Bravo for telling it like it is
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Bravo for telling it like it is
People really aren’t getting this either, they seem to think his system is some stodgy 5 atb trying to stifle opposition when in reality it’s brilliant to watch and effective with proper personnel.
Sadly don’t think he’s going to make it here. Should have come in the summer.
Thanks for the detailed response. I must admit, I've been thinking similar thoughts about Amorim. If they do sack him, and that's a huge if, then Berrada needs to go too. Calling out players in the press used to be a big no-no for any manager but he seems to have licence to make these types of comments. We don't know if INEOS approves or not but the whole Rashford business could and should have been sorted in a more diplomatic way - and that's looking at both sides.
All well and good saying this but we aren't City, we can't just self fund a bit more and buy more players.
They are backing him though, he seems to have a free hit this season and a LWB profile has arrived. It's much better this way, as awful as form is, because we actually get to see how capable a coach is of putting a style into place. We'll stay clear of relegation, it will be a poor season but hopefully it ends with some kind of momentum and people have a bit more faith by then (lord knows I need it)
They won't be able to support him in the summer enough either.
They'll get him 3 or max 4 players for the starting 11. He will need much more than that to be honest.
At minimum we need a new starting:
GK
Wing Back
Striker
Centre Back
And for the bench/starting:
No10/winger
And a CM
We can live without a CB and even possibly a GK (although I'd be happy enough if we get a good few for Onana). We do need a RWB and two forwards though. We desperately need a starting CF and a goal scoring forward to rotate with Garnacho.
Hopefully we've got it right with Dorgu.
Can't live without a keeper for me. Onana is abysmal.
I don't buy the poverty narrative. When you consider the millions frittered away in sacking Ten Hag and Ashworth. And the fact the board were happy to turn their backs on Qatari money. If we ARE poor why aren't we insisting Amorim get the best out of the players we are now actually paying other clubs to take on loan - Rashford, Antony and Sancho - weakening the numbers in our squad. That's Amorim's job as a coach. To get the best of his players. But he is stuck in his constraining philosophy which by the way wasn't so rigid that he could play a false nine.
Meanwhile we asset strip by dumping players without replacing.
It's a shocking state of affairs.
We need the Glazers and their puppets Ineos out.
With all due respect, that could be done by Ineos regardless of the manager. That's not to say Amorim isn't doing the right thing but they could bring anyone in to facilitate that. I still maintain we give him time but I don't agree with the premise that this season is a free hit and therefore the manager can do no wrong.
To be honest I didn't know what to expect, I havent followed the portuguese league and knew nothing of him. I did hope he would do better than he has though, no miracles but better.
Onana was statistically performing better than every other keeper in the league under ETH and Ruud at the start of the season but has gone downhill since Amorin came in with those silly mistakes creeping back in, I replacing the goalkeeping coach just as is was settled and on form has affected him badly.
West Ham just put in a really decent performance with a 343 against Chelsea. It can be done.
It should still matter a little, I think we forget that people have paid or will pay quite a lot of money to go to games. We certainly can't expect miracles, but I think it's fair to expect that we won't turn in an abject performance in every home game.
The control aspect is a bit of an illusion at the moment in my opinion. We all wanted to move away from the chaotic football of Ten Hag's tenure and have a bit more control in games, but not so far the other way that we've lots of possession but slow possession with too many touches, too many passes sideways and backwards, and few chances being created as a result of the slow and safe passing.
I don't think I can be sure we're seeing progress until we start doing more damage with the possession.
He'll be here in the summer,with a full pre season ahead of him and getting players in that suit his system,Judge him then.
Did they have the same players? I’m told it can’t be done hahaha
Yes, like United did against better opposition already this season
Oh I agree, but they have to do something, even if that means selling Garnacho, Rashford and Mainoo in the summer if they've proven they're not up to it in any capacity this season. The fans won't tolerate another season like this one, especially when the manager hasn't been backed in the slightest. You also wonder how long he'll put up with this.
