Romeo Lavia | Chelsea bound?
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Not having him at that price and I really don't see the desperate need for him in a squad that needs to hit the ground running this season.
I'd rather we buy Amrabat who is currently a more complete and experienced player. We have Mainoo and Gore to fill the bright young prospect role already.
I'd rather we buy Amrabat who is currently a more complete and experienced player. We have Mainoo and Gore to fill the bright young prospect role already.
Seen this trick a million times. Nice try, Southampton/ Lavia’s agent.
Disagree with this. Lavia's ceiling is so much higher than Amrabat's that its a no brainer if funds are available you take the long term option. If Mainoo is as good as he looks there will always be room in the midfield for him and it won't be long before both Casemiro and Bruno need replacing leaving us with a midfield of Mount plus battle hardened versions of Lavia and Mainoo which sounds very appealing to me as its more press resistant and posessionally secure than our existing midfield - although we'd be losing creativity.
Agreed. Why would anyone choose a journeyman like Amrabat over a top prospect like Lavia? The job spec is cover, a young player with already good experience is a perfectly acceptable profile for the job. I’d say even the ideal scenario and more symptomatic of the succession planning of this well run club that I read so much about. It’s not an urgent first XI need, and we already have am experienced world class player in the starting role. Lavia is a better fit for the job than Amrabat, who is a weighed and measured player who had a good World Cup. He’d be a better fit for a loan signing to cover the first XI.
How much have you actually seen of this guy? He has played 29 senior games or so in his career. Did you watch Southampton instead of United or what?
Not saying I agree with this stance but honestly think Utd see Mainoo similar to Lavia (yes I know he's more experienced) hence they are targeting an older DLP profile in Amrabat but could be completely wrong
I don't think Lavia is ready to be a starter for a top team and from what I saw last season, he made quite a lot of mistakes in midfield. And eventhough he's got good ability on the ball as far as resisting pressure is concerned, his longer range passing isn't of the required standard as yet, and he'd be more of a project signing imo.
I think it would make much more sense to sign Amrabat and also look to complete the signing of the young midfielder from Antwerp (Arthur Vermeeren), who we've been linked to and looks to have a more rounded game as a deeper lying midfielder. If we send him back on loan to Antwerp it would make a lot of sense and save us a lot of money.
I think it would make much more sense to sign Amrabat and also look to complete the signing of the young midfielder from Antwerp (Arthur Vermeeren), who we've been linked to and looks to have a more rounded game as a deeper lying midfielder. If we send him back on loan to Antwerp it would make a lot of sense and save us a lot of money.
So with Fred and DvB being replaced my Amrabat. I wonder if a Mctominay sale would mean we would then look into buying Lavia. Honestly I think that would be a great move for us. It's odd for us to be linked with more midfielders unless we thought we were gonna get more. I wouldn't necessarily be against having Lavia play for Southampton until winter or next summer if it could drop the price a little and it would secure valuable playing time for him
Amrabat is currently the better player than Lavia and a much better passer of the ball. You can't always go for top prospects.
What makes you think Lavia is coming here to be back-up to Casemiro? The reason he is developing well is because he gets to play in the midfield every game. Coming here would block that trajectory and just delay his development.
Declan Rice at 19 was better and more important to West Ham than Lavia is to Southampton, and while he is a great prospect, the overhyping on here is just strange. Like Adnan already pointed out, he made quite a few mistakes and his passing just simply isn't good enough. He is not a Camavinga or Tchouameni level talent, which is what we should be aiming for if we're looking to replace Casemiro eventually.
Fred replacement is Mount. Amrabat takes Mctominay spot in deep midfield. Mainoo takes Dvb spot in the squad. I expect after this departures we go for Amrabat and a center back and call it a day.
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It’s not proof but it’s good evidence. Relative experience (as measured by the football observatory) is an excellent judge of where a player is relative to peers of a similar age. Lavia’s minutes and League profile put him at 2.12 RE for context for his position these were the other players (data correct as of 26/04/23):
- Arthur Vermeeren 2.52 (18)
- Lesley Ugochukwu 2.34 (19)
- Warren Zaïre-Emery 2.21 (17)
- Romeo Lavia 2.12 (19)
Vermeeren has a lot of promise and I’d be delighted if we went in for him. £50m for Lavia or ~£20-30m for Vermeeren.
