Rooney vs Nani

Who will be the better player in two years?


  • Total voters
    218
  • Poll closed .
I voted Nani.

But I'm not arguing Rooney has become a better player over the years. I also think he is more important to the team than Nani. I just think there isn't much in it right now and given added maturity over the next few years, Nani will be a better footballer. Rooney will still be more important given his central, pivotal role.

Oh and Nani will never be a Ronaldo. Best winger in the world. But not Ronaldo. Hate it when people expect that.
 
A football team set up to provide their striker with goals?

What madness is this?

No, I mean that in that team, Rooney was pretty much the sole player who was relied upon for goals, thus he got a very high % of all chances created by the team. Something Ronaldo did not have the luxury of seeing as he was competing with Rooney & Tevez, so in context of the discussion (Rooney can be/was as good as Ronaldo in that season) I believe it's wrong to say he was as good as Ronaldo in that season because Ronaldo could score that many without that luxury.

Let me guess though, I must be heavily biased or on a WUM according to you.
 
Actually, I think he's probably the only world class player you watch every single game he plays. And the only world class player whose under-par performances cause you so much stress and anxiety they end up burned into your memory.

When, for example, Drogba goes through a dip in form you don't see every poor performance and you don't feel so frustrated watching them it colours your perception of his next decent (albeit not outstanding) display to an extent where you think he's been shit again. A good example being how many people decided Rooney was shite against Bolton because they were still pissed off about the Newcastle game. He actually played ok in that game. Any Chelsea fan watching that game would have thought Rooney was running the show for us, as he almost always does, week in, week out.

Another major cause of bias in people's judgement of Rooney is all the baggage from his contract negotiations from last year. It's why so many people in this thead are banging on about Rooney's long dips in form, whilst glossing over the fact that - in this current season - Nani's had the more prolonged slump out of the two of them.

Post of the year.
 
I think that Nani is the better player overall, but I think Rooney is often pl

What I don't think he is 'great' at, is his touch, his short passing, his creativity and his dribbling.

His dribbling has certainly fallen off over the years.

With the others, it's more complicated. When he's on form, his touch is absolutely brilliant. What's unusual about him is that for an absolutely top class player his touch can look very heavy when he's off form. Pace Pogue's point below, which I very much agree with overall, I think other world greats rarely look so ropey bringing the ball down. Part of it, I've always thought, is that he tries to do so much with the ball - often he will bring it down and shift it away from his man in one move. Not a lot of players even try that. Fair enough that Messi and Iniesta do, and they don't feck it up as often... I'm not saying his touch is as good as theirs. But when he's on song it's sublime.

I also think he's highly creative, it's just that he doesn't often split the defence from the front in one pass. Similar to Paul Scholes in that respect. Both are superb at pulling the defence out of shape with clever, unexpected, accurate passes, but they only split the defence that way once in a while.

Actually, I think he's probably the only world class player you watch every single game he plays. And the only world class player whose under-par performances cause you so much stress and anxiety they end up burned into your memory.

When, for example, Drogba goes through a dip in form you don't see every poor performance and you don't feel so frustrated watching them it colours your perception of his next decent (albeit not outstanding) display to an extent where you think he's been shit again. A good example being how many people decided Rooney was shite against Bolton because they were still pissed off about the Newcastle game. He actually played ok in that game. Any Chelsea fan watching that game would have thought Rooney was running the show for us, as he almost always does, week in, week out.

Excellent point

I hear this a lot and I'm not sure I agree.

In fact, I'm convinced the memories people have of Rooney in his early United career as an all-consuming, explosive force of nature are massively biased by the excitement and hype around him at the time, as well as the way we always remember the good/exciting - and filter out the bad/boring - over time.

He has definitely grown as a player. I think it's undeniable that he's also lost something. Two things in fact - a yard of pace, and his long-range shooting.

The pace is surely the reason he doesn't dribble the ball much. He used to be able to barrel through two or three opponents, and he just doesn't anymore. As you say he's developed in other ways, but it is a real shame, because the ability to do that is rare and the space it opens up is fantastic.

The shooting I think is partly because he's become much more of a percentage player, so rarely tries it, or aims to place it. The odd thing is that when he does try it he rarely hits it right. Very strange to lose a technique he clearly had.

If there's one thing stopping him from becoming the all-time great he had the potential to be, I'd say it was the pace. In fact he's done very well to accommodate the change as well as he has. Not that he's slow, at all. But he used to be very quick.

I found this to be a very bizarre paragraph to say the least.

"sacrificed himself for this team more than any other player in a generation", what on Earth are you on about.

