What’s the point in trying something different? This is his system. He’s shown it works. No point chasing short term results to the detriment of long term. He needs to figure out who can play this and who can’t. He needs to drill in the movements to the players who can.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
Convinced majority of you lot have 0 clue what you're watching week to week
Do you know our best available 11? With certainty? I sure don’t.
I’m pretty sure it doesn’t include Mainoo, and confident it doesn’t include Malacia and Zirkzee, but you’re acting like there is some obvious, known ‘best 11’ at all times in all systems. But his rationale for all the decisions is understandable:
- Dalot not playing great at LWB, so testing him on his favored right side and putting in Malacia to allow for that
- Zirkzee improved us last time out off the bench, so giving him a run-out is not ludicrous. Hojlund is the better player for me but let’s not pretend he’s consistent
- Mainoo I won’t defend (vs Casemiro or Eriksen) but he seems rated so I guess other people would agree
Despite all of that, we still outperformed them (xG, shots, corners, possession, territory, etc). Comes down to poor finishing and individual errors. So again, everything you’re saying just feels like a knee-jerk and hyperbolic.
This is the honeymoon period, and it's still very early days.
But I fear for us with that next run of games.
I assume he's only ever played this 3 at the back system? Danny Murphy got pelters for daring to say he'd probably switch off a back 3 in time, but we'll see.
A lot of this is just a byproduct of the mindboggling decision of keeping Ten Hag in the summer. We would undoubtedly be in a better position if we had brought Amorim in then
- on the table
- playing/performance wise
- and likely with fewer shit players
- on the table
- playing/performance wise
- and likely with fewer shit players
The sooner people realise this the better.
Yeah mate let's bring back the 4231. Put Rashy on the left and Bruno at the 10! Hit them on the break!
It's demonstrably not when the statistics bear the evidence that we concede fewer touches in our own box than under ETH; we concede less xG per game than under ETH. What do you have to say to conceding less than 1 xG in each of our last 7 games? Did we achieve that under ETH's two-CB's? Yet we've done it seven games in a row in a completely new system that has had almost no training time at all to implement.
This.
There was never a quick fix for this. Even Klopp couldn't get much more out of his Liverpool team than Rodgers when he took over in 15/16.
He got the team and subs wrong today.
But at the same time, I don’t see how he can succeed long term with this group of players. He will win games this season but this group have and will continue to let the club down.
But at the same time, I don’t see how he can succeed long term with this group of players. He will win games this season but this group have and will continue to let the club down.
I
I genuinely can’t understand the problem with a new manager rotating his team. It just seems so logical and obvious to do?
There seem to be 2 very distinct camps on here.
Those that think this is all fine, getting smashed, conceding 3-4 goals a game and putting them down to "individual errors" and we "could have scored more".
Or those who are slightly worried that a blagged late win against a hapless City is the single rose amongst a lot of defeats.
Not all rotation is positive though. You also need to be aware that the players you're rotating into the starting eleven are diabolically poor. Like Zirkzee.
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What is our best 11? It's quite debatable because so many of them have glaring weaknesses
Kneejerk reactions. Although you might have hoped we wouldn’t lose to Forest and Bournemouth at home, then again look at the table and they are no mugs.
Yep.
It's like people can't understand that the issue can both be shit players AND a shit coach. We got rid of one, now we have to get rid of the other. Put Pep in charge of this side and it wouldn't be much better, but people want to moan about Amorim even though every metric shows we've out played majority of teams and individual mistakes are doing us in.
Erik gave Ruben a steaming pile and its going time, possibly years, to take the pile to the dump.
Yep. Forest game was an absolute freak and today was a mix. We’re getting very little luck at the min combined with some players just being very brain dead.
Amorim hasn't won 2 consecutive Premier League games since he arrived.
Not to go at him.
But surely, winning just 2 league games on the bounce isn't that hard or isn't asking for too much.
He's got this season as a complete pass from me. Yes I expect to see some progress, but I'm not expecting much from us.
When we changed manager I wanted someone to come in and get us playing a recognisable style of play more than anything else. Get the team playing a modern brand of football and then go from there moving forward.
From the start of next season I'll start judging him more critically on whether what he's attempting to do is working.
When we changed manager I wanted someone to come in and get us playing a recognisable style of play more than anything else. Get the team playing a modern brand of football and then go from there moving forward.
From the start of next season I'll start judging him more critically on whether what he's attempting to do is working.
It just seems excessive to me I suppose. Everything is fine in degrees.
