(apart from one or two maybe).
I hope so. For all of the failings of Ten Hag, his persistence with continually playing Rashford, I think, was one of the architects of his downfall. He showed faith and was let down. Massively.
He played that there cause it made sense. He will play whatever makes sense here
I'm not sure what the confusion is here. We clearly spent the entire last season playing 4141 with two attacking midfielders positioned significantly ahead of a DM, so the intention was for Mount and Bruno to play those two attacking positions. That's how we started the season, then due to Mount's first injury McTominay took that spot and continued to play the same way. Mainoo started off getting games as the DM in that formation while Casemiro was out, then once Casemiro came back Mainoo took over from McTominay as the second attacking midfielder (he probably did help the actual midfield a touch more than Mount or McTominay did, but he was still more of an attacking midfielder than a central midfielder).
Mainoo was certainly going to play a decent amount of matches, but ETH wouldn't have gone into last season expecting him to be first choice. Plus with the amount of games that we play we need to be able to rotate, and if Mount had actually stayed fit then there was obviously a position there for him in that system.
Of course, this season we've played more of a 4231 again so now it was much harder to figure out where he would play. Which would have still made his purchase a waste in the long-term, but it did make sense based on what ETH originally wanted to do.
Now that Amorim is coming in, it will likely all change again. It appears his formation at Sporting is best described as a 3421, so Mount might be a good fit again in the '2'. If he can stay fit.
Indeed.
I think Mount, Amad and Bruno are more natural fits for those roles in behind Rasmus once good wing back play is established. The first two have played the system before.
Perhaps Rashford and Garnacho are more likely to get minutes from the bench until they adapt their play. Very much doubt they'll do it without some leverage being applied.
He's left Sporting in a far better place than when he took on that gig. A few years before he arrived a group of around 50 people forced their way into Sportings training centre and assaulted players and staff when they didn't qualify for Europe.
How many managers would be interested in that job after that? The type of manager that likes the challenge and few bigger challenges than United.
Based upon very little I am going to boldly predict Mount becomes a key Amorim player*
*for about 40 minutes before he gets injured
*for about 40 minutes before he gets injured
If there’s slacking/laziness, then it’s up to the coach to sort it out or get rid. I refer back to your original assertion that it’s the players getting the coaches sacked. I disagree.
Only place I see Rashford fitting is as the channel running striker.
What do you mean you are not sure about the confusion, it is actually quite apparent, you have eluded to it too. What was the long term plan?
Mount was a 10 at Chelsea, McTominay and Kobbie are not the same profile of players, regardless of what you say, those 3 do not have the same qualities or attributes.
Mount is more in the Bruno mould than the other 2. There was no plan from Ten Hag, which was the issue, the players he bought to what he played, showed he had no clue.
He bought Anonty for the RW, a player he knows so he knows his strengths and weaknesses, he is more in the Amad mould but instead he insisted on using completely different profiles in Rashford / Garnacho in that position.
That is my point, he wasted alot of money with 0 plan. Also, this narrative that it was a 4-1-4-1 and this season 4-2-3-1 is incorrect.
We started to pay a 4-2-4 formation end of last season and this.. so where was the plan for Mount? Mainoo has never played in the 2 upfront to say he is same profile as Mount.
This is exactly the kind of thing written about ETH when he was arriving at MUFC.
I no longer fall for that.
The new manager must perform at THIS club (not his previous club) and then I will get excited.
In fairness, isn't Rashford our "star" player?
I realise that his form is up and down, but he is our most valuable attacker and I think it would've been foolish to leave him out.
ETH's tactics were broadly terrible and it wasn't because of Rashford that we finished in 8th last season and are closer to the bottom of the table, than the top of the table, this season.
Correct.
To be honest think he’d have been key for Ten Hag if he wasn’t made of biscuits. Bless him.
If only he were made of Busquets
The long term plan was to play the 4141, with Mount being the one he wanted playing next to Bruno. He's not going to build a system and make long term plans based on an 18yo kid who had played less than 90 minutes of first team football. It was clear that both Mount and McTominay were playing at a similar field height as Bruno was, and the fact that it was completely different than Scott had ever played before shows it was how ETH was actively setting us up to play. That was his system. It was then up to Mainoo to fit into that system, with ETH developing him to do so over time. Mainoo's natural inclination meant he did it in a different way, but he arguably still played more as an attacker than a midfielder. He then pushed his way into the strongest lineup (partly due to his good performances and partly due to Mount's injuries and poor performances) earlier than expected.
