Not only is your post very interesting and thought provoking, I fully support your tagline below your name.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
This is the squad he has. The team was strong enough to finish above Brighton and Fulham twice under ETH. They have won trophies in consecutive seasons, so while they may not be the best in the world, they are certainly better than Brighton and Fulham.
I have no idea if he’s going to be successful or not. But as a coach, he has a philosophy - one that he believes in, and one that he has achieved success with.
It’s unreasonable to expect him to suddenly invent something new that he hasn’t previously implemented.
What’s also clear is our squad is either not capable of playing his way, or needs time to adapt to play his way.
People are quick to treat the real world like FIFA. Change this, change that, and everyone immediately adapts and plays well. People forget that a lot of what happens on a football pitch is instinct and muscle memory, making quick decisions without confusion.
It’s therefore unreasonable to expect the players to suddenly change the fundamental style of play without serious time to create that muscle memory. It’s unreasonable to expect Amorim to suddenly change.
We won’t know if it works until we give it time. That’s the reality. How bad it can get, I don’t know.
But then that comes back not to the manager or the players, but the club overall. For too long we’ve had no strategy. No philosophy. We pick a manager and then try and create a squad in their mould. Instead of first coming up with an identity and finding a manager and players who fit that ideal. I thought we were learning with all the changes to our football operations. But I fear we aren’t. And that’s going to be a huge problem.
If we want to build a team which fits how Amorim plays - whether Amorim remains as coach or not - then we have to stick it out. Is that the plan? I have no idea. But I also am losing faith that’s the plan.
If we are building a squad just for Amorim and if he fails we will find a manager with a completely different philosophy and then try and build a squad to them, then we’ve learnt nothing and we will continue in this horrible cycle we’ve found ourselves in.
It’s unreasonable to expect him to suddenly invent something new that he hasn’t previously implemented.
What’s also clear is our squad is either not capable of playing his way, or needs time to adapt to play his way.
People are quick to treat the real world like FIFA. Change this, change that, and everyone immediately adapts and plays well. People forget that a lot of what happens on a football pitch is instinct and muscle memory, making quick decisions without confusion.
It’s therefore unreasonable to expect the players to suddenly change the fundamental style of play without serious time to create that muscle memory. It’s unreasonable to expect Amorim to suddenly change.
We won’t know if it works until we give it time. That’s the reality. How bad it can get, I don’t know.
But then that comes back not to the manager or the players, but the club overall. For too long we’ve had no strategy. No philosophy. We pick a manager and then try and create a squad in their mould. Instead of first coming up with an identity and finding a manager and players who fit that ideal. I thought we were learning with all the changes to our football operations. But I fear we aren’t. And that’s going to be a huge problem.
If we want to build a team which fits how Amorim plays - whether Amorim remains as coach or not - then we have to stick it out. Is that the plan? I have no idea. But I also am losing faith that’s the plan.
If we are building a squad just for Amorim and if he fails we will find a manager with a completely different philosophy and then try and build a squad to them, then we’ve learnt nothing and we will continue in this horrible cycle we’ve found ourselves in.
Yes, that much I agree with. Too early to definitively conclude either way IMO, given the circumstances at the club.
Amorim must be waking up every morning thinking, "What fresh hell awaits me today?" The poor lad probably thought he was signing up for a dream job at a prestigious club with an adoring fanbase. Instead, he walked into a pressure cooker full of unrealistic expectations (yep, that’s us), a squad that's more overpaid than overachieving, a stadium that’s falling apart, and owners who suddenly found religion in extreme budgeting. Welcome to the big leagues, buddy!
And to top it off, he’s trying to stick to his guns with a tactical style that’s about as effective with this squad as a fork is for eating soup. Oh, and let’s not forget the cherry on this disaster cake: his boss got sacked before he even had a chance to properly say hello to him!
Honestly, if he manages to steer this shipwreck back on course, forget sainthood—we should name the stadium after him, leaks and all.
And to top it off, he’s trying to stick to his guns with a tactical style that’s about as effective with this squad as a fork is for eating soup. Oh, and let’s not forget the cherry on this disaster cake: his boss got sacked before he even had a chance to properly say hello to him!
Honestly, if he manages to steer this shipwreck back on course, forget sainthood—we should name the stadium after him, leaks and all.
The current lot can't play his football.
He can't change his ways, so he needs a new set of players.
The club doesn't have the money to buy new players as multiple existing players are on long contracts and/or high salaries.
