Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Judas said:
Nah no he doesn't, not for me anyway. Depends how we're looking, whats going on with our football. You want winning at any cost? Why? What's the gain long term? I want to see progress as a proper football side with an identity.

Now I do think we should be aiming for top 5, but has to? Not necessarily. Setting yourself up for disappointment if you think he must achieve that without even a full season to do it.
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Fugeeface said:
Yes, absolutely.

A league position isn't a platform. I don't care if we finish in the lower half. It would be a reality check, although I do rate our squad. We just don't have a team yet.

What he wants to implement is a radical change and will take time. We won't be transformed within three months. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and things click. That would be great, but I am not that hopeful.

So what happens if he doesn't win that many games and on top of that we fail in the Europa? Should he be sacked
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I do understand what both are saying however; for me, if you are playing relatively well, you will win more games than you lose.



League position is exactly the platform for future success, not just position, league form too. The reality check is already there, which is why Ten Hag was sacked, he underachieved.

Obviously, I don’t think he will be sacked neither will I call for his sacking but say we are bottom half, the reason would be because we are not playing well, which means he isn’t improving us.

I don’t buy this theory that change takes time, there is plenty of evidence over the last 3 years that change can be done in months or less.


Chelsea, Villa, Spurs, Liverpool, Brighton have all shown that change can be implemented within 3 months. If he is a top coach, as people think he is (I do) he will improve us massively. It only takes 5 wins on the bounce for us to be in the top 5, the teams above will drop points, so will we.


I cannot see an instance where he has changed the style and we improve and results don’t improve. Performances and results go hand in hand.
 
Will be funny if after all this speculation as who would play in his 3-4-3, he just ends up deciding to go with a 4-2-3-1 :lol:
 
Kaos said:
Will be funny if after all this speculation as who would play in his 3-4-3, he just ends up deciding to go with a 4-2-3-1 :lol:
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There’s a good chance we start with this until he’s had enough time with the players in training to work on his own formation and tactics.
 
Pexbo said:
There’s a good chance we start with this until he’s had enough time with the players in training to work on his own formation and tactics.
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I would hope not. I'd rather he starts stubborn and sticks it out with his system until it clicks, even if it means a painful early period. The sooner we lay the foundations for his 3-4-3 the better. Otherwise we might as well have just stuck it out with Ruud, 4-2-3-1 and vibes until the summer.
 
Kaos said:
Will be funny if after all this speculation as who would play in his 3-4-3, he just ends up deciding to go with a 4-2-3-1 :lol:
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As he ever coached that system? I believe he started of with a 3-4-3 from his braga days.
 
It is interesting that both of our top managerial prospects (Nagelsman and Amorim) prefer a back-three system, a system that has never been used by United, is foreign to most of our players, more importantly - to our academy and will likely take very long, painful time to implement. It's a huge gamble.

I think Amorim was chosen over Nagelsman because Nagelsman would never come as head coach and would be harder to manage for the club hierarchy. Maybe he also didn't want to come, but pretty sure "can we control him" was a consideration as well. He may have been more flexible tactically than Amorim, but either way - big departure from United's usual tactics in both cases.

Hope this gamble works, but there is no way it will work any time soon and it may never work at all... Interesting times ahead...
 
DJ_21 said:
As he ever coached that system? I believe he started of with a 3-4-3 from his braga days.
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Before that. After 2 defeats with his first team Casa Pia he vowed that he'll resign if he loses the next game. At that point he tried the 3 men CB system and they embarked in an unbeaten run
 
DJ_21 said:
As he ever coached that system? I believe he started of with a 3-4-3 from his braga days.
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Think he was using a different system and lost 1st two games then reverted to 3 at the back and hasn't looked back.
 
GuyfromAustria said:
Why? I'm fairly sure that was his title at every club he's been.
https://fcbayern.com/en/news/2021/04/julian-nagelsmann-to-become-fc-bayern-head-coach---hansi-flick’s-contract-terminated-as-requested
I don't think this old concept of a "manager" is a thing in Germany in modern times.
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Yeah I never saw that as an issue either.

I think Nageslmann's problem was the challenge of convincing him to leave his cushy NT job before a world cup and join our circus mid season. I also sincerely believe Amorim was our first choice anyway.
 
NewGlory said:
It is interesting that both of our top managerial prospects (Nagelsman and Amorim) prefer a back-three system, a system that has never been used by United, is foreign to most of our players, more importantly - to our academy and will likely take very long, painful time to implement. It's a huge gamble.

I think Amorim was chosen over Nagelsman because Nagelsman would never come as head coach and would be harder to manage for the club hierarchy. Maybe he also didn't want to come, but pretty sure "can we control him" was a consideration as well. He may have been more flexible tactically than Amorim, but either way - big departure from United's usual tactics in both cases.

Hope this gamble works, but there is no way it will work any time soon and it may never work at all... Interesting times ahead...
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Naglesmann definitely isn't wedded to one formation. He's used multiple different formations. He's currently using a 4-2-3-1 shape as Germany manager.
 
Kaos said:
Yeah I never saw that as an issue either.