I call it 4141 and 4231 due to that being the best description in my eyes to show the difference between how we played last season and this season. It's not a perfect description as there's so much rotation (for example Dalot sometimes inverting into midfield and sometimes staying out wide to join the attack), and there are some games where it's still been closer to how we played last season. But in general last season we were leaving the DM completely isolated, whereas this season it's a more normal setup where he's not being hung out to dry. Hence why we're not conceding 20+ shots every game. It's not the only reason, but that 2nd midfielder helping out a bit more is part of it.
ETH did have a plan. It was just an absolute shit plan, and some of the players he was planning around (such as Antony and Mount) lost their spot to different players that we already had as they, and the team as a whole, performed better.
The changes this season may have been due to ETH realising what he originally wanted to do wasn't working, or it may have been Wilcox and/or Ashworth telling him to dial it back a bit. But Mount clearly did fit the original plan, which is why I don't understand why people (not just you) say that his signing didn't make sense as we didn't have a role for him. We did, but it didn't work.
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There's a small, ABU conspiracy orientated part of me that makes me feel the over abundance of coverage of Amorim's system is to give the rest of the league ample time to find ways to stop it.
I've never seen an incoming manager have his tactics and even personality over-analysed like this by the media.
If they are trying to jinx us then I counteract their jinx and no backsies.
I've never seen an incoming manager have his tactics and even personality over-analysed like this by the media.
If they are trying to jinx us then I counteract their jinx and no backsies.
You say that he isnt going to make a long term plan based on a 18 yr old and say he changed styles which shows he had no plan.
He came into season 1 with a plan.. 2 games in shelved the plan and went to a counter attacking style for the duration of season 1, relying on Rashford.
Season 2 pre season tries this 4-1-4-1 system that completely failed.. you say that the team performed better? Last season was one of our worst in terms of results and performances, so no I disagree. The team did not perform better.
Then into season 3 he started with a 4-2-4 system.. 3rd season and he has changed his styles 4 times, none of them that worked. No it didn't make sense because he shelved the plan in 3 games.
Having a plan is something you believe in.. he clearly didn't believe in anything he was doing. Mount is not the only example of this... he spoke about how Maguire / Varane cant play LCB because of angles and rest defence... but they played there.
Mount has barely played in the 8, he wanted to mould him into that.. Ten Hag had managed to mould nothing and no player has improved... they have all actually regressed under his coaching.
Lot of people say we should drop the players who are not performing, problem with that is we don't have enough quality on the bench to justify that.
If Garnacho and Rashford are not doing well we can only bring in Antony/Amad which are not there yet in delivering winning performances.
So only option is signing better players with right mentality who like to work their socks off for the team, If we add more players like this (for example Maz) then it will rub on all others and we do well as a team.
This will also make coaching team's life a bit easier so they can focus more on tactic's than begging players to work hard for the team, imagine keeping up same players every year and hoping for a change.
If Garnacho and Rashford are not doing well we can only bring in Antony/Amad which are not there yet in delivering winning performances.
So only option is signing better players with right mentality who like to work their socks off for the team, If we add more players like this (for example Maz) then it will rub on all others and we do well as a team.
This will also make coaching team's life a bit easier so they can focus more on tactic's than begging players to work hard for the team, imagine keeping up same players every year and hoping for a change.
If they cannot play in a team formation, they must be dropped form the starting lineup and only used as impact subs.
Football is primarily a team game.
The analysis that the media do is nowhere near the standard that top clubs need to actually use and implement a counter plan.There's a small, ABU conspiracy orientated part of me that makes me feel the over abundance of coverage of Amorim's system is to give the rest of the league ample time to find ways to stop it.
I've never seen an incoming manager have his tactics and even personality over-analysed like this by the media.
If they are trying to jinx us then I counteract their jinx and no backsies.
Media analysis is for dummies like us
I think the name of the game is to not fall out with any more players here. They are still a soft overpaid bunch with massive egos. If the new manager doesn’t like a player or they aren’t following instructions you just gently phase them out. When they complain you explain they now need to fight harder than ever for their place and show them where it’s not been working in your opinion. The players know the recruitment is mostly out of the managers hands now. He’s reporting up to a regime that is keen to embrace change. In the meantime our new manager has to somehow get a lot more out of our squad or we will probably start seeing headline departures next summer. Bruno and Shaw, Rashford, Maguire on a free etc. Left field but I can see this manager finally using Antony as a LWB and it actually being ok. He’s not going to be racking up goals and assists but he can put a shift in getting up and down and it would give us some natural width while waiting for Shaw to come back in until he gets injured again.
