Ross Barkley

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finneh said:
I see this opinion that Moyes rates him highly quite a lot, but can't really see what it's based on? For my money a new manager has come in and trusted him and he is now repaying that faith, whereas I can't remember him playing very often under Moyes at all.

Maybe SilentWitness can provide a better insight into whether it is just a case of him coming of age naturally this season, or whether he had more to contribute last season and was overlooked?
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"Every club will want Ross Barkley because Ross Barkley is going to be an outstanding player," said the Scot.
 
Brwned said:
"Every club will want Ross Barkley because Ross Barkley is going to be an outstanding player," said the Scot.
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Almost every manager waxes lyrical about their young players; there's a difference between saying they're great and allowing them the game time to prove it. I wonder if Everton fans think Barkley should have been given a lot more game time last season?
 
Rozay said:
Defensively weak midfield. And Sturridge ahead of Welbeck every day.
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Wilshere and Cleverley work hard-enough, and in the absence of any good young holding midfielders coming through, that's easily the best England midfield under the age of 30 at the moment. Also, if we keep the ball, we'll have to do less defending... a crazy concept that Hodgson has yet to wrap his head around.

And Sturridge on the left is half as effective as Sturridge down the centre. Welbeck is a far better option, and his goal record/performances for England (mostly from outwide) have been excellent... so any call for Sturridge to displace Welbeck in that position is both a) done out of bias and b) wrong.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Wilshere and Cleverley work hard-enough, and in the absence of any good young holding midfielders coming through, that's easily the best England midfield under the age of 30 at the moment. Also, if we keep the ball, we'll have to do less defending... a crazy concept that Hodgson has yet to wrap his head around.

And Sturridge on the left is half as effective as Sturridge down the centre. Welbeck is a far better option, and his goal record/performances for England (mostly from outwide) have been excellent... so any call for Sturridge to displace Welbeck in that position is both a) done out of bias and b) wrong.
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I don't understand what bias you could be referring to, giving he has played for just about every rival team to us. Both players are strikers, but both can play wide. Sturridge is a better player than Welbeck in my view, hence me feeling he should be in any team ahead of him.
 
Rozay said:
I don't understand what bias you could be referring to, giving he has played for just about every rival team to us. Both players are strikers, but both can play wide. Sturridge is a better player than Welbeck in my view, hence me feeling he should be in any team ahead of him.
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You might be a 'Pool fan, I don't know... either way - there is no reasonable evidence that suggests that Sturridge is a better wide player than Welbeck - in fact, all the evidence actually points to the contrary.

Welbeck has probably been Englands best performer in 2013 and yet you'd rather see him dropped? For a player who rarely plays well out wide for his club? How much sense does that make?
 
Annihilate Now! said:
You might be a 'Pool fan, I don't know... either way - there is no reasonable evidence that suggests that Sturridge is a better wide player than Welbeck - in fact, all the evidence actually points to the contrary.

Welbeck has probably been Englands best performer in 2013 and yet you'd rather see him dropped? For a player who rarely plays well out wide for his club? How much sense does that make?
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As a centre-forward. The sense it makes comes from the bit that I can count on one hand how many goals he has scored for his club in about 15-months. I can't see how it can be as blasphemous as you are implying that somebody suggests Sturridge should be in a team ahead of Welbeck.
 
Good to see him get a call up and interestingly listed under midfielders when the form that has gotten him called up has came from him playing as #10.
 
finneh said:
Almost every manager waxes lyrical about their young players; there's a difference between saying they're great and allowing them the game time to prove it. I wonder if Everton fans think Barkley should have been given a lot more game time last season?
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Mate, he rates Barkley. Let's not try to find another reason to bash Moyes when he is probably the reason Barkley is where he is right now.

I remember Moyes giving Barkley plenty of chances, including a start against us in the league 1/2 years ago when Barkley had a bit of a disaster. He still left him on the pitch for the majority of the match anyway and showed just how much trust he will give youth players.
 
pocco said:
Mate, he rates Barkley. Let's not try to find another reason to bash Moyes when he is probably the reason Barkley is where he is right now.