I think Nageslmann's problem was the challenge of convincing him to leave his cushy NT job before a world cup and join our circus mid season. I also sincerely believe Amorim was our first choice anyway.
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I think the "Now or never" was a good pointer towards this being the case. Join now, or we'll move on and you'll never get the chance again.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
You're being ridiculous. You're looking at it from a club/fan POV. Yes, we need to sign young players. That's obvious.

The fact is that we haven't been a good environment for the vast majority of our 18-23 year old signings. Hence, if I were a young player, I wouldn't want join United. I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to sign young players.

I think players like Haaland and Šeško have been smart with their career choices. Haaland went from Molde to Salzburg, then to Dortmund, and now City.

Šeško has stayed within the RB network so far, which is working out well for him. He could end up at a top club in a year or two.
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I think you're being ridiculous. Of course I'm looking at it from a club/fan point of view, I'm a Manchester United supporter!

It's also not that ridiculous to see why young players would want to come here. The money and boost to personal profile is probably only rivaled by Madrid and Barcelona, for a start. It's still a huge club with a history of giving game time to young players as well. Even if that doesn't lead to league titles, that's still a big deal to a young player looking to make their name.

There's also only two clubs in the world's top leagues that guarantee trophies right now anyway - City and Real Madrid. Arsenal and Liverpool barely competed with City, and they're in, or approaching, the apex of their current team's cycle. Chelsea are just as big a basket case as us, who churn through more promising youngsters than they actually unearth. Barca are still all about the levers. Their talented academy just papers over the cracks.

So why wouldn't they come here if they fancied their chances at getting regular football? If anything, there's far less pressure on them now than when we were winning titles every other year. It's just online fans spewing vitriol without nuance they have to worry about, and you just turn off your phone to deal with that nonsense.
 
romufc said:
I do understand what both are saying however; for me, if you are playing relatively well, you will win more games than you lose.



League position is exactly the platform for future success, not just position, league form too. The reality check is already there, which is why Ten Hag was sacked, he underachieved.

Obviously, I don’t think he will be sacked neither will I call for his sacking but say we are bottom half, the reason would be because we are not playing well, which means he isn’t improving us.

I don’t buy this theory that change takes time, there is plenty of evidence over the last 3 years that change can be done in months or less.


Chelsea, Villa, Spurs, Liverpool, Brighton have all shown that change can be implemented within 3 months. If he is a top coach, as people think he is (I do) he will improve us massively. It only takes 5 wins on the bounce for us to be in the top 5, the teams above will drop points, so will we.


I cannot see an instance where he has changed the style and we improve and results don’t improve. Performances and results go hand in hand.
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Let's hope you're right. I'm rather cautious and don't expect too much.
 
Big Andy said:
I think the "Now or never" was a good pointer towards this being the case. Join now, or we'll move on and you'll never get the chance again.
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Lets be honest with ourselves, if Amorim were to continue his success with Sporting ,or someone else, the " Now or never " comment would quickly be taken back IF United continue thier downward trajectory.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Do you not watch other teams much?

I often watch City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Villa, Spurs and Brighton. If anything, it gives you perspective. Seeing how other teams play compared to us.

In fact, I think fans who don't watch other teams are a bit blinded to the state of United. There were definitely some fans who didn't realise just how bad it got under ten Hag.

I'm not saying this applies to you
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Indeed, I do watch bits n pieces of other team's games. Then I just get frustated with United more. Seeing how effortlessly other teams pop the ball about, accurately at pace and seeing us constantly misplace basic passes, or slow the ball down without need, or delay a forward pass that was on.
 
saik said:
Ehhh... just watched his interview with TNT and I don't like the way he said that he's "maybe not looking forward to the challenge of being tested every week". Could have said he can't wait for the challenge, atleast for the optics. Guy's probably a bit too honest.
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Yeah I did wonder why he said that
 
Crimson King said:
I think you're being ridiculous. Of course I'm looking at it from a club/fan point of view, I'm a Manchester United supporter!

It's also not that ridiculous to see why young players would want to come here. The money and boost to personal profile is probably only rivaled by Madrid and Barcelona, for a start. It's still a huge club with a history of giving game time to young players as well. Even if that doesn't lead to league titles, that's still a big deal to a young player looking to make their name.

There's also only two clubs in the world's top leagues that guarantee trophies right now anyway - City and Real Madrid. Arsenal and Liverpool barely competed with City, and they're in, or approaching, the apex of their current team's cycle. Chelsea are just as big a basket case as us, who churn through more promising youngsters than they actually unearth. Barca are still all about the levers. Their talented academy just papers over the cracks.

So why wouldn't they come here if they fancied their chances at getting regular football? If anything, there's far less pressure on them now than when we were winning titles every other year. It's just online fans spewing vitriol without nuance they have to worry about, and you just turn off your phone to deal with that nonsense.
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Maybe its me but it seems that some fans dont actually realise how big Manchester United is.
Not only is it the money and profile that players will get, if you back yourself enough, you could become a cult hero, the fans love the players, just look at some of the reception ex players get.

Unless you are the Creme de la creme, where Real are after you, United is definitely a place for young players, one of the few clubs that give young players a chance. How many other clubs do that?
 