Please stop making 5 or 6 changes to the lineup from game to game. We need consistency now, we need players to start forming partnerships.
Note that when we defend poorly and concede goals consistently for years under a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 system no one says, "think we should change to a wing-back system"
Note that when we defend poorly and concede goals sporadically for a month under a wing-back system everyone says, "Think we should change to 4 at the back again"
You need to listen to some of yourselves with your hypocritical takes. Never once willing to criticise good old four at the back the same way you would a 3 or 5 at the back system.
Why don't you just admit that you have a religious-like obsession with 4 at the back. You were the same clowns who refused to move on from 4-4-2 when everyone else already had.
Note that when we defend poorly and concede goals sporadically for a month under a wing-back system everyone says, "Think we should change to 4 at the back again"
You need to listen to some of yourselves with your hypocritical takes. Never once willing to criticise good old four at the back the same way you would a 3 or 5 at the back system.
Why don't you just admit that you have a religious-like obsession with 4 at the back. You were the same clowns who refused to move on from 4-4-2 when everyone else already had.
When you're rotating your squad so much it probably is. Think there's 7 teams that haven't won back to back games in the PL this season so far, it's one of those weird seasons where the middle of the PL is so condesnsed
Oh dear
Good lord. Just... what an absolute whopper of a comment.
It isn’t that hard as long as your goalkeeper doesn’t let in a shot straight at him, or your CB doesn’t watch a header bounce in instead of clearing it. Or your defender dives in giving away a pen for a no reason. He’s not been helped by some awful individual errors which have created platforms in the games for the rest of the squad to become nervous again.
Ok but which players? Because barely any of them are impressive.
I will support him 100% til signs that he is not good enough. so far I like what I see despite a horrible squad composition. Any manager will struggle with this team. however, he needs to rotate less to get some consistence. I know it is crazy fixtures during this time but he need to strike a balance.
People think we’d not concede from set pieces if the official line-up has 4 at the back
You aren’t getting an overnight fix with that squad it’s fecking ridiculous talking about removing one of the best young managers in Europe
There’s no quick fix here years of bad signings and off field decisions have cost us and will cost us for years to come. I mean we talk about needing new players but the ones we’re signing aren’t up to it, Zirkzee looks championship level we’re just going round in circles until one summer clicks and 3-4 signings make a genuine difference
There’s a good chance we never get back to winning the league we’re miles away
In the Everton game where we got 4, our XG was .73,
Worse?! Amorim has as many wins in 9 as Ten Hag managed in 14 matches. Amorim also has the disadvantage of having to do this while implementing a new formation and tactics.
It’s not been brilliant, but a clear improvement on Ten Hag, IMO.
Very true. One is where people actually look at the performances in the context of the mess our new manager came into. The other is where people just look at the results and take everything at face value.
Sorry I don't consider conceding set pieces constantly and watching a comedy of keeper errors to be "getting smashed". Conceding 25 shots like we did last year to relegation sides is getting smashed.
I brought it up repeatedly as well that Amorim wasn't going to be able to get great results with this team when he took over to start because our forward line is such absolute dogshit. You can do all of the tactics and coaching in the world but if Hojlund doesn't want to pass to a wide open Garnacho, or Bruno is going to miss sitters etc. then you aren't going to score goals and thus results will be poor. So yeah when what I figured might happen comes to fruition, I'm not going to suddenly act worried as if I'm watching a poor plan and tactics that are getting exposed repeatedly (I did that last season in September when watching ETH and said so at the time).
I still see dunces on here saying we looked better under Ruud when all of those results were just good finishing which just proves my point. Quality in front of goal can mask a lot of warts, and conversely a lack of it will make things look far worse than they are.
Exactly. It's incredible we spent over £600m with Ten Hag at the helm and we've just continually made the squad worse, how is that even possible?
I think the biggest crime is losing proven goal scorers and just not replacing them, at one time we had players like Greenwood, Ronaldo, Cavani, Martial etc who all knew where the back of the net was and could rescue us in a pinch. Absolutely no one knows how to score in this team.
Amorim's not even had a transfer window yet. A completely thankless task.
Yeah context is key. Everton weren’t as bad as that made out and two of our goals were from individual errors.
I’m pretty sure it was explained when Amorim came in that one of the reasons he was going to rotate so much was when we play two games a week because of recovery times if a player starts both games they basically don’t train so it was to allow him time on the training ground with the players.
Right now though with such poor wing backs we essentially are playing 5 at the back. We need improvements in various areas but the addition of 2 decent attack minded wing backs would be a massive upgrade.