We are in a bit of pickle, aren't we?
He can't change his ways, so he needs a new set of players.
The club doesn't have the money to buy new players as multiple existing players are on long contracts and/or high salaries.
We are in a bit of pickle, aren't we?
That's on him. He should have done his homework. Anyone with eyes would have seen multiple managers coming here and crash and burn.
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Thanks.
given the overall state of the team, I restrain from even having the opinion about him or anything he's doing. it's simply crazy how bad it is. if we lose against Liverpool as everyone is expecting, that would leave us on 4 EPL wins since september. 4 league wins in 3 months. it's actually unbelievable how rare simply winning the fecking game has become at this club 
but late january, start of the february... he will have to show some results whether we buy someone or not. in particular during that 4 game run Southampton - Brighton - Fulham - Palace he should really be winning 2 and at least drawing vs Brighton and Fulham.
when he was managing Swansea, Laudrup said that he doesn't expect his players to play like Messi and Ronaldo, but everyone can be coached to do the basics right. same goes for United, it's not reasonable to expect improvements only after half the team is sold in summer (which won't happen anyway).
but late january, start of the february... he will have to show some results whether we buy someone or not. in particular during that 4 game run Southampton - Brighton - Fulham - Palace he should really be winning 2 and at least drawing vs Brighton and Fulham.
when he was managing Swansea, Laudrup said that he doesn't expect his players to play like Messi and Ronaldo, but everyone can be coached to do the basics right. same goes for United, it's not reasonable to expect improvements only after half the team is sold in summer (which won't happen anyway).
What kind of players do you generally need for a 3-4-3 system? Are we talking a totally different physicality? Is it more mentally? I only ask because if we only sign players suited to a 3-4-3 and end up sacking Ruben, does that mean we need another clear out if the next manager doesn’t play the same system? Seems counter productive.
This post is sarcasm.
This post is sarcasm.
To be fair no matter the formation our team is weak as piss physically, we are so easily bullied all over the pitch. We have so few players suited to this league in that department.
I'm certain that there won't be 5 losses in January. Your attitude seems to be more short term than mine.
This got worse over the last two summers as well. Mount in and McTominay out for example. I like Amad and Ugarte but they are smaller and weaker in the air than Casemiro and Rashford.
It’s been a problem for a long time that we have no obvious strengths. A player like Adama Traoré doesn’t have much talent but he’s extremely quick and strong. Others can get away with being very technically gifted while lacking some athleticism (Bernardo silva for example).
Our players tend to be in the mushy middle of not being technically brilliant and not being physical monsters. Coupled with poor decision making and it’s just not a good group.
We are going to have see major buy in to a team ethos because it’s only going to be working together with combinations and movement that can elevate individual mediocrity to better results. I think we saw some flashes of that in earlier games but this run over Christmas will have really shaken confidence both in themselves and the new coach.
Completely agree with this. Given everything that is going on (and wrong), if his only way to go through it is to stick to his plan and footballing principles … so be it, he shouldn’t be judged after a couple of months, just because fans are overcompensating for previous managers being afforded too long.
Preferring a manager who has been successful in one of the top 5 major leagues and any sort of European pedigree is not short-sighted.
Are you referring to any manager in particular?
As well as all this focus on getting the system functioning properly, I'd like to see Amorim judged on whether he can get some of our underperforming players back up to standard.
Can he get Mainoo playing like one of the brightest young talents in the game again? Can he get Martinez back to his best? Can he turn back the clock with Bruno?
Ultimately, we won't be able to scrap the whole squad so he'll need to find a way to improve the players he already has.
Can he get Mainoo playing like one of the brightest young talents in the game again? Can he get Martinez back to his best? Can he turn back the clock with Bruno?
Ultimately, we won't be able to scrap the whole squad so he'll need to find a way to improve the players he already has.
Adapt the tactics to suit to the players he has, it's quite evident the players are struggling to adapt to what Amorim wants, so the manager will have to adapt his principles, maybe play four at the back, or if it has to be a 3/5 then mix up the midfield, play three in the middle.
The issue is he isn't flexible on what he wants so far, which is leading to the mistakes and general poor play.
Pochettino.
Its pretty remarkable how quickly his career at the top ended after that. After the obligatory Spurs spell he was coaching Zenit in '14.
That is my point. Everyone is driving the point that we need players to fit a 3-4-3. We need players that work hard and know how to execute basic concepts. Not players that trot around aimlessly or constantly turn over the ball with fancy flicks and inaccurate passes or dribble into defenders every fecking time they get the chance.