Amorim is trying play with more control and less risk taking. I seriously doubt that it will be successful unless we are City, Liverpool and Arsenal. Players are taking less risk and opponents are loading up each side to nullify Amad and Garnacho, it is easy to play United. I think Amorim is the right man for this club to change the culture but if players continue to play it safe then we will be a mid table team even millions to fund Amorim. I am fine with Rashford and Antony leaving the club as they are not contributing anything to this club. I just hope Amorim knows what he is doing, if things are still shit in his 3rd season then I expect that a new coach will come in.
Yeah I think that is a fair position to have. I'd say I'm similar, I was excited to see a new manager and his style, however, I do think he should be doing better than what he is currently showing. It is very hard though to separate and Identify where the underperforming is due to the state of the club and where it may be down to Amorim underperforming. I do feel that it has drifted a little bit into the territory of the manager is now contributing to the under performance.
How did Aaron Wan Bissaka get on at RWB?
I'm inclined to agree with this. I'm not into the idea that it's fine to tank a season just because we want to play differently. Football doesn't need to be as hard as we make it. It should be possible to implement new ideas, slowly but surely if necessary, but there doesn't need to be a prerequisite that we are mostly utterly shite for an undetermined amount of time before things start improving. Plenty teams improve gradually (or sometimes fairly quickly) without it needing to be a horror show first.
I’d like to know what was discussed in the interview process. Did Ineos promise him funds in Jan? Was he told he’d have to work with what he’s got for the foreseeable future, which he agreed to? If the former then he’s been sold short and if the latter he’s severely underestimated the league and the ineptitude of the squad he’s taken over.
The irony was that Marco Silva when at Hull religiously played 343/3421 system and Maguire was his main man as he had great results with Hull against Liverpool and United, he resigned went to Watford, did well got tapped up by Everton left Watford then got fired at Everton, all that PL experience of success and failure until he found his mojo with Fulham, Silva also won trophies with sporting, also won the league in Greece and through his 14 year managerial career, he’s learned to adapt to be successful and relevant, I’m not saying he’s the greatest manager in the PL but he’s currently a better fit for United than Amorim, purely because he’s more flexible and has more experience.
Now in reality Ruben Amorim might be a vastly superior Coach and may go onto win much bigger trophies but my bet is if he fails at United and then wants another huge Gig like Bayern, Barcelona, Madrid, PSG, Juventus most of those teams will demand that he plays 433, now if he doesn’t adapt in certain games, the only big gigs that will tolerate his inflexibility will be United, Inter Milan and maybe a mid tier PL club if he’s successful by playing his Sporting brand of all out attacking 3421 system with Wingers as wing backs not defenders so the team plays a 5221 system.
Here’s why I think his huge inexperience of PL football is affecting the club massively.
1. He’s seriously undermining the development of young players like Yoro, Garnaucho, Amad and Kobbie. By chopping and changing their positions week in week out, play Amad and Garnaucho as wing backs only that’s their best position in this system high and wide attacking opposition defences, Kobbie is a 10 in this system and Yoro looks exposed at either RCB or LCB he’s clearly a CB but too young to start at moment.
2. He’s indirectly called out his players not good !
3. He’s ostracised Rashford and now look we’ve got 2 less strikers with Antony gone as well.
4. Any United Coach who loses 8 from his first 19 matches and only wins the same amount is a huge concern but then in EPL he loses 7 PL games (54%) in their first 13 PL games which is why he’s under huge pressure.
5. He needs to start wining games to win time as those where his words not mine and so far he’s losing games and therefore losing time!
He has a 54% loss rate in the EPL after 13 games if that continues after 20-25 games he’s gone!
It would be a slight not just on his inflexibility in the best and most difficult league in the world but would also show that Berrada should keep his noise out of on field football matters and concentrate on marketing deals to bring in more cash something Woodward was actually very good at but no good at being Football Director, I thought when we got rid of Woodward we had moved away from that model!