I’d say at this moment in time we are actually solid enough in the middle with 3 at the back with Ugarte sweeping up. if we can get Mainoo playmaking and refine whatever Bruno is at… and get Rashford working for the team it’s a totally different outlook hopefully and that’s without any transfers. Garnacho or Rashford need to come out for Amad for a few games too. Garnacho I’ve always felt is better on the left but he’s been shunted around to accommodate Rashford. It’s just making these hard decisions quickly and then standing by them even when we stutter and we will for sure. We have some really top quality young players coming through now too. I think if we can finally modernise our football over the next season or two we will be a genuine force again by 2026
There's a small, ABU conspiracy orientated part of me that makes me feel the over abundance of coverage of Amorim's system is to give the rest of the league ample time to find ways to stop it.
I've never seen an incoming manager have his tactics and even personality over-analysed like this by the media.
If they are trying to jinx us then I counteract their jinx and no backsies.
While I applaud the tin-foil hat nature of this - I don't think its anything more then the fact that we're Manchester United and us having a new manager because our last one was crap is literally the biggest news story in football.
Any and all angles will be covered in-depth.
If you want to compare him to Ten Hag, compare to Ten Hag in his first ~6 months. That's about it. Because after that he abandoned his plans and went to the wrong direction. So saying "but Ten Hag failed..." is not a valid comparison when you take account of a new manager. People change. Ten Hag definitely changed. He abandoned anything resembling 'structure' and 'pattern' to develop Oleball 2.0. I will never understand it.
Can you dumb this down for me?The analysis that the media do is nowhere near the standard that top clubs need to actually use and implement a counter plan.
Media analysis is for dummies like us
Ruben obviously wears the finest Balenciaga foil apparel to block the media mind rays from seeing his brand of underpants.
Just watched it thought it was a really good analysis and some very interesting things.
Agree.
He was the cause of his own downfall.
For me, one of the main things he is going to have to address is the lack of intensity in the team’s play.
I read somewhere recently, iirc it was on The Athletic, where one of their journos spoke to an Analyst from Spurs after the 0-3. When asked where he thought United’s problems stemmed from he said “United’s players like to run forward, they just don’t like to run back.” He also insinuated that every other club knew this.
I read somewhere recently, iirc it was on The Athletic, where one of their journos spoke to an Analyst from Spurs after the 0-3. When asked where he thought United’s problems stemmed from he said “United’s players like to run forward, they just don’t like to run back.” He also insinuated that every other club knew this.
Nah we're just a massive club and generate far more interest than most other clubs.There's a small, ABU conspiracy orientated part of me that makes me feel the over abundance of coverage of Amorim's system is to give the rest of the league ample time to find ways to stop it.
I've never seen an incoming manager have his tactics and even personality over-analysed like this by the media.
If they are trying to jinx us then I counteract their jinx and no backsies.
The only time he dramatically changed plan was in his first season when he realised he couldn't implement what he wanted so largely went back to Ole-ball. Well, I guess there was also the last few games of last season in preparation for the FA Cup final, although I suspect that was Wilcox suggesting/demanding it rather than ETH doing it by himself.
ETH basically went all-in on how he wanted to play in his second season. What we saw there was his plan. It's why we played virtually the same way every single match from the first game in preseason up until the final four games of the season, despite the fact that every man and his dog could see it wasn't working. Fans bemoaned it, commentators couldn't understand it, opposition managers literally talked about how they took advantage of it. Mount fit that system, which is what sparked this conversation we're having.
He stuck with that plan long enough that it would almost certainly have seen him fired if not for us being in the process of building a new footballing structure around him. He was incredibly stubborn in regards to not changing it, which is the exact opposite of what you are implying here. The fact that he modified it a bit this season (it's hardly a huge change) doesn't mean that he wasn't building towards that system. Plans change. Pep changed how he's set up his team multiple times at City, Klopp did at Liverpool, Arteta has at Arsenal, etc. None of that was any different to what ETH has done over the last 18 months. The difference is what they did worked, whereas ETH obviously failed to an incredible degree.
Oh, and I never said the team performed better in the second season. In the context of the second season, Garnacho performed better and was better for the team than Antony, and Mainoo likewise for a Mount who struggled to get on the pitch and struggled when he did.