Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Our squad looks really thin to tackle a potential 28-30 more games (assuming we make it all the way in the FA cup and Europa) left to play in the next 117 days. We have good numbers in defense, but our midfield and attack, especially #10's, are seriously lacking in numbers.

We have Ugarte, Mainoo, Collyer, Casemiro & Eriksen for the midfield but the later two hardly get any minutes and don't seem to have the manager;s trust. Collyer is very inexperienced and Mainoo is going through the second season syndrome. We should look to offload Casemiro and try to get Douglas Luiz or someone else on loan in the next 6 days. Given that Ugarte also struggles to complete two games in a week, it is imperative another addition is made.

#10 is more worrying, imo. Amad, Bruno (who also plays as one of the midfield two) and Garnacho are the only starters we have for the position. Rashford is in the doghouse and Mount is defunct at this stage. We need to find a solution to the Rashford situation and get another #10 in, or we'd struggle badly if one of Amad or Bruno is unavailable even for a little period.

You could be the best manager in history but you still need fit players to win football games. I am afraid that we are going to struggle for numbers for the rest of the season if we don't strengthen those two positions for Ruben in the next 6 days. We have a great chance to win Europa this season and qualify for next s season'champions league, I hope we are able to get the manager the help he needs to achieve it.
 
ciastosz said:
He didn't throw anyone under the bus and he didn't feed negative stories about United. He simply stressed out his approach and standards he expects from his player. Moreover he kinda proved that he meant it with the way he handled Garnacho.

Siege mentality is great if you have a group of professionals and winners. British press keeps asking the same questions and won't stop, and it will be fed by Rashord's PR team with more bullshit. It was the same with the previous managers who've chosen the approach you are suggesting. So it's refreshing to see something different from Amorim and hopefully will change the narrative around this topic, sending the message to the rest of the squad (especially young ones looking up to Rashford)
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Amorim threw Rashford under the bus, drove it over him and backed up for good measure.

I‘ll drive myself next time.

Rashford had it coming for a long time now. Turns out, Ten Hag was too patient with him and Amorim finally called it.

Like Sancho, Rashford probably won‘t react positively to this. We need to get rid.
 
All I've gotten from this saga is we need to be ready to offload Rashford for free if anyone is willing to pay his wages. Horrible support for a mediocre player. Let's not get it twisted this saga started when he released his statement of intent to leave rather than wanting to prove the manager wrong. He owed Amorim an apology after that. It might have had a chance to transpire behind closed doors if not for that. Amorim didn't just come out and single anyone out of nowhere.

Standards dropped so low we convinced a player his one good attribute in a sea of awful touches is enough to be exempt from defensive duty. Just hover above the halfway line waiting for everyone to serve you. Stupid circus. I think the worst part is you can kinda tell a lot of jabs Amorim's methods are taking are actually over his showing non-bias to name favourites. People just aren't overt about it and it's the closest a player has felt to being bigger than managers.
 
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giggs-beckham said:
He means that it sends the wrong message to select a player on the bench who doesn't try hard enough in training.
He's trying to change the culture at the club and stick to his principles. He's no ETH you know.
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I think that poster wishes he was ETH. He would defend ETH adamantly after 18 months of failure and 6 transfer windows and 3 pre seasons. Yet almost every post I see lately from them is critical of RA who joined mid season with the club in 14th and in free fall. Unbelievable.
 
Gordon S said:
You expect Rashford to survive Amorim..? Nightmare fuel.
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Rashford is on very high wages and has a contract till 2028. After everything Amorim has said in public, it will be very hard to sell him. I expect Rashford to stay, like Bale did at Real Madrid. In 2028 he will be 30, he can go to SA or USA for another nice paycheck. Anyway, I think Amorim made a blunder in this case, he should have said nothing in public and just sell the player. Discussing Rashford with the press does not help Amorim, or the team, in any way.
 
