Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Yakuza_devils said:
If he can't improve us by end of the season he has to go. Do not repeat the mistake of keeping ETH last summer and backed him with hundred of millions only to sack him a few months later. Do not let the history repeats itself.
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He literally can't be given hundreds of millions anyway, due to the financial situation, so no need for everyone to panic.
 
Wolfbot said:
What's interesting about Amorim coming in is I can barely, if ever, remember hearing a lack of training sessions being used as an excuse for poor performances under any other manager, let alone a rolling excuse three months into their tenure.
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The Mitcher said:
Things didn't even improve when we stopped having mid week games as well, so it can't be an excuse anymore. Also makes you wonder what are they doing two to three days before each of these midweek matches? No other team has this issue in the league.
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It's wishful thinking at best. What could be a better learning tool then playing a competitive match and getting feedback at half time, after the game, and watching video analysis of the performance the day after?

Edit-and for the record I'm not blaming Amorim. I just don't think players are very good and people are putting too much on preseason. He needs better players.
 
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bondsname said:
I have accepted that we're gonna be shite for a while. My life has been really peaceful since I've come to terms with that. There is not a single manager out there who can just come in, snap his fingers, and we're going to be one of the best teams in Europe. This is going to take a while to sort out.
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This. I'm become very sterile to losing. So much so that I hardly watch us live and follow the scores online. I just can't hack being angry at the TV. Every manager or player we've bought has turned into mush. It's like we're cursed. I no longer get excited with signings like a lot of our fanbase do. Football is cyclical in England.
I expect us to get better but really don't know when. This will coincide with the likes of Liverpool and City getting weaker.
 
Young hungry players are the foundation of the squad he is building. Looking forward to winning games with Amorim's Aces.
 
JPRouve said:
Better than 5th and same amount of points than the 4th best team with that lot?
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Absolutely. A lot of those draws were against teams we should have beat. I mean, that was the season Leicester won the league, there is no excuses for how bad we were.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
If he can't improve us by end of the season he has to go. Do not repeat the mistake of keeping ETH last summer and backed him with hundred of millions only to sack him a few months later. Do not let the history repeats itself.
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I think he has to be given a fair chance. The question is, what is a fair chance?

From the start he has said that it was going to be a bumpy ride, and the club knew this because this is why they didn't approach him in the summer. So I don't think the situation is out of control or anything like that, I do believe they know what needs to be done. It is just whether they can get it done and sign the right players.

But the idea of sacking him just doesn't feel right for me, not this season. If we sack him after only 1 signing, a relatively inexperienced LWB, then I'd say it's not a fair chance given the squad clearly can't operate in the system he was employed to introduce. I don't think he'll be sacked this season personally, but if he was, it would come as no surprise to see the next guy fail with these players also. And for Amorim to go and do well elsewhere.

Potter has gone to West Ham and introduced his version of the 3atb formation and they have took to it pretty well so far. Amorim would have less issues implementing this elsewhere, we seem to be the only club in world football who have so many issues tactically and with our players. It's a fecking joke. How many players and managers in the last 10 years? not one hit. That has to be pretty rare, especially given the finances behind it all.
 
JPRouve said:
It wasn't the point. The point was about the quality of the team that finished 5th. That team had an injury crisis and featured a lot of Varela, McNair, Fosuh Mensah, Borthwick Jackson, Pereira, Lingard, some dreadful performers like Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger or Depay(2015 Zirkzee).

It was a genuinely awful squad that was actually available.
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Yikes. In hindsight, LVG was probably the best coach of the post-SAF era. Unfortunately, he did poorly in every other aspect of the manager job.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Yikes. In hindsight, LVG was probably the best coach of the post-SAF era. Unfortunately, he did poorly in every other aspect of the manager job.
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Not really, he underperformed even in that last season. We should not have finished 5th considering the way that season panned out. Was probably as good a chance as ever to win the league if Leicester were able to do it.
 
The Mitcher said:
Not really, he underperformed even in that last season. We should not have finished 5th considering the way that season panned out. Was probably as good a chance as ever to win the league if Leicester were able to do it.
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We were crying out loud for an experienced striker that summer - I never understood why we went waving our dicks around in the transfer market for every other position but ignored that enormous hole in the squad.

Reckon with a decent striker, a lot of those 0-0 draws turn into 1-0 wins and suddenly we look a lot more competitive.

Missed opportunity for sure.
 
The Mitcher said:
Absolutely. A lot of those draws were against teams we should have beat. I mean, that was the season Leicester won the league, there is no excuses for how bad we were.
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An other team overachieving even more doesn't mean that he underachieved. I really don't agree with your view, it was an awful team to start with and then it was worsened by an historic amount of injuries.
 