I remember Moyes giving Barkley plenty of chances, including a start against us in the league 1/2 years ago when Barkley had a bit of a disaster. He still left him on the pitch for the majority of the match anyway and showed just how much trust he will give youth players.
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No-one is bashing Moyes, get the chip off your shoulder.

I'm merely asking the Everton fans whether they feel he would be starting every game under Moyes, or whether Martinez has fast tracked him. A fair question considering the big jump in the minutes he is getting for the first team.
 
finneh said:
No-one is bashing Moyes, get the chip off your shoulder.

I'm merely asking the Everton fans whether they feel he would be starting every game under Moyes, or whether Martinez has fast tracked him. A fair question considering the big jump in the minutes he is getting for the first team.
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So why did you choose to ignore Moyes' own words stating that he thinks Barkley is a top player?

My guess is that Moyes rates him but knows he's best left at Everton for the time being. Either that or he knows Everton are going to demand a ridiculous amount more than he's worth and is not interested at that price.
 
Rozay said:
Defensively weak midfield. And Sturridge ahead of Welbeck every day.
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Not really, Wilshere has bite and Barkley is a very strong player, he'd be an able ball winner. I actually forgot about Sturridge somehow, but i'd agree. I'd rather have Sturridge and Walcott in the wide positions, with Welbeck moving into Rooneys role when he retires/gets left out.
 
finneh said:
No-one is bashing Moyes, get the chip off your shoulder.

I'm merely asking the Everton fans whether they feel he would be starting every game under Moyes, or whether Martinez has fast tracked him. A fair question considering the big jump in the minutes he is getting for the first team.
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He wouldn't be starting every game with us.
 
Yeh it seems fairly clear than Martinez fast tracked Barkley. It's possible that he's come on so much this Summer that Moyes would have started him anyway but I'd say it's unlikely.
 
Januzaj is proof that Moyes is willing to play these youngsters.

Given the fact that he started Barkley in the league over a year ago, plus the fact that he's giving Januzaj chances whilst under 10x more pressure to get results, I'd say it's not too unlikely that he'd have played Barkley.

The big difference seems to be that Barkley has come back with much better physical aspects. He'd definitely have been given a chance at least.
 
Januzaj has around 90 mins in total this season compared to Barkley who has 538 mins in the league alone. Barkley would not be starting every game and finishing them, he'd be brought on for the end of games and such.
 
pocco said:
Januzaj is proof that Moyes is willing to play these youngsters.

Given the fact that he started Barkley in the league over a year ago, plus the fact that he's giving Januzaj chances whilst under 10x more pressure to get results, I'd say it's not too unlikely that he'd have played Barkley.

The big difference seems to be that Barkley has come back with much better physical aspects. He'd definitely have been given a chance at least.
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I don't think anyone is saying Moyes simply wouldn't have played Barkley, just perhaps not to the same extent. He's a first teamer under Martinez. He's started every league game I think.
 
finneh said:
Maybe SilentWitness can provide a better insight into whether it is just a case of him coming of age naturally this season, or whether he had more to contribute last season and was overlooked?
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He has definitely came of age this season due to the loans which helped him hugely, physically making him a beast and nurtured his driven attitude when he has the ball. I do think he deserved more of an opportunity than he was given last year though.
 
SilentWitness said:
Januzaj has around 90 mins in total this season compared to Barkley who has 538 mins in the league alone. Barkley would not be starting every game and finishing them, he'd be brought on for the end of games and such.
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Yeah, but firstly that is 90 minutes for Manchester United, where he has only just taken over. It's a bit harder to give youngsters a chance here than it is at Everton.

Secondly, Barkley is much, much further along physically, also making it easier to give him game time.

I can't say for certain that he would have started him as much, but you can't say that he definitely wouldn't have.
 
pocco said:
Yeah, but firstly that is 90 minutes for Manchester United, where he has only just taken over. It's a bit harder to give youngsters a chance here than it is at Everton.

