Ross Barkley

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Bestie07 said:
Nope, we regularly take a hit while selling our players so that they can go to the clubs of their choice. Everton's very own Darron Gibson is an example. Also, it's okay to be a little peeved about him letting his contract run down and leave, some Everton fans were almost being as happy as Liverpool fans with his early struggles. Still feel their anger has more to do with his comments regarding Baines and Fellaini than him running down his contract and leaving.
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Mate, there's a difference between Manchester United foregoing a couple of mil and Everton losing out on 4-5(?)mil. Just look at their spending over the years to know what it means to them. I already said a lot of it is over the top but to expect them not to mind at all is ridiculous too. Couple of mil for them would go into improving their team, they are a cash strapped club.


Swaters16 said:
Ah, no we wouldn't. Managers come and go. That's it, player contracts are different and even then so what? Why the hell should you pay money to sign a manager from another club? That's ridiculous. If someone doesn't want to be at your club then move on. Stop having a cry about it.
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I dont even know where to begin with a reply to this.

"player contracts are different and even then so what?"

what is this supposed to even mean?

And why pay money to sign a manager from another club? Because he's their employee? What's ridiculous about paying to get a manager? You mean all manager contracts are just duds which should have no significance when another club comes along?

And its a bloody business, if someone doesnt want to be there anymore, you try and get a good price for him? Simply moving on is simply not an option in business.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Mate, there's a difference between Manchester United foregoing a couple of mil and Everton losing out on 4-5(?)mil. Just look at their spending over the years to know what it means to them. I already said a lot of it is over the top but to expect them not to mind at all is ridiculous too. Couple of mil for them would go into improving their team, they are a cash strapped club.
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They are Everton, a mid-table premier league club, not Barnsley. And David Moyes is one of the biggest reasons they are what they are, not Bill Kenwright or Roberto Martinez.
 
Varun_Utd said:
I dont even know where to begin with a reply to this.

"player contracts are different and even then so what?"

what is this supposed to even mean?

And why pay money to sign a manager from another club? Because he's their employee? What's ridiculous about paying to get a manager? You mean all manager contracts are just duds which should have no significance when another club comes along?

And its a bloody business, if someone doesnt want to be there anymore, you try and get a good price for him? Simply moving on is simply not an option in business.
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Actually I think you'll find in business you aren't going to be paid compensation for employees leaving very often because they'll choose to leave. They can resign or refuse a contract. If your contract is up and you don't want a new one, then how can anyone feel like they deserve money? They don't.
I think you'll find that if SAF had let his contract expire and then left to another club, people wouldn't be upset we didn't make any money from selling, they'd be upset their coach left. Which is the entire point, it's sour grapes from Everton fans having a cry about justice or something else ludicrous. When players let their contract expires you can feel as robbed as you like that you won't make any money off their sale but since they aren't an employee and they don't want to be at that club then you aren't owed anything.

In Australia almost all players leave on free transfers and it is annoying that we don't make any money on most players that leave, or we receive the paltry youth compensation that is way below a players worth but people accept it and move on because they understand that if someone doesn't want to be at your club then they can leave.
 
akash02 said:
I really find it bizarre. A lot of them seem to downright hate him
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The worst bit is the fawning over Martinez. He might do well, but Everton fans need to remember where they were when Moyes took over. Even if Martinez gets them into the top 4 (which I doubt) he's doing it with a squad and a club built by another man over many years.

Embarrasing that some fans are so bitter despite what he did for them. They should take it with good grace and accept that he's moved on. It was probably the right time anyway.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Ofcourse there is but Everton arent a Manchester United. For them, even 4-5mil is a great amount. Am not arguing against him giving them great service and the leeway it should get him but as he ran down his contract and left for nothing, ofcourse they'l be peeved about it. To simply claim contracts are meant to be honored and leaving on a free is acceptable just because its some other club that got fecked because of it is in bad taste. We'd be angry too if something similar happened to us.
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Your argument makes little sense - because he was out of contract. What if they'd wanted to move on to another manager, for whatever reason - no contract means no compensation for the manager. He's under no obligation to sign a new contract.
 
RedRover said:
The worst bit is the fawning over Martinez. He might do well, but Everton fans need to remember where they were when Moyes took over. Even if Martinez gets them into the top 4 (which I doubt) he's doing it with a squad and a club built by another man over many years.

Embarrasing that some fans are so bitter despite what he did for them. They should take it with good grace and accept that he's moved on. It was probably the right time anyway.
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They'll be calling for his head once Distin retires and Baines moves on and he has to actually build a defence and they start leaking goals.
 