Or now he has more time to instill it all. Because the higher ups aren’t as fickler as the fans.
The same higher ups that reportedly sacked Dan Ashworth only 3 months after he joined just because he was against the appointment of Ruben Amorim?
I like Amorim, he has charisma, presence, and clear tactical ideas. But his niche system is a HUGE risk. If he fails to deliver, we’re stuck with players suited only to his niche approach, leading to another costly squad overhaul.
It's not even Amorim's fault, but our club’s lack of a consistent footballing identity. We've jumped from Moyes to Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole, Ten Hag, and now Amorim - each with a different philosophy, each requiring new players, and each exit costing money.
Look at Liverpool: Rodgers to Klopp to Slot - different coaches, but a clear style has meant minimal disruption. We need that. The manager should bring his own blueprint, but within an overarching system that ensures continuity. Constant resets are unsustainable as you can see with our dire finances.
What shocks me is that they were keen on Tuchel, McKenna and others. Amorim wasn't even first choice. They suddenly decided they wanted 3 at the back? This is a massive a red flag on INEOS.
It's not even Amorim's fault, but our club’s lack of a consistent footballing identity. We've jumped from Moyes to Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole, Ten Hag, and now Amorim - each with a different philosophy, each requiring new players, and each exit costing money.
Look at Liverpool: Rodgers to Klopp to Slot - different coaches, but a clear style has meant minimal disruption. We need that. The manager should bring his own blueprint, but within an overarching system that ensures continuity. Constant resets are unsustainable as you can see with our dire finances.
What shocks me is that they were keen on Tuchel, McKenna and others. Amorim wasn't even first choice. They suddenly decided they wanted 3 at the back? This is a massive a red flag on INEOS.
Liverpool’s squad could play in many systems, because the players are all of a much higher quality. Good players don’t need to be wedded to a specific formation.
Yeh the ones who decided to listen to Wilcox and Berrada instead of Ashworth who both pushed heavily for Amorim. The ones who have essentially put Wilcox more in the dof role since. Yes, those ones. Based on all of that I think they’ve made a longer term bet here.
There's nothing delusional about it - INEOS clearly brought him in with the remit to change everything (or as much as money will allow), literally in his first interview he was talking about the new formation and that it was going to be a rough ride. There's no way he would have been saying that at the outset if he'd been told to just steady the ship, raise morale and consolidate our position.
Results are poor at the moment - that is inarguable - but because his remit is wider than, say, Moyes' at Everton (just keep us up David!) I'm not gonna use them as the sole metric to judge him on after 3 months.
More than 3 months! I mean, if we lose the next 10 games on the trot then I reserve the right to change my mind, but if results are still up and down then he at least needs the summer and the first few months of next season.
Let down Glazeos , now pundits are turning on him.
And that's why it is naive to think that the players will improve over the summer after learning Amorim's delicate system.
INEOS have brought in Dorgu. So that is one box ticked.
I’d much rather take this rebuild slow and steady and look a further ahead to the summer.
My opinion would change very quickly if INEOS booted Amorim out in the next few months, without giving him a real chance.
But for now I’ll stay calm.
I’d much rather take this rebuild slow and steady and look a further ahead to the summer.
My opinion would change very quickly if INEOS booted Amorim out in the next few months, without giving him a real chance.
But for now I’ll stay calm.
I see little progress. We are still at best when we can defend in a low block, but terrible when we have to attack. Hence we are terrible at home; can't defend higher up and can't score.
Can you point to a report that claims Ashworth was sacked? Every report I've seen made it clear that it was a mutual agreement, as there was a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.
Well Ashworth was right to not want him the same way that Liverpool were right to not want him, the appointment of Ruben Amorim mid-season when our squad was not suitable for his system abd we would be unable to back him in the January transfer window was a terrible decision.
We’re only poor for this period. We’re not poor in general - we could have spent more but for psr.