I dont agree in putting all blame on players and say we don't have quality. Good managers makes the best out of available players and show something . I unfortunately, do not see anything from Amorim or hasn't seen anything yet.

Do you remember Klopp's first 11 ?
Mignolet
Sakho
Clyne
Moreno
Lucas
Can
Lallana
Coutinho
Milner
Origi

Did Klopp wait until he got all his players ? I still remember his first game - his footprint were there even though the team was terrible. Yes, they dropped lot of points but we knew what he was trying to do. I am not sure if I get that feel with Amorim.

Hope this guy works out but I doubt he will make it to summer .
 
bond19821982 said:
I dont agree in putting all blame on players and say we don't have quality. Good managers makes the best out of available players and show something . I unfortunately, do not see anything from Amorim or hasn't seen anything yet.

Do you remember Klopp's first 11 ?
Mignolet
Sakho
Clyne
Moreno
Lucas
Can
Lallana
Coutinho
Milner
Origi

Did Klopp wait until he got all his players ? I still remember his first game - his footprint were there even though the team was terrible. Yes, they dropped lot of points but we knew what he was trying to do. I am not sure if I get that feel.

Hope this guy works out but I doubt he will make it to summer .
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100%. I still don't see a clear style of play he is trying to achieve that will improve us. Instead, he made us worse and boring to watch.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Yikes. In hindsight, LVG was probably the best coach of the post-SAF era. Unfortunately, he did poorly in every other aspect of the manager job.
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Not a chance. Louis was a disaster in every aspect of his time at OT. His players didn’t even underperform…they were instructed to play tumescent football and they followed his instructions.
 
lex talionis said:
Not a chance. Louis was a disaster in every aspect of his time at OT. His players didn’t even underperform…they were instructed to play tumescent football and they followed his instructions.
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This is weird. I typed “tumescent” but the display on this post says “tumescent”. I went to edit and it appeared tumescent in editing mode but on display it still says tumescent.
 
lex talionis said:
Not a chance. Louis was a disaster in every aspect of his time at OT. His players didn’t even underperform…they were instructed to play tumescent football and they followed his instructions.
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Hence... He was effective at coaching and poor at everything else. Which is exactly the point I was making.
 
bond19821982 said:
I dont agree in putting all blame on players and say we don't have quality. Good managers makes the best out of available players and show something . I unfortunately, do not see anything from Amorim or hasn't seen anything yet.

Do you remember Klopp's first 11 ?
Mignolet
Sakho
Clyne
Moreno
Lucas
Can
Lallana
Coutinho
Milner
Origi

Did Klopp wait until he got all his players ? I still remember his first game - his footprint were there even though the team was terrible. Yes, they dropped lot of points but we knew what he was trying to do. I am not sure if I get that feel with Amorim.

Hope this guy works out but I doubt he will make it to summer .
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Yakuza_devils said:
100%. I still don't see a clear style of play he is trying to achieve that will improve us. Instead, he made us worse and boring to watch.
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While Klop inherited a bunch of pretty average players, they did actually have a style of play under Rodgers, a 'system'. They played on the front foot, they played attacking football, they pressed, they played a high line. All aspects of the game Klop came in and utilised, tweaked, made better. They also played a back four.

On the other hand, Amorim is inheriting a team that barely knows the basics, struggles to string a few passes together, poor off the ball, poor in every aspect of the game. Its like they've never been coached.
Nobody knew what the system was under Eth, they knew what it was under Rodgers though and Liverpool appointed Klop knowing he could enhance what was already being done.

United and Amorim is a full reset, not just the football, the formation and the culture are being ripped up and rebuilt.
Huge difference.

Further evidence of what Amorin is trying to instill, he signs Dorgu, and the first thing that was said about him, is that he has a great mentality, all his coaches he's worked with have praised his mentality. Gets rid of the player with the worst mentality in the process. Will take time but I see the vision.
 
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Bo_devil said:
While Klop inherited a bunch of pretty average players, they did actually have a style of play under Rodgers, a 'system'. They played on the front foot, they played attacking football, they pressed, they played a high line. All aspects of the game Klop came in and utilised, tweaked, made better. They also played a back four.

On the other hand, Amorim is inheriting a team that barely knows the basics, struggles to string a few passes together, poor off the ball, poor in every aspect of the game. Its like they've never been coached.
Nobody knew what the system was under Eth, they knew what it was under Rodgers though and Liverpool appointed Klop knowing he could enhance what was already being done.

United and Amorim is a full reset, not just the football, the formation and the culture are being ripped up and rebuilt.
Huge difference.
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Excellent post.

The management now needs to invest time and money on Amorim's project. It's a reset . We had countless false dawn's. Hopefully Rashford will perform at Villa and get in some transfer fee. Also clear out more deadwood like lindelof, Casemiro And Co. And we can invest and restart.