I've not seen a lot of Amrabat but isn't the general consensus that he's much better on the ball than Lavia? If that is the case, I can definitely see the value in us pursuing a player like that because we're so weak at retaining the ball in midfield, particularly in big games. Lavia is good for a player of his age but I don't see the passing ability there (yet). If the choice is a good passer with average defensive ability versus a good defender with average passing ability, I'm choosing the former every time.
We already have a starter. If that was the job spec we have available, we’d probably be going after Tchouhameni or Rice this summer. For the job being recruited for, Lavia is perfect IMO. We are literally after an understudy. One of the best young DMs in the game sounds perfect for that role.
I hear that, but ultimately, if we didn’t have Casemiro I doubt most would want us to have Amrabat as first choice instead. So if the consensus is that he’s not quite good enough to be first choice here, then I think I’d be happier with a younger understudy who we agree most likely will be. Let that person develop and have a succession plan in place.
This was like Varane joining Real to understudy Pepe. Real could have got an older, established ‘good’ defender to be back up, who ‘makes fewer mistakes’, but also where they already know his ceiling is nothing special. They instead went for one of the most promising CBs in Varane, who had only played about 30 games or so at the time, and by the time Pepe left the transition was seamless and they simply carried on winning major trophies with Varane. Rodrygo is experiencing a similar transition into their team now.
Ultimately, it is the presence of Casemiro that allows us to go the route of Lavia. So what if he made mistakes at 19?! His potential is obvious and he will have a fairly low pressure role to improve organically over the next two years, while certainly being a player who can step in and play tomorrow when needed too. If we get Amrabat we get Amrabat. Good player. But if given a choice I’d prefer Lavia for sure.
I'd prefer Lavia to Amrabat personally, but if you consider price, age and experience, and our own young CM Mainoo, Amrabat might be a better fit.
It seems we are looking for a DM who can compete/rotate with Casemiro and capable to pass forward from the deep. Can Lavia do it in coming season or two？
I think our foundation of that DM role in not that solid for a young DM to play. It will take high risk when our only one DM is banned or injuried. Especially our team is not a drive smooth team yet.
If the idea was to use Amrabat as almost exclusive back-up to Casemiro, I might agree. From what I can tell the intention would be to use Amrabat as a rotational player with Casemiro against the smaller teams, but the option would still be there to play alongside him in the bigger games. Personally I don't think the ultra aggressive trio of Casemiro, Mount, Fernandes will work against most of the bigger sides, so an Amrabat would give us the flexibility to change approach in those games.
Lavia might make some sense if we have a lot of faith in Mainoo to deliver at a consistently high level this season. Even still, if the job spec is to deputise for Casemiro whilst we mould him, we might be able to find a more rounded or cheaper talent than Lavia to perform that role for the £50m it'd take to prise him away from Southampton.
But Lavia himself is already a PL standard player who can also rotate against smaller teams. He’s clearly good enough to play PL football, so starting him at home against Luton is not the risk it’s seemingly being implied to be. He can also come in in tough games alongside Casemiro. What has happened to us? This is how it works. This is how we develop players. There will be games Lavia can play, but also, every 90 mins he does play will also be an investment on our part in his and our future.
And I’m not sure how many better young options than Lavia we can find for sub-50m, especially anyone who is also ready to start tomorrow if Casemiro can’t. If we went and got a 19 year old for 20m, I imagine he simply won’t be as good/promising as Lavia, or if he is, then probably even less ready to deputise in the here and now. The appeal with Lavia is the combination of his potential but also current level. He’s already a good PL level player, and will improve with every week and every game here.
You're right. The ONLY reason I think United is after Amrabat rather than Lavia is the transfer fee.
And because Liverpool have done more to sign him like promising game time that he won't get at any other big club.
I remembered some of your comments and i like them(one of the best posters on this forum). The reason why we're going for Amrabat instead of Lavia is Glazer Apocalypse/Tragedy/Dystopia. Amrabat is cheaper - that's it.
Pretty sure United, Chelsea, and PSG are mentioned only so that the agent/Southampton can put more pressure on Liverpool to cough up the extra money.
We're only in for Amrabat and that too depends on player sales. Otherwise, I reckon we're done this window and ready to start the season with our new additions.
We're only in for Amrabat and that too depends on player sales. Otherwise, I reckon we're done this window and ready to start the season with our new additions.
I doubt it. It’s only logical that all the top clubs have an interest in Lavia. Long before Liverpool were even strongly linked Arsenal and Chelsea were considered favourites.
I'd say use the funds from Maguire/Scott to grab Lavia.
Opportunity to weaken a rival, he will have resale value, low salary, great understudy to Casemiro, can play with him in some games, solo in League Cup games etc.
Opportunity to weaken a rival, he will have resale value, low salary, great understudy to Casemiro, can play with him in some games, solo in League Cup games etc.
You consider Southampton a rival?
Being a PL player is not the same as playing in the midfield for United who aims to, at least, be top 4. As you say, starting him against Luton would not be the problem and we'd likely win regardless of who starts in that midfield. The problem is that, if we sign him, we will delay his development and he knows it. He is not going to start ahead of Casemiro, and if he does, we're going to have problems against a decent team. The reason we managed to have some sort of defensive control last season was because of Casemiro. He is elite when it comes to aerial duels, tackling, interceptions and positioning. Lavia is neither of these things, and is particularly bad aerially, which would be a problem in itself when partnered with Mount and Bruno in the midfield.
On paper, the signing would be exciting and he may have done a job for us in a few years, but we're not desperate for a CDM, and with Liverpool offering him a major role in the squad, there is no reason why he would come here to be back-up when he already has the experience of being a main player in a Premier League midfield. I'm going to repeat myself here, as most who are for this signing just bury their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't matter - we would block the progressive trajectory he's currently on. That would be bad for his own development, and a very expensive back-up. I'm sure when the time comes to actually replace Casemiro, there is another CDM available who is better than Lavia.
Gazump LFC!
At least it's better than some far-fetched logic that you'd weaken us if you signed a Southampton player
Is Lavia not your number one target for midfield?At least it's better than some far-fetched logic that you'd weaken us if you signed a Southampton player
While he is an intriguing prospect, I'm not so sure about the "much higher ceiling than Amrabat"? Could you elaborate as to why you think so? Is it because he's 19 years old playing in a PL midfield? I don't think he's shown enough yet to be considered an absolute elite prospect. Plenty of midfielders have played in Premier League midfields from a young age, but that doesn't mean they've gone on to be great players. I think it's important to remember that his physicality is one of the reasons he gets to play, but for most young players, physique is something that comes later.
Liverpool are in big trouble if all their hopes of solidifying their midfield are on this kid.
They're going to be cut through quite easily if they line up with him, Szoboszlai and MacAllister as their midfield three.
Even with lavia they are in big trouble and will need all 3 to stay fit all season. The Liverpool owners are crazy and in for a shock following their serious lack of transfer business.
Leaving you without your 1st choice #6, less than a week before the season? I think this weakens you, unless you magically have several other DMC targets up your sleeve?At least it's better than some far-fetched logic that you'd weaken us if you signed a Southampton player
That wasn't the implication, he's obviously not incapable of playing against the weaker teams in the league. However, I'm not convinced he's the guy to come in alongside Casemiro in the bigger games and make that difference right now. That's a much tougher task than standing out in a struggling Southampton team, even if Lavia has been impressive for a player of his age.
Again, it comes down to personal preference. If we're going to go big on a midfield talent, I'd rather we went big on one who is extremely comfortable on the ball and an accomplished passer. We don't have anybody with that profile in the squad as it stands. Lavia's best traits are defensive ones and if £50m is the asking price, I'd like to think we could sign somebody who enables us to become more of a possession oriented team who can mix it with the likes of City, Arsenal or even Brighton.
Wouldn’t really require magic, simply common sense. Of course they have alternative targets if they cannot get their first choice.
Which part of that sentence specifically have I intimated that I watch more of Southampton than I do of United?