Secondly, Barkley is much, much further along physically, also making it easier to give him game time.

I can't say for certain that he would have started him as much, but you can't say that he definitely wouldn't have.
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It's a daft argument anyway because it's all hypothetical. Personally speaking though, I'd rather take the word of an Everton fan that not.
 
All I want to know is would Everton have sold him for £27.5m?
 
The player we should have bought from Everton.
 
SilentWitness said:
He wouldn't be starting every game with us.
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SilentWitness said:
He has definitely came of age this season due to the loans which helped him hugely, physically making him a beast and nurtured his driven attitude when he has the ball. I do think he deserved more of an opportunity than he was given last year though.
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I presumed as much. Nice to see a talented English playing coming through so impressively either way.
 
I've seen a lot of talk about how Moyes apparently held Barkley back - could it not just be that he would have made his full breakthrough this season, irrespective of who the Everton manager was? This is just another in a long line of sticks with which to beat Moyes.
 
Had a good first half bar one stumble, played some nice balls from a slightly deeper area, shame Mirallas can't stay onside.
 
Devil may care said:
Had a good first half bar one stumble, played some nice balls from a slightly deeper area, shame Mirallas can't stay onside.
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A good half? Do you really think so? I think he's been pretty poor/OK overall today with a few excellent flashes.
 
Carl said:
A good half? Do you really think so? I think he's been pretty poor/OK overall today with a few excellent flashes.
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To be fair he's still learning his craft and he's played against some very tough opponents already this season and done solidly. Needs to work on getting himself more involved in tough games though, he needs to realise Everton aren't a big side so in big matches if he wants to get involved he needs to drop a little deeper, can't expect the supply to him to be regular.
 
Raees said:
To be fair he's still learning his craft and he's played against some very tough opponents already this season and done solidly. Needs to work on getting himself more involved in tough games though, he needs to realise Everton aren't a big side so in big matches if he wants to get involved he needs to drop a little deeper, can't expect the supply to him to be regular.
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Yes, but he's been poor today.
 
Raees said:
To be fair he's still learning his craft and he's played against some very tough opponents already this season and done solidly. Needs to work on getting himself more involved in tough games though, he needs to realise Everton aren't a big side so in big matches if he wants to get involved he needs to drop a little deeper, can't expect the supply to him to be regular.
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Totally agree. He's got an abundance of potential. He's just not had a good game today is all.
 
Bestie07 said:
Yes, but he's been poor today.
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Yes I agree but I think the main reason is his positioning, becomes a little invisible when his side isn't keeping the ball well. His first touch could also be tighter, he's strong but at times it is easy to deflect him away from goal as his touch is a tad inconsistent.
 
Carl said:
A good half? Do you really think so? I think he's been pretty poor/OK overall today with a few excellent flashes.
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He's a forward, he created a couple of really good chances in the first half and would be on two assists if Mirallas had been able to keep onside and finish and he created another good chance for him at the start of the second half which Mirallas botched with a poor first touch, he also popped the ball off well on a number of occasions in the first half. To me that's good 45 minutes for a 19 year old #10 away from home at one of the top teams in the league.

However other than the chance he created for Mirallas very early on he disappeared in the second half, completely anonymous.
 
Devil may care said:
He's a forward
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No he isn't. He's an attacking mid and has more responsibility in midfield than a forward.

Like I said, had a few flashes of quality but generally poor today.

Not that I'm having a go or anything. He's very young up against a quality side with powerful players away from home. Good experience for him.
 
Carl said:
No he isn't. He's an attacking mid and has more responsibility in midfield than a forward.

Like I said, had a few flashes of quality but generally poor today.

Not that I'm having a go or anything. He's very young up against a quality side with powerful players away from home. Good experience for him.
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He's playing more as a #10 from the games I've seen, maybe he needs to play it more like Rooney rather than as a classic #10. At any rate it certainly wasn't a great 90 minutes but I still felt he had a good first half and as you say, overall it's valuable experience for his development most importantly.
 
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