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frostbite said:
Rashford is on very high wages and has a contract till 2028. After everything Amorim has said in public, it will be very hard to sell him. I expect Rashford to stay, like Bale did at Real Madrid. In 2028 he will be 30, he can go to SA or USA for another nice paycheck. Anyway, I think Amorim made a blunder in this case, he should have said nothing in public and just sell the player. Discussing Rashford with the press does not help Amorim, or the team, in any way.
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I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever. Everyone was aware of his situation already. They all knew that he hadn't played for several weeks because the manager doesn't think he's training hard enough. The comments make no difference.
 
frostbite said:
Rashford is on very high wages and has a contract till 2028. After everything Amorim has said in public, it will be very hard to sell him. I expect Rashford to stay, like Bale did at Real Madrid. In 2028 he will be 30, he can go to SA or USA for another nice paycheck. Anyway, I think Amorim made a blunder in this case, he should have said nothing in public and just sell the player. Discussing Rashford with the press does not help Amorim, or the team, in any way.
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He can probably leave tonight if the club decides his trouble is not worth even a sizable fee. Maybe not even the biggest financial hit this season. Ashworth proves even cold businessmen at INEOS are willing to eat the cost if they really want someone out. I don't think he's necessarily still here because we can't find a buyer. Probably just holding off to squeeze as much as possible.
 
Bright_Eyes said:
I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever. Everyone was aware of his situation already. They all knew that he hadn't played for several weeks because the manager doesn't think he's training hard enough. The comments make no difference.
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It does make a difference. For Rashford. And Rashford has to agree to move. That's what a contract means.
 
Insanity said:
Our squad looks really thin to tackle a potential 28-30 more games (assuming we make it all the way in the FA cup and Europa) left to play in the next 117 days. We have good numbers in defense, but our midfield and attack, especially #10's, are seriously lacking in numbers.

We have Ugarte, Mainoo, Collyer, Casemiro & Eriksen for the midfield but the later two hardly get any minutes and don't seem to have the manager;s trust. Collyer is very inexperienced and Mainoo is going through the second season syndrome. We should look to offload Casemiro and try to get Douglas Luiz or someone else on loan in the next 6 days. Given that Ugarte also struggles to complete two games in a week, it is imperative another addition is made.

#10 is more worrying, imo. Amad, Bruno (who also plays as one of the midfield two) and Garnacho are the only starters we have for the position. Rashford is in the doghouse and Mount is defunct at this stage. We need to find a solution to the Rashford situation and get another #10 in, or we'd struggle badly if one of Amad or Bruno is unavailable even for a little period.

You could be the best manager in history but you still need fit players to win football games. I am afraid that we are going to struggle for numbers for the rest of the season if we don't strengthen those two positions for Ruben in the next 6 days. We have a great chance to win Europa this season and qualify for next s season'champions league, I hope we are able to get the manager the help he needs to achieve it.
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We literally have nothing to play for, top 5 looks out. Europa win is a bridge too far with our current condition

Plus no Europe at all is good next season the players can focus on the league.

Most clubs that misses out Europe completely tend to do much better in the league

Now is the best time for a cull
 
frostbite said:
It does make a difference. For Rashford. And Rashford has to agree to move. That's what a contract means.
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Alrighty then, he should now be more open to lowering his destination demands. Masterclass from Amorim. Should consider a stint as CEO.
 
Greck said:
He can probably leave tonight if the club decides his trouble is not worth even a sizable fee. Maybe not even the biggest financial hit this season. Ashworth proves even cold businessmen at INEOS are willing to eat the cost if they really want someone out. I don't think he's necessarily still here because we can't find a buyer. Probably just holding off to squeeze as much as possible.
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Do you know of any other cases, at any time, that a PL club paid 55+ million pounds to buy out a player's contract, just for the player to leave for free and join another team? If you add the 50 million that a sale might potentially bring, and this is like a 100+ million hit to the club finances! In the club's financial statements, the players are the assets of the club (Ashworth and everyone else in managerial positions are not assets, they are liabilities only, because they cannot be "sold"), and it is not simple to just erase an asset for a huge loss.

I don't know of any such cases in real life, it would be interesting if there are actually some out there.
 
frostbite said:
Do you know of any other cases, at any time, that a PL club paid 55+ million pounds to buy out a player's contract, just for the player to leave for free and join another team? If you add the 50 million that a sale might potentially bring, and this is like a 100+ million hit to the club finances! In the club's financial statements, the players are the assets of the club, it is not simple to just erase an asset for a huge loss.