Bestie07 said:
They'll be calling for his head once Distin retires and Baines moves on and he has to actually build a defence and they start leaking goals.
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Indeed. He plays pretty football - but it got Wigan relegated. Listening to him last year was unreal - trying to wring positives out of defeats in his post-match press conferences.

He may do well with a better squad - but I'll reserve judgment until he actually does soemthing. Amazes me how much of an easy ride he got from the press last year - simply because he's Spanish, articulate and friendly. The craic seems to be - he should've been near the bottom with the Wigan squad he had and limited funds, but it didnt stop Steve Bruce keeping them much higher up the table.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Mate, there's a difference between Manchester United foregoing a couple of mil and Everton losing out on 4-5(?)mil. Just look at their spending over the years to know what it means to them. I already said a lot of it is over the top but to expect them not to mind at all is ridiculous too. Couple of mil for them would go into improving their team, they are a cash strapped club.





I dont even know where to begin with a reply to this.

"player contracts are different and even then so what?"

what is this supposed to even mean?

And why pay money to sign a manager from another club? Because he's their employee? What's ridiculous about paying to get a manager? You mean all manager contracts are just duds which should have no significance when another club comes along?

And its a bloody business, if someone doesnt want to be there anymore, you try and get a good price for him? Simply moving on is simply not an option in business.
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Again - not sure what relevance this has. Moyes had a contract, it finished, he left. Had he been under contract they would have been fairly compensated.

They could have offered him a new deal last summer and got him tied down. They didnt, or if they did he didnt want to sign it. They have no roight to feel aggrieved in my opinion.
 
RedRover said:
Indeed. He plays pretty football - but it got Wigan relegated. Listening to him last year was unreal - trying to wring positives out of defeats in his post-match press conferences.

He may do well with a better squad - but I'll reserve judgment until he actually does soemthing. Amazes me how much of an easy ride he got from the press last year - simply because he's Spanish, articulate and friendly. The craic seems to be - he should've been near the bottom with the Wigan squad he had and limited funds, but it didnt stop Steve Bruce keeping them much higher up the table.
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I don't care one iota about the fawning over Martinez. He may do well there, he may not, but he has had a good start that's for sure. What I can't stand is that every time any Everton fan is bigging up Martinez, he has to take a dig at Moyes, someone even went as far as to say that Moyes was the one holding them back all these years :lol:, have a feeling they are in for a very rude awakening.
 
Bestie07 said:
I don't care one iota about the fawning over Martinez. He may do well there, he may not, but he has had a good start that's for sure. What I can't stand is that every time any Everton fan is bigging up Martinez, he has to take a dig at Moyes, someone even went as far as to say that Moyes was the one holding them back all these years :lol:, have a feeling they are in for a very rude awakening.
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Yeah I used to like Everton, I guess I still do, because they're a historic club and they aren't Liverpool. But I really want them to crash and burn these days.
 
RedRover said:
Again - not sure what relevance this has. Moyes had a contract, it finished, he left. Had he been under contract they would have been fairly compensated.

They could have offered him a new deal last summer and got him tied down. They didnt, or if they did he didnt want to sign it. They have no roight to feel aggrieved in my opinion.
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They are aggrieved because they believe he did not so that he could leave for free. They did want him to sign an extension, he didnt.
 
Swaters16 said:
Actually I think you'll find in business you aren't going to be paid compensation for employees leaving very often because they'll choose to leave. They can resign or refuse a contract. If your contract is up and you don't want a new one, then how can anyone feel like they deserve money? They don't.
I think you'll find that if SAF had let his contract expire and then left to another club, people wouldn't be upset we didn't make any money from selling, they'd be upset their coach left. Which is the entire point, it's sour grapes from Everton fans having a cry about justice or something else ludicrous. When players let their contract expires you can feel as robbed as you like that you won't make any money off their sale but since they aren't an employee and they don't want to be at that club then you aren't owed anything.

In Australia almost all players leave on free transfers and it is annoying that we don't make any money on most players that leave, or we receive the paltry youth compensation that is way below a players worth but people accept it and move on because they understand that if someone doesn't want to be at your club then they can leave.
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Dont think you've got why they're aggrieved. Its not because they feel they should get a compensation regardless of the fact that his contract was up. That would be stupid. They believe that Moyes knowingly refused to sign an extension so that he could leave for free which is why they are angry. Had he signed an extension, its not as if we wouldnt have gone for him because we'd need to pay Everton few millions, we still would have and they would have got some much needed cash.
 