I think he means he played out of position for two or three seasons without complaint.
 
I found this to be a very bizarre paragraph to say the least.

"sacrificed himself for this team more than any other player in a generation", what on Earth are you on about.

And what does this mean "almost always finds, or attempts to find, the right pass, the right option for the team"?

What about when he tries those ridiculous chips is he doing this then?

Rooney like everyone else tries wrong options on plenty of occasions, if he didn't I doubt we'd be having this debate. A prime example would be the counter attack at the weekend, 4 on 3 and instead of slipping in Nani or Valencia he tried the "clever" ball to Welbeck and gave the ball straight back to Arsenal, a poor option, he does that as much as anyone.
The point about sacrifice was fairly obvious I thought. He'll play wherever he is needed, and he won't complain about it. The most compelling debate to be had about Rooney's career is whether he has been used fairly by Ferguson over the years. Personally I think it's made him a better player, but it has had an effect on his form over certain periods too.
 
When he's on form, his touch is absolutely brilliant. What's unusual about him is that for an absolutely top class player his touch can look very heavy when he's off form

Its usually within the first five minutes of a match that we can tell whether Rooney is 'on it' or not. If he is, he'll usually win the match for us. If not, he'll often be one of the best players on the pitch regardless.
 
My issue with Rooney is his bottom level is awful. If he doesn't sort it out it will stagnate him and he will never be as good as his talent deserves him to become.

Is that really any different from most players on his level though? Nani's bottom level is also awful as well. There's not much difference there.
 
Hehehe...'bottom level'

Its usually within the first five minutes of a match that we can tell whether Rooney is 'on it' or not. If he is, he'll usually win the match for us. If not, he'll often be one of the best players on the pitch regardless.

Agreed

Whatever happens, and whatever went on with the contract, if he stays for the rest of his career he'll be a Man united legend. Nani... well we'll see.
 
Actually, I think he's probably the only world class player you watch every single game he plays. And the only world class player whose under-par performances cause you so much stress and anxiety they end up burned into your memory.

When, for example, Drogba goes through a dip in form you don't see every poor performance and you don't feel so frustrated watching them it colours your perception of his next decent (albeit not outstanding) display to an extent where you think he's been shit again. A good example being how many people decided Rooney was shite against Bolton because they were still pissed off about the Newcastle game. He actually played ok in that game. Any Chelsea fan watching that game would have thought Rooney was running the show for us, as he almost always does, week in, week out.

Another major cause of bias in people's judgement of Rooney is all the baggage from his contract negotiations from last year. It's why so many people in this thead are banging on about Rooney's long dips in form, whilst glossing over the fact that - in this current season - Nani's had the more prolonged slump out of the two of them.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
 
Well, it certainly isn't the whole truth, I don't think the majority of people who have voted for Nani in here believe it's down to how they perceive Wayne, over his contract drama. To most, I'm sure that hasn't even entered the equation. The reason people bang on about dips in form, isn't because we are outraged at Wayne because of the contract negotiations, but because he's had a period in each season where he's gone missing.
 
Well, it certainly isn't the whole truth, I don't think the majority of people who have voted for Nani in here believe it's down to how they perceive Wayne, over his contract drama. To most, I'm sure that hasn't even entered the equation. The reason people bang on about dips in form, isn't because we are outraged at Wayne because of the contract negotiations, but because he's had a period in each season where he's gone missing.

Yep I agree, it's not about prejudice against Rooney or anything. His performances do vary a lot from game to game, which is why we still talk about him going in bursts of goals. Nani however has managed to maintain a much more consistent level for me.
 
I think people are also overlooing the fact that this poll says in 2 years... so really it's all speculation. Personally, I think we've seen what Wayne Rooney is capable of at his very best, and I don't think he will ever get above that level... I think what we all hope is that he can reach a point where he is at the level consistantly, as opposed to it varying on a game to game basis. I personally think he will find a consistancy, but it won't be at the high level that myself and other expect, rather a level below that. (but that's just my opinion)

Nani on the other hand, I don't think we've seen the very best off, and I can see him becoming an even better footballer then the player we saw at the beginning of last season... and one that effects games consistantly and on a regular basis.
 
Well, it certainly isn't the whole truth, I don't think the majority of people who have voted for Nani in here believe it's down to how they perceive Wayne, over his contract drama. To most, I'm sure that hasn't even entered the equation. The reason people bang on about dips in form, isn't because we are outraged at Wayne because of the contract negotiations, but because he's had a period in each season where he's gone missing.
Who doesn't suffer a dip in form from time to time?
 
Who doesn't suffer a dip in form from time to time?