I don't know of any such cases in real life, it would be interesting if there are actually some out there.
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No that's not how it would work. You're still selling him in that scenario. The hangup is not that he has no buyers, it's that he wants to have a say in his next destiination. He wants a fancy move where he both gets his money and a big stage.

If the club is open to moving him for less the fee will still be used to subsidise the cost of paying the difference in wages. You won't make as big a profit from selling your biggest asset but you also won't make anywhere close to that kind of loss. Right now the club wants to reduce, maybe even remove the wage deficit it would take to get Rashford to f off.
 
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Greck said:
Alrighty then, he should now be more open to lowering his destination demands. Masterclass from Amorim. Should consider a stint as CEO.
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I think you have misunderstood the situation. Rashford has a guaranteed contract for 3.5 years, worth 55+ million pounds in total. I think he will be open to any moves if, and only if, he makes more money, there is no reason for him to move if he is going to make less. And there is absolutely no way for the club to force a move. The only thing the club can do is to pay out his contract and let him leave for free. Which probably will mean the club has a huge loss in its books.

Another way out is if Rashford goes for a loan, the other team pays a part of his wages, Man Utd pays the rest. Man Utd loses again, because they are paying the wages of a player that someone else is using. This is a loss-loss situation for the club.
 
frostbite said:
I think you have misunderstood the situation. Rashford has a guaranteed contract for 3.5 years, worth 55+ million pounds in total. I think he will be open to any moves if, and only if, he makes more money, there is no reason for him to move if he is going to make less. And there is absolutely no way for the club to force a move. The only thing the club can do is to pay out his contract and let him leave for free. Which probably will mean the club has a huge loss in its books.

Another way out is if Rashford goes for a loan, the other team pays a part of his wages, Man Utd pays the rest. Man Utd loses again, because they are paying the wages of a player that someone else is using. This is a loss-loss situation for the club.
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No one said anything about leaving for £0. The Ashworth thing is analogy about ruthless, not stupid asset management.
 
frostbite said:
I think you have misunderstood the situation. Rashford has a guaranteed contract for 3.5 years, worth 55+ million pounds in total. I think he will be open to any moves if, and only if, he makes more money, there is no reason for him to move if he is going to make less. And there is absolutely no way for the club to force a move. The only thing the club can do is to pay out his contract and let him leave for free. Which probably will mean the club has a huge loss in its books.

Another way out is if Rashford goes for a loan, the other team pays a part of his wages, Man Utd pays the rest. Man Utd loses again, because they are paying the wages of a player that someone else is using. This is a loss-loss situation for the club.
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Off course. But losing 55M and 20M is a totally different scenario

Rashford can be sold. The question is at what loss?

If we pay him 250K and the buyer only needs to subsidize 50k then clubs will be queing as his marketable image alone is worth more than 50k per week.

Giving him for free also works. It simply means the club is paying a package of 55M (on wage) without sale price.

Obviously we wont make a profit and it's a loss regardless. But again a total 55M loss and a partial of that is totally different thing. Plus we have all the time in the world, we're paying him 350k per week but Rashford is paying with being frozen out and humiliated whored out non stop. His choice. Money or dignity.
 
Sky1981 said:
Off course. But losing 55M and 20M is a totally different scenario

Rashford can be sold. The question is at what loss?

If we pay him 250K and the buyer only needs to subsidize 50k then clubs will be queing as his marketable image alone is worth more than 50k per week.

Giving him for free also works. It simply means the club is paying a package of 55M (on wage) without sale price.

Obviously we wont make a profit and it's a loss regardless. But again a total 55M loss and a partial of that is totally different thing. Plus we have all the time in the world, we're paying him 350k per week but Rashford is paying with being frozen out and humiliated whored out non stop. His choice. Money or dignity.
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For Rashford to be sold, Rashford has to agree, too.
 
frostbite said:
For Rashford to be sold, Rashford has to agree, too.
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He has practically already agreed. Hence the whole reason we are here, at the stage of negotiating the destination and terms of said departure. He will now need to be realistic to make it happen.
 