I'm also confused by the dropping of Amad but its deeper than that. Amad at rwb wouldn't have saved us against Newcastle, Bournemouth or Spurs.
Amorim in the league so far: Played 8 Lost 5
Klopp first season: Played 29 Lost 8
Pep First Season: Played 38 Lost 6
There's going through it then there's whatever we're doing now.
In hindsight he should've accepted the Real offer he allegedly had after the 2013 season instead of sticking around at Spurs and getting sacked a few months later.
I’m pretty sure they was left with better conditions though. Klopp had a tough rebuild with Liverpool to be fair but they’ve never really had a toxic environment like we have for years. Aslong as the toxics here and the bad recruitment then we ain’t succeeding.
If we had no funds to spend in January then why did we go for a manager that plays a different system to 4-2-3-1 in the first halve of the season when our squad clearly don’t suit it right now?
Pep was. Klopps Liverpool is arguable.
I agree the conditions are bad but the team is not a 7 losses in 11 games team. Not for ETH, not for Mourinho, not for Amorim. He has to start doing better and asap.
Quality control
Our current manager has done nothing of note ever.
I like Amorim, he seems polite, smart and hands on in his coaching style. He also seems like a good “talker” in press conferences and media. But. I think he was all too inexperienced to take on this role. He had managed a couple of years in Portugal, that’s it.
I really think we needed an old and calm type of manager who players could feel comfortable with. A Ranieri kind of manager. Someone who has been around, seen stuff and could take the pressure off the players.
Now they instead have to rethink the whole situation again, play a new system who a guy from Portugal suddenly says is the best way of playing. The same type of guy from Holland sad the same thing a coupe of years ago.
Both Ole and, Ruud to some extent, took the pressure off and let the players play. I know that may not be a long term fix, but they did fix the mood and the confidence in the players. I can’t say that I see more confident players at the moment, rather scared and frustrated ones.
To think Amorim ideas will get through in the end is just one way of how this story may end, the players may instead feel disoriented for far too long and the cause will be lost before it even started.
I really think we needed an old and calm type of manager who players could feel comfortable with. A Ranieri kind of manager. Someone who has been around, seen stuff and could take the pressure off the players.
Now they instead have to rethink the whole situation again, play a new system who a guy from Portugal suddenly says is the best way of playing. The same type of guy from Holland sad the same thing a coupe of years ago.
Both Ole and, Ruud to some extent, took the pressure off and let the players play. I know that may not be a long term fix, but they did fix the mood and the confidence in the players. I can’t say that I see more confident players at the moment, rather scared and frustrated ones.
To think Amorim ideas will get through in the end is just one way of how this story may end, the players may instead feel disoriented for far too long and the cause will be lost before it even started.
Winning the Portuguese league twice and breaking up the stranglehold of Porto and Benfica is actually more of note than anything Poch has ever done.
Ah, ok. I don't think you're ever going to win with him though. I'm sure he'd be doing fine with us currently, but he isn't someone who is going to compete for the title. Someone who can take us to top 4, but it's not an ambitious appointment. We want to win.
The Portuguese league is 7th best league in Europe, players like Joao Felix and Darwin Núñez dominate the league, and then struggle when they move to a more competitive league.
Now that's the dumbest thing I've read all year. But I do like the confidence.
Could say the same about city aswell. There not a 5 losses in a row team. Not by a long shot but when somethings not right, maybe in the training camp then anything can go wrong. Alls it takes is a couple of bad egos and the environment and team spirit is gone.
Seriously?! Which rock have you been sleeping under?
Winning multiple trophies in the process. He knows how to win football games.
Vastly experienced Ole who managed in Norway and Wales, or vastly experienced Ruud who had one role for a few months, in Holland like the previous manager.
Well if that’s the attitude we take - yes probably!
The one were winning the 7th best league in Europe is not enough to get the Manchester United job.
Considering Pochettino's achievements at Spurs and PSG, along with the significant step up in quality from Amorim's previous league to this one, it is accurate to say he has accomplished very little in
the big leagues.
Which we have been "close" to a grand total of once since 2013 - under Ole in the midst of a pandemic. Given that our manager announced us as in danger of getting into a relegation battle, I'm not sure "title challenger" is an appropriate criteria for our manager at the moment.
But why consciously go for a manager who you know has a very obvious ceiling? We know what Pochettino is about. It's putting a limit on our ambitions.