Bestie07 said:
They are Everton, a mid-table premier league club, not Barnsley. And David Moyes is one of the biggest reasons they are what they are, not Bill Kenwright or Roberto Martinez.
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Yes, so? Everton's mid-table stature and their financial situation are exclusive of each other rather than a result of it which is one of the main reasons why Moyes's work there is so highly regarded.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Yes, so? Everton's mid-table stature and their financial situation are exclusive of each other rather than a result of it which is one of the main reasons why Moyes's work there is so highly regarded.
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The point is that they make enough to not have to be overly disappointed over not getting a relatively small amount (even by their financial standards) considering the situation he has left Everton in. They are just being small time if they are hurting over 2-3 million, equivalent of Arouna Kone's salary for warming the bench this season. He has done so much for that club that they should be able to look past that. They had much more right to be aggrieved by his Baines/Fellaini comments.
 
Bestie07 said:
The point is that they make enough to not have to be overly disappointed over not getting a relatively small amount (even by their financial standards) considering the situation he has left Everton in. They are just being small time if they are hurting over 2-3 million, equivalent of Arouna Kone's salary for warming the bench this season. He has done so much for that club that they should be able to look past that. They had much more right to be aggrieved by his Baines/Fellaini comments.
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Oh yes, am not denying that. What he has done for them should be enough to let it go. My initial comment was in response to someone saying it was just ridiculous and running down contracts to leave for free is perfectly fine as thats what contracts are for which is far too idealistic and not how things actually work.
 
Varun_Utd said:
They are aggrieved because they believe he did not so that he could leave for free. They did want him to sign an extension, he didnt.
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I dont recall it ever being made public that he had outright rejected a new deal, only that he was considering his options, although I may be wrong. It looked increasingly likely that he might move on anyway, even before Fergie retired.

Interesting to note that had Everton wanted to move on and go in a different direction he wouldnt have had any compensation either.

Its nonsense. He owed them nothing and deserved a chance at a bigger club. He's been loyal to Everton and arguably it was the right time for both parties.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Dont think you've got why they're aggrieved. Its not because they feel they should get a compensation regardless of the fact that his contract was up. That would be stupid. They believe that Moyes knowingly refused to sign an extension so that he could leave for free which is why they are angry. Had he signed an extension, its not as if we wouldnt have gone for him because we'd need to pay Everton few millions, we still would have and they would have got some much needed cash.
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Why should he sign a contract if he doesn't want to be at the club? What if he signed and missed out on coaching Manchester United? He'd be pissed and rightfully so. His contract was up, that's that.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Oh yes, am not denying that. What he has done for them should be enough to let it go. My initial comment was in response to someone saying it was just ridiculous and running down contracts to leave for free is perfectly fine as thats what contracts are for which is far too idealistic and not how things actually work.
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I think whoever said that is exactly right. Of course if he wanted to leave he would see out one contract and not sign another. That's what a contract is for. It would be absurd to think 'yes, I plan to leave next year, so of course I'll sign this four year contract extension.' It's not idealism, it's common sense.
 
Swaters16 said:
Why should he sign a contract if he doesn't want to be at the club? What if he signed and missed out on coaching Manchester United? He'd be pissed and rightfully so. His contract was up, that's that.
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He'd have missed out on coaching Manchester United? Why? Because we wouldnt pay Everton the compensation? Really think that could have happened?

Brightonian said:
I think whoever said that is exactly right. Of course if he wanted to leave he would see out one contract and not sign another. That's what a contract is for. It would be absurd to think 'yes, I plan to leave next year, so of course I'll sign this four year contract extension.' It's not idealism, it's common sense.
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Like Ronaldo signed an extension so that we could get top dollar for him out of respect for Sir Alex and the club and what they had done for him even though he had decided to leave already?

Moyes signing a couple year extension a season or so back wouldnt have stopped him from landing another job, all it would have done is get Everton some money which they could use.
 
Varun_Utd said:
And its a bloody business, if someone doesnt want to be there anymore, you try and get a good price for him? Simply moving on is simply not an option in business.
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If it is just business then he is well justified to let his contract run down. That's "just business."

No ways can Everton fans feel aggrieved over the fact that he left for free. No PL fans can be seriously be that dumb to be hard done by 4-5mn
 
Varun_Utd said:
He'd have missed out on coaching Manchester United? Why? Because we wouldnt pay Everton the compensation? Really think that could have happened?
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It's why I said what if. United aren't a club to randomly throw money about, especially not for a coach. Why should he take any chance at missing out on an opportunity like that?
There was no obligation for Moyes to sign a contract and there is no reason Everyon should feel aggrieved they didn't make money off of him.
 
Swaters16 said:
It's why I said what if. United aren't a club to randomly throw money about, especially not for a coach. Why should he take any chance at missing out on an opportunity like that?
There was no obligation for Moyes to sign a contract and there is no reason Everyon should feel aggrieved they didn't make money off of him.
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We'l just have to agree to disagree if you really believe United would have gone for someone else just because they'd need to pay Everton compensation for their manager.
 