Sky1981 said:
Off course. But losing 55M and 20M is a totally different scenario

Rashford can be sold. The question is at what loss?

If we pay him 250K and the buyer only needs to subsidize 50k then clubs will be queing as his marketable image alone is worth more than 50k per week.

Giving him for free also works. It simply means the club is paying a package of 55M (on wage) without sale price.

Obviously we wont make a profit and it's a loss regardless. But again a total 55M loss and a partial of that is totally different thing. Plus we have all the time in the world, we're paying him 350k per week but Rashford is paying with being frozen out and humiliated whored out non stop. His choice. Money or dignity.
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Yes, if we pay 55 million and let him go for free, we are losing 55 million as you say.

However, in financial terms, we also lost the "asset Rashford". I have no idea how much is that in our books, but I am sure it is a large number. That's the money we could potentially get if we sold Rashford, perhaps 40-50-70 million.

The total loss will not be only 55 million, but much more. This is important for the financial situation of the club.
 
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frostbite said:
Yes, if we pay 55 million and let him go for free, we are losing 55 million as you say.

However, in financial terms, we also lost the "asset Rashford". I have no idea how much is that in our books, but I am sure it is a large number. That's the money we could potentially get if we sold Rashford, perhaps 40-50-70 million.

The total loss will not be only 55 million, but much more. This is important for the financial situation of the club.
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Does it matter? It's a loss either way. Since you can't sell him for north of 50M. Not like we dont want but there's no taker, his stock are only going down from here on since he's frozen out.

Not like we dont want, but it's not happening.
 
Sky1981 said:
Does it matter? It's a loss either way. Since you can't sell him for north of 50M. Not like we dont want but there's no taker, his stock are only going down from here on since he's frozen out.

Not like we dont want, but it's not happening.
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Of course it matters. I don't know the details of our financial situation, but from what I am reading in redcafe, we don't have much money to spend for transfers, due to Financial Fair Play rules and regulations. If we just throw 100 million to the trash, then that's 100 million less for our future transfer funds!

That's why it is better for the club to just keep the player even if he is not playing. The club will be amortizing the cost of the wages over 3.5 years, and it will not have the additional hit of losing an asset. It's much better for the club's balance sheet. That's why Real Madrid kept Bale. Financial considerations are important.
 
frostbite said:
Of course it matters. I don't know the details of our financial situation, but from what I am reading in redcafe, we don't have much money to spend for transfers, due to Financial Fair Play rules and regulations. If we just throw 100 million to the trash, then that's 100 million less for our future transfer funds!

That's why it is better for the club to just keep the player even if he is not playing. The club will be amortizing the cost of the wages over 3.5 years, and it will not have the additional hit of losing an asset. It's much better for the club's balance sheet. That's why Real Madrid kept Bale. Financial considerations are important.
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This just comes across as a case for keeping him. Don't worry, we don't have to buy him out to move him. We can put that to bed. You also don't put him on the transfer market without the knowledge you might take a loss. It's like selling a car that guzzles more fuel than you can afford. With selling such an asset a profit would be nice but that's not the only motivation. The motivation is as much to control the inevitable future loss. His value was never going to rise beyond January.
 
frostbite said:
After everything Amorim has said in public, it will be very hard to sell him.
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What did the club gain from Amorim’s stupid comment?

Interested clubs already had concerns with Rashford. Amorim confirmed the concerns and reduced his value.
 
JoseM4 said:
What did the club gain from Amorim’s stupid comment?