Everyone does from time to time ... but Wayne's form has become erratic for the best part of a year or two now... to the point where now he's not even carrying any kind of form from game to game, and it's becoming a guessing game of which Wayne will turn up.
 
The difference between on form Wayne and dead Wayne is huge, I find that to be a bigger gulf than Nani, who maintains a better presence and offers more overall when he has a dip in form. Personally I find Nani a more consistent performer than Wayne, and don't think he goes missing to the extent he does, I know a lot of people disagree with that.
 
I think people are also overlooing the fact that this poll says in 2 years... so really it's all speculation. Personally, I think we've seen what Wayne Rooney is capable of at his very best, and I don't think he will ever get above that level... I think what we all hope is that he can reach a point where he is at the level consistantly, as opposed to it varying on a game to game basis. I personally think he will find a consistancy, but it won't be at the high level that myself and other expect, rather a level below that. (but that's just my opinion)

Nani on the other hand, I don't think we've seen the very best off, and I can see him becoming an even better footballer then the player we saw at the beginning of last season... and one that effects games consistantly and on a regular basis.

Yes but the title says 'Who will be the better player', not 'Who will step up to another level'.

As (I think?) you imply, for Rooney to be the better player of the two demands him consistently performing at his best (assuming Nani also performs at his current best). Whereas for Nani it involves stepping up another level.

In Rooney's case, I think that will take a largely injury-free season, with no major scandals, his head sorted, and the team not relying entirely on him.

In Nani's case, it will take someone opening up his skull and putting a football brain in it.

So I think the Rooney case is more likely.
 
I enjoy both players a lot but I think I choose Nani due to his more bizarre ransformation from a frustrating Quaresma MK II to a productive winger for both club and country. But Rooney has too made a fantastic transformation (remember his outbursts and unnecessary bookings?) so one could make the same argument for him.

It is a tough one and not at all as black and white as some make it out to be.
 
Everyone does from time to time ... but Wayne's form has become erratic for the best part of a year or two now... to the point where now he's not even carrying any kind of form from game to game, and it's becoming a guessing game of which Wayne will turn up.
My Rooney blinkers must be better than I thought they were then. I just see a player who is occasionally brilliant, occasionally poor, but overall our most important player.

We'd get £50-60m for him tomorrow.
 
Yes but the title says 'Who will be the better player', not 'Who will step up to another level'.

As (I think?) you imply, for Rooney to be the better player of the two demands him consistently performing at his best. Whereas for Nani it involves stepping up another level.

In Rooney's case, I think that will take a largely injury-free season, with no major scandals, his head sorted, and the team not relying entirely on him.

In Nani's case, it will take someone opening up his skull and putting a football brain in it.

So I think the Rooney case is more likely.
Agreed
 
Yes but the title says 'Who will be the better player', not 'Who will step up to another level'.

As (I think?) you imply, for Rooney to be the better player of the two demands him consistently performing at his best. Whereas for Nani it involves stepping up another level.

In Rooney's case, I think that will take a largely injury-free season, with no major scandals, his head sorted, and the team not relying entirely on him.

In Nani's case, it will take someone opening up his skull and putting a football brain in it.

So I think the Rooney case is more likely.

I think that's very harsh on nani. He definitely has a football brain. His top level right now isn't at rooneys level but it's not far off and I can see him reaching that a lot sooner than I can see Rooney overcoming his consistentcy issues.
 
Well, it certainly isn't the whole truth, I don't think the majority of people who have voted for Nani in here believe it's down to how they perceive Wayne, over his contract drama. To most, I'm sure that hasn't even entered the equation. The reason people bang on about dips in form, isn't because we are outraged at Wayne because of the contract negotiations, but because he's had a period in each season where he's gone missing.

I disagree, I'm all but certain much of the criticism Wayne gets stems from his cnutish behavior last season. There was clearly a change of tone in a lot of people's attitude towards him, which is fine as long as we're talking about the person or the potential United legend or whatever, but not the player. Case in point, all the retarded responses to City's rumored plans to bid 60 million for him a while back.

I'm not saying this applies to all of his critics, but, yeah, a fair few.
 
I disagree, I'm all but certain much of the criticism Wayne gets stems from his cnutish behavior last season. There was clearly a change of tone in a lot of people's attitude towards him, which is fine as long as we're talking about the person or the potential United legend or whatever, but not the player. Case in point, all the retarded responses to City's rumored plans to bid 60 million for him a while back.

I'm not saying this applies to all of his critics, but, yeah, a fair few.

Could it not also be true then that because Rooney has been our best player and talisman for most the time he's been here that some fans are willing to give him more leeway?
 