This season is now a free hit. I would rather concentrate on EL and hope we get some rub of the green.

Also let's hope we get to see Chido soon..besides that we are going to have a few more dark nights.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
Maybe not, but plenty of people (yourself included) are sure giving the impression that you've already made your mind up that he's going to be unsuccessful.
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I'm not so sure. He talks a good game and comes across like he could be a charismatic leader who would be popular in the dressing room, and his record at Sporting is pretty encouraging.

But so far I think his player selections have been quite conservative and I was/am hoping for a bit more tactical dynamism. He seems quite proactive with substitutions and seems very engaged in the game so I keep expecting him to be more tactically flexible but so far he seems a bit worryingly one-note.

I'm excited to see if the arrival of Dorgu elevates us and gives us a clearer idea of the kind of football he wants to be playing.
 
bond19821982 said:
I dont agree in putting all blame on players and say we don't have quality. Good managers makes the best out of available players and show something . I unfortunately, do not see anything from Amorim or hasn't seen anything yet.

Do you remember Klopp's first 11 ?
Mignolet
Sakho
Clyne
Moreno
Lucas
Can
Lallana
Coutinho
Milner
Origi

Did Klopp wait until he got all his players ? I still remember his first game - his footprint were there even though the team was terrible. Yes, they dropped lot of points but we knew what he was trying to do. I am not sure if I get that feel with Amorim.

Hope this guy works out but I doubt he will make it to summer .
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Ye that’s why Guardiola had to spend a fortune in January. And that’s why his team have been awful since Rodri got injured. And that’s why they panicked on deadline day after getting hammered of Arsenal to buy a midfielder.
 
I am also not on Amorim's side so far. He has done nothing yet to convince me . (infact i am quite surprised at the free pass he gets from the press.)

Some argumetns on his side

It is his first season.

They are not his players

Look at Klopp and Arteta - it took them a while too.

The people above him ( the Board) has a lot to say. He is only one person

He is not solely responsiable for transfers

FFP restrictions are a hinderance

His communication skill is good ( though not related to results)


Arguments against him

He sounds like his formation and philosophy is innovative and more important than the club.

There was no manager bounce back

We dont see any tactical intelligence from him

The back three doesnot suite the players

He is not flexiable or adaptable enough to change formations

He is responsible for the team performance and results to certain degree

The players maynot be good enough individually but he has to make them work collectively as a team

The players arenot worse than lets say wolves, palace or forest

Though back three may not be very popular some teams like palace and forest has better results with it

There was no progress since he took over

Maybe the job is too big for him like Ten Hag who both have similar credentials
 
The funniest underlying statistic about LvG's second season is that our 49 goals were an outperformance. Glory days.

Since said stats were mentioned a few pages back, there hasn't been any actual improvement yet. Taking the performances we have produced into account, Opta's projections "predict" us finishing on 47 points and (most likely) between 13-15 place. The stats tell of an attempt to implement a different style, but it hasn't paid any dividends in these first couple of months.

The same old comparisons again... I'm still waiting for Solskjaer to turn into Klopp.
 
devilish said:
Players will need to be rested and injuries will be picked. That's what going to happen at the latter stages of the season. It seems Ideots weren't ready to spend 5m on Tel's loan but are perfectly fine in hiring/giving contract extensions and then sacking Ashworth and ETH.

Irrespective of that whoever wants to dig United out of that hole will need money..LOADS of it. I can't see IDeots having the will to do that
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Ah yes the cost of sacking Ten Hag increased due to the contract INEOS gave him, there you go sack him last summer and we could have afforded Tel loan deal yesterday. They will never win me back over after deciding to keep him due to over emotional reaction to winning FA Cup.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
The funniest underlying statistic about LvG's second season is that our 49 goals were an outperformance. Glory days.

Since said stats were mentioned a few pages back, there hasn't been any actual improvement yet. Taking the performances we have produced into account, Opta's projections "predict" us finishing on 47 points and (most likely) between 13-15 place. The stats tell of an attempt to implement a different style, but it hasn't paid any dividends in these first couple of months.

The same old comparisons again... I'm still waiting for Solskjaer to turn into Klopp.
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Sterile domination. Rarely do you see a team so comfortable in possession and so useless offensively. Though one may argue that it is what we are currently doing.
 
yamo123x said:
Ruben Amorim was a talented young manager with a fantastic reputation

He was set up to fail by Ineos, bought into a toxic environment, /given no financial support, given no public support, hounded by the media and allowed to rot alongside his already putrid squad of overpaid overhyped egos.

it all comes from the top, Glazers out, iNEOS out.
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I couldn't have put it any better myself, poor Ruben will have to stand strong under the media avalanche until the end of this season.
 
croadyman said:
Ah yes the cost of sacking Ten Hag increased due to the contract INEOS gave him, there you go sack him last summer and we could have afforded Tel loan deal yesterday. They will never win me back over after deciding to keep him due to over emotional reaction to winning FA Cup.
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Morons completely botched it and managed to leak their intention to sack him on the only possible wrong weekend.