Interval Level said:
If it is just business then he is well justified to let his contract run down. That's "just business."

No ways can Everton fans feel aggrieved over the fact that he left for free. No PL fans can be seriously be that dumb to be hard done by 4-5mn
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It isnt just a business though even though its a big part of football, is it?

And from what I've read, Everton's debts are around 50mil, a 5 mil compensation would be 10% of that, its a considerable sum for them unlike the likes of Man United. We've all seen how they operate in the transfer windows, 5mil for Everton is a considerable amount.
 
Varun_Utd said:
Dont think you've got why they're aggrieved. Its not because they feel they should get a compensation regardless of the fact that his contract was up. That would be stupid. They believe that Moyes knowingly refused to sign an extension so that he could leave for free which is why they are angry. Had he signed an extension, its not as if we wouldnt have gone for him because we'd need to pay Everton few millions, we still would have and they would have got some much needed cash.
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But, if true, that creates a negative atmosphere when we inevitably buy his contract out. Also, it's entirely Everton's fault for not tying him down to a new contract. If they've done something stupid in a business sense, and want someone else to blame, it's not our problem.

Summary: Everton were stupid not to get him to sign the new contract for more than 2 years. We capitalized, they were stupid.
 
Slevs said:
But, if true, that creates a negative atmosphere when we inevitably buy his contract out. Also, it's entirely Everton's fault for not tying him down to a new contract. If they've done something stupid in a business sense, and want someone else to blame, it's not our problem.

Summary: Everton were stupid not to get him to sign the new contract for more than 2 years. We capitalized, they were stupid.
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Or alternatively: Moyes refused to sign so that he could leave for free? Just like player contracts with low release clauses, the club doesnt want that there but the player insists, nothing they can do about it. Doesnt make them stupid just because they had to agree to it, does it?
 
Varun_Utd said:
Or alternatively: Moyes refused to sign so that he could leave for free? Just like player contracts with low release clauses, the club doesnt want that there but the player insists, nothing they can do about it. Doesnt make them stupid just because they had to agree to it, does it?
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Well if he wants to leave for free when his contractual obligations are over, on what grounds are Everton allowed to feel aggrieved about it? He's honored his contract and left for a better post.
 
Slevs said:
Well if he wants to leave for free when his contractual obligations are over, on what grounds are Everton allowed to feel aggrieved about it? He's honored his contract and left for a better post.
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Lets leave this here, Its already been discussed. Getting tedious.
 
stand_free said:
My best mate is an Evertonian and absolutely despises Moyes.
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Your best mate is an idiot then. Moyes was brilliant for Everton and is the main reason why they finished in the top half of Premier League almost every year.

From my posts here it is clear to see that I am not the biggest fan of Moyes, but it isn't even debatable that he was excellent at Everton and if they hate him they are bitter idiots. He is their biggest icon they had for many decades and they would be lucky if Martinez does anything remotely similar to what Moyes did for them.
 
Bebe said:
How does a clown like that even get promoted?


MODS OUT
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Ramshock said:
Why is he a clown? The guy he quoted quite obviously does not like Moyes. Would it be out of the realms of possibility that his everton mate doesnt exist? How did you get promoted is what I want to know.
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Count Orduck said:
Er, I'm pretty sure Bebe is agreeing with Abou, and referring to stand_free.
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Ramshock said:
:lol: fecking tithead sorry Bebe
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Bebe said:
Count is correct, I was agreeing with Aboutreika :lol:



No worries mate!
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:lol: How did you get promoted Ramshock is what I want to know.
 
RamboshockheadedPeter took the easy sign-up-and-you're-in option like a few others I might mention...
 
Revan said:
Your best mate is an idiot then. Moyes was brilliant for Everton and is the main reason why they finished in the top half of Premier League almost every year.

From my posts here it is clear to see that I am not the biggest fan of Moyes, but it isn't even debatable that he was excellent at Everton and if they hate him they are bitter idiots. He is their biggest icon they had for many decades and they would be lucky if Martinez does anything remotely similar to what Moyes did for them.
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A lot of Evertonians I know have grown to dislike Moyes. At first they wished him well at United, but after some of the comments in the press made by Moyes, they've grown to dislike him more and more to the point where many wish failure upon him.
 
BarneyLFC said:
A lot of Evertonians I know have grown to dislike Moyes. At first they wished him well at United, but after some of the comments in the press made by Moyes, they've grown to dislike him more and more to the point where many wish failure upon him.
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Yep. I don't wish him failure but i am disappointed with comments he has made. I know he's at a bigger club now but he could have made them in a way which wasn't disrespectful of us.
 
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