Give people respect, they can judge players ability irrespective of who that player is or what he has done in the past off the pitch, I'm pretty sure people could judge Rooney as a player two years ago, so I don't see why they've lost that ability all of a sudden.

It's condescending to say the least to try and boost your own opinion by saying the other opinion is because of bias. I question if people like that are here to debate or here to assert their own views and boost their ego's. What's the point in posting here in this debate if you think that 57% of peoples opinion is simply biased without any consideration into their thoughts?
 
I think that's very harsh on nani. He definitely has a football brain. His top level right now isn't at rooneys level but it's not far off and I can see him reaching that a lot sooner than I can see Rooney overcoming his consistentcy issues.

When he has time to think, he usually fecks it up. So yeah, he has a kind of football subconscious - how's that for you, Guybrush? ;)

Give people respect, they can judge players ability irrespective of who that player is or what he has done in the past off the pitch, I'm pretty sure people could judge Rooney as a player two years ago, so I don't see why they've lost that ability all of a sudden.

It's condescending to say the least to try and boost your own opinion by saying the other opinion is because of bias. I question if people like that are here to debate or here to assert their own views and boost their ego's. What's the point in posting here in this debate if you think that 57% of peoples opinion is simply biased without any consideration into their thoughts?

I don't think people's views are either a) entirely dominated by the contract, or b) dwelling in the real of pure emotionless reason. All our views about football are tinged one way or another by the fact that it's a passion. I don't think it's a big stretch to suggest that, when weighing up Rooney's overall contribution, his infuriating antics last year have some influence.
 
Give people respect, they can judge players ability irrespective of who that player is or what he has done in the past off the pitch, I'm pretty sure people could judge Rooney as a player two years ago, so I don't see why they've lost that ability all of a sudden.

It's condescending to say the least to try and boost your own opinion by saying the other opinion is because of bias. I question if people like that are here to debate or here to assert their own views and boost their ego's. What's the point in posting here in this debate if you think that 57% of peoples opinion is simply biased without any consideration into their thoughts?

Exactly.
 
I don't think nani messes it up when he has time to think, maybe in the past he tried to do to much but that's not really about a football brain as it is about hogging the ball, he's not a Walcott or Lennon. Nowadays he uses the ball very well and his link up play with evra is one of our best assets. More about maturity than football brain. And he's definitely matured a lot.
 
Why has this "bottom level" phrase suddenly been invented and used only on redcafe in threads about Wayne Rooney?

Stop it.
 
I disagree, I'm all but certain much of the criticism Wayne gets stems from his cnutish behavior last season.

Howa are you "all but certain"?

That's just a poor excuse for why people disagree with you. I criticized him long before then and don't blame him for being a tool in his contract dealings, Keano, Rio have all played hard ball too. I blame the agent more than I do Rooney and I certainly wouldn't be as petty as to let that cloud my judgement on him as a footballer, I am "all but certain" the same goes for most on here.
 
Give people respect, they can judge players ability irrespective of who that player is or what he has done in the past off the pitch, I'm pretty sure people could judge Rooney as a player two years ago, so I don't see why they've lost that ability all of a sudden.

It's condescending to say the least to try and boost your own opinion by saying the other opinion is because of bias. I question if people like that are here to debate or here to assert their own views and boost their ego's. What's the point in posting here in this debate if you think that 57% of peoples opinion is simply biased without any consideration into their thoughts?

post of the year.
 
Nani's decision making will improve with time and experience, so anytime now onwards really.
 
Re Rooney, I think this season typifies the standard Rooney season - world class in patches, but then hits a month (or more) long drought in which he has very little cutting edge but contributes lots and lots of handwork to help the team. Comes back into form for a while the tails off towards the end of the season.

This is the typical Rooney season, 09/10 being the exception that proves the rule
 
Re Rooney, I think this season typifies the standard Rooney season - world class in patches, but then hits a month (or more) long drought in which he has very little cutting edge but contributes lots and lots of handwork to help the team. Comes back into form for a while the tails off towards the end of the season.

This is the typical Rooney season, 09/10 being the exception that proves the rule

In 09/10 he also went through a longish dip in form. Unusually, it didn't translate into a goal drought. The overall pattern was much the same.

Of course, that overall pattern is the same for pretty much every footballer you care to mention. Especially when they're still a few years off their peak as a footballer (i.e. late 20s) Van Persie is doing his best to be an exception this season but it's still early days. The other obvious exception are "them two" in Spain but they can go through dips in form and keep on scoring shitloads of goals because they play for teams that are so much better than everyone else in the league it makes every second game (if not more) a total walkover.