NLunited said:
One is a false nine, the other a pressing machine. Regarding Zirkzee I’d say, remember Firmino at Pool?

Zirkzee is a work in progress. He has to get fitter and react quicker to make it in PL.
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I hope we're progressing him straight to the Transfer list.
 
NLunited said:
One is a false nine, the other a pressing machine. Regarding Zirkzee I’d say, remember Firmino at Pool?

Zirkzee is a work in progress. He has to get fitter and react quicker to make it in PL.
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Zirkzee is nothing like Firminho.
 
romufc said:
Maybe its me but it seems that some fans dont actually realise how big Manchester United is.
Not only is it the money and profile that players will get, if you back yourself enough, you could become a cult hero, the fans love the players, just look at some of the reception ex players get.

Unless you are the Creme de la creme, where Real are after you, United is definitely a place for young players, one of the few clubs that give young players a chance. How many other clubs do that?
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Lots.

Dortmund, Spurs, Brighton, Barcelona, Leipzig, etc.
 
Fallon d'Floor said:
Lots.

Dortmund, Spurs, Brighton, Barcelona, Leipzig, etc.
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Spurs, Brighton and Leipzig play young players but they are absolutely not in the same category as us. That's not even arrogance speaking but the sheer size of the club, fanbase and expectations dwarfs any of these clubs (even combined).
 
Ruben Amorim starts on Monday, I hope those that arnt on International Duty stay at Carrington instead of disappearing on a holiday so Ruben can get to weeks of training sessions with them before his first game.
 
Kaos said:
Will be funny if after all this speculation as who would play in his 3-4-3, he just ends up deciding to go with a 4-2-3-1 :lol:
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Most likely. Without preseason there isn't much time for major changes and with so many games on the calendar, training is basically to keep fitness levels up and some tactical training to prepare some defensive and attacking patterns adapted to the oposition.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Ruben Amorim starts on Monday, I hope those that arnt on International Duty stay at Carrington instead of disappearing on a holiday so Ruben can get to weeks of training sessions with them before his first game.
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That's what usually happens: players not called up train everyday.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Ruben Amorim starts on Monday, I hope those that arnt on International Duty stay at Carrington instead of disappearing on a holiday so Ruben can get to weeks of training sessions with them before his first game.
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Do you know which players are actually out for international duty? How many of the first XI-ish players (Onana, Dalot, Yoro, Martinez, De Ligt, Mazraoui, Mainoo, Ugarte, Casemiro, Bruno, Garnacho, Mount, Rashford, Hojlund, Zirkzee) will be available?
 
FriedClams said:
Our fanbase is incapable of this. Make no mistake, if Amorim goes on a losing streak and we aren't playing well, it'll be spun that he's not able to deal with the pressure of managing here and he'll eventually be sacked.
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ETH had the team playing awful football for over a year and one game was enough for 50% on the Caf, which is arguably the most harsh portion of the online fanbase, to back the manager. Outside of the caf, it was an overwhelming majority of fans who were supporting him.

This is not true at all.
 
FriedClams said:
Our fanbase is incapable of this. Make no mistake, if Amorim goes on a losing streak and we aren't playing well, it'll be spun that he's not able to deal with the pressure of managing here and he'll eventually be sacked.
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We give managers longer going through their bad patches than most. Ten Hag hadn’t even lost Old Trafford yet.
 
romufc said:
Performances and results go hand in hand.
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This is the most important thing, the performance levels of this team has been low for quite awhile, tactics and style are important for sure but good or great performance is what will allow those tactics to work, Ten Hag didn't fail only because his tactics were shit/ not working, he failed because he also didn't manage to get these players to consistently perform at a higher level.

The better the team performs the better the results, the better the results the higher the league table, Amorim, regardless of what tactics or formation he deploys, will have to get the players to consistently perform better, it might not get us top 4 or win a cup but it will build the foundation of success, if he can't do that soon, he is toast too.
 
Bowlcut11 said:
Spurs, Brighton and Leipzig play young players but they are absolutely not in the same category as us. That's not even arrogance speaking but the sheer size of the club, fanbase and expectations dwarfs any of these clubs (even combined).
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Correct. But he mentioned clubs, not a specific type of club.

The reality is that we're now in an era where more and more teenagers are breaking through younger. Some as young as 16/17.

It's becoming common across Europe. Bellingham has already played over 270 games at 21.
 
Just seen that us getting Amorim received more attention than Rodri winning the Ballon. Levels above
 
romufc said:
This is a rhetoric I dont understand.. "I dont care about results". So you would rather him do anything he wants and lose games?

What is a platform? 10th? 12th? 14th?

He has to win games, this is why he is brought in, to do better than Ten Hag. He is rated as one of the best young coaches, he has to get us top 6 and a Europa League this season.
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Klopp in his first season ended up 8th, conceding loads of goals and losing to bottom half teams while thrashing City twice 3-0 or 4-0, knocking us and Dortmund out in the EL but also ultimately losing two finals.

Yes, there were no trophies or top-6, but it was quickly clear what Klopp was trying to do and what they were capable of on their day.

That's what some of us mean when we say we don't care about results.
 
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