Any time in earlier in the season and no one could really have complained as our performances were bad and we didn't look like improving. Doing it after the cup final would also be fine (though not the same fecking day as they classlessly did with van Gaal) - he had had two seasons to get it right and we weren't good enough.

Just don't leak it the day before the final - how hard can it be? They haplessly turned the final into a referendum on Ten Hag's leadership.
 
yamo123x said:
Ruben Amorim was a talented young manager with a fantastic reputation

He was set up to fail by Ineos, bought into a toxic environment, /given no financial support, given no public support, hounded by the media and allowed to rot alongside his already putrid squad of overpaid overhyped egos.

it all comes from the top, Glazers out, iNEOS out.
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100% this. Sadly feels like any manager who was brought in would be in a similar position. Maybe, just maybe we would have been better with a manager that plays 4231/433 (that fits these not so athletic and no first touch having and pass it to the opposition players better..).

But most of this is down to how those greedy fecks Glazers have sucked the club dry and now INEOS have to pick up the pieces from them, so far not doing the best job.
 
Funny the talk of Van Gaal now, as watching the current team is the most sterile and toothless we have looked since Van Gaal.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
There are lots of other different sources saying different things. We will spend big in the summer.
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No we won't. Have you seriously not caught onto the game yet? Every winter we don't sign any players despite us being in desperate need for some. The club announce deals were hard in the winter, but they prefer to focus on the summer. Through the intermediaries in the media stories start coming out about how much money we will spend next summer, we will inevitably get linked (in very strong terms) with some big money signing, ie we didn't sign Kamara or Amadou Haidara in Jan 22 because we were waiting for the summer. Then all these concrete stories came out about us definitely signing Declan Rice, it was essentially a done deal in Feb 22, only for him to stay at West Ham that summer and then sign for Arsenal the next summer.

Don't fall for these games anymore, we have skint owners with no intention of buying top quality players and competing with the like of Citeh and Liverpool.
 
JPRouve said:
Sterile domination. Rarely do you see a team so comfortable in possession and so useless offensively. Though one may argue that it is what we are currently doing.
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Its easier to keep the ball when you have 5 at the back and a non direct style of play.
 
bond19821982 said:
I dont agree in putting all blame on players and say we don't have quality. Good managers makes the best out of available players and show something . I unfortunately, do not see anything from Amorim or hasn't seen anything yet.

Do you remember Klopp's first 11 ?
Mignolet
Sakho
Clyne
Moreno
Lucas
Can
Lallana
Coutinho
Milner
Origi

Did Klopp wait until he got all his players ? I still remember his first game - his footprint were there even though the team was terrible. Yes, they dropped lot of points but we knew what he was trying to do. I am not sure if I get that feel with Amorim.

Hope this guy works out but I doubt he will make it to summer .
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Amorims’ footprint is also there on the team - just that the team is terrible same as what you said for Klopp.
 
pocco said:
I think he has to be given a fair chance. The question is, what is a fair chance?

From the start he has said that it was going to be a bumpy ride, and the club knew this because this is why they didn't approach him in the summer. So I don't think the situation is out of control or anything like that, I do believe they know what needs to be done. It is just whether they can get it done and sign the right players.

But the idea of sacking him just doesn't feel right for me, not this season. If we sack him after only 1 signing, a relatively inexperienced LWB, then I'd say it's not a fair chance given the squad clearly can't operate in the system he was employed to introduce. I don't think he'll be sacked this season personally, but if he was, it would come as no surprise to see the next guy fail with these players also. And for Amorim to go and do well elsewhere.

Potter has gone to West Ham and introduced his version of the 3atb formation and they have took to it pretty well so far. Amorim would have less issues implementing this elsewhere, we seem to be the only club in world football who have so many issues tactically and with our players. It's a fecking joke. How many players and managers in the last 10 years? not one hit. That has to be pretty rare, especially given the finances behind it all.
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He won't be sacked or anywhere near it come the end of the season, regardless of position and rightly so. As a supporter though, I'll be bitterly disappointed if we're playing much the same football and getting the same results and performances a few more months down the line.

Your second paragraph is the bit I'm not sure about. If other teams can take to a new formation why are we so different?
Are we really saying that West Ham have a much better and more tactically astute squad than we do?

In my opinion we're a bit too quick to call out the players for being very low quality when they have largely been very good players elsewhere, hence us buying them in the first place.

I don't know the answer, I have theories but I'm not sure it's simply a player quality issue alone.
 
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