Interested clubs already had concerns with Rashford. Amorim confirmed the concerns and reduced his value.
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Pretty sure him doing all the things he has done in the past 3-4 years have shown everything those clubs need to know more than what Amorim said in one occassion. People seem to think all the clubs do are watching press conferences... they do have scouts, dof or similar position you know. Their research must be way deeper than that.
 
tenpoless said:
Pretty sure him doing all the things he has done in the past 3-4 years have shown everything those clubs need to know more than what Amorim said in one occassion. People seem to think all the clubs do are watching press conferences... they do have scouts, dof or similar position you know. Their research must be way deeper than that.
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Crazy to think one statement by Amorim would make any difference when he has refused to even put him on bench for a month despite us suffering losses after losses.
 
giggs-beckham said:
He means that it sends the wrong message to select a player on the bench who doesn't try hard enough in training.
He's trying to change the culture at the club and stick to his principles. He's no ETH you know.
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Nothing to do with ten hag and I never disagreed with what he said. I know what he means too. Read what is being debated.
 
frostbite said:
Rashford is on very high wages and has a contract till 2028. After everything Amorim has said in public, it will be very hard to sell him.
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I find this notion a little weird yet it gets shared here quite often.
Amorim could call him vital to the system and praise him to high heaven, that would change nothing. Everyone with eyeballs can see Rashford isnt really doing his best in matches and his behaviour off the pitch is out in the open as well. On top of that he has absurd wages.
Those are the factors behind why we cant get rid of him. The managers words mean very little compared to the players actions.
 
a little concerning that his first signing appears to be a boring fullback (defender) when neymar (brazil) has just been released.
 
frostbite said:
Rashford is on very high wages and has a contract till 2028. After everything Amorim has said in public, it will be very hard to sell him. I expect Rashford to stay, like Bale did at Real Madrid. In 2028 he will be 30, he can go to SA or USA for another nice paycheck. Anyway, I think Amorim made a blunder in this case, he should have said nothing in public and just sell the player. Discussing Rashford with the press does not help Amorim, or the team, in any way.
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Perhaps Amorim should hire Rashfords PR team to post shite about how great Rashford is. I'm sure the thicko's at Real Madrid, Bayern and City will sit up and take notice. "what? Rashford is giving 110% in training?? He's putting in extra hours in the gym? He's handing out free socks to homeless people?!? Well shit, we better call his agent"

Stupid Amorim, speaking the truth and making Rashford unsellable.
 
Roane said:
I know the focus, from Amorims comments, has become solely Rashy but I don't think it's just him.

I think the comments are for Casemiro too.

Now I always liked Casemiro as a player, even before UTD. However since he signed for us I feel he hasn't really looked as if he is " working hard". He seems to coast through games .

I think him not playing recently is as big an issue as Rashy not playing. The obvious difference being he hasn't gone to the media.
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Cas is not exiled, he is in the bench for every game, that indicates he is training as hard as he could, otherwise Amorim will drop him from the match squad.

Cas is also known to be a model pro, he was in one of the most intolerable and pressure environment in Football at RM, where club management and fans do not accept excuses, he wouldn't have lasted all these years at Madrid if he was lazy and I suspect that he is any different at United.

The simple explanation is that Amorim thinks that Cas does not fit into what he requires of his midfield and he alluded to the fact that the PL is so intense that you need players who can physically cope with it, Cas can't and that's all there is to it.
 
Hi comments devalue an unsellable Rashford - perhaps one last kick up the arse to crack on or get out.

It also serves as a driving force for other players.

If you give your all in training and Rashford walking around laughing with his head down starts ahead of you it does no good things for the team.
 
Sky1981 said:
We literally have nothing to play for, top 5 looks out. Europa win is a bridge too far with our current condition

Plus no Europe at all is good next season the players can focus on the league.

Most clubs that misses out Europe completely tend to do much better in the league

Now is the best time for a cull
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We definitely have a lot to play for this season. A Europa win would be good for a club struggling for finances, both regards to this season and the next season through CL qualification. We are not in the soundest financial state and have been losing our charm over the last XII years. More money and the lure of CL will help us target and entice better players.

Given the teams in Europa I don't think it's a bridge too far for us. We should easily be the favorites for this competition in our current state.
 
Bright_Eyes said:
I don't think it makes any difference whatsoever. Everyone was aware of his situation already. They all knew that he hadn't played for several weeks because the manager doesn't think he's training hard enough. The comments make no difference.
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It doesn't. Every club interested in Rashford will know what he is like. They will know that if a "star player" isn't even on the bench then they are really in the dog house for whatever reason and with Rashford its pretty clear what